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Heathrow Express Scanners
Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the
Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? Thanks -- The presence of this signature shows that this message has been scanned for misplaced apostrophes by the common sense scanner. However, some apostrophes may not be included where required due to boredom, gross negligence, budget cuts, incompetence, stupidity or just plain laziness. http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? Thanks Yesterday (12th) people passing along the platform were invited to take part in trials, there was no problem refusing, and the invites were few and far between- although a 'sniffer ' spaniel sat strategically placed between gaps in BTP, well within sniffing distance. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide?
"Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? Thanks |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Steve" wrote in message ... But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? "Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? Thanks Because he has nothing more important in his life to complaining and jump and down about. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, Steve wrote in
, seen in uk.railway: "Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'd object on principle. The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. [1] The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. [1] The money being wasted on the Paddington scheme could usefully pay for a number of BT Police officers for Cornwall [2], where ISTR there is only 1 (yes, one) officer allocated full-time. That would be a *real* improvement, IMO. [2] I don't work in Cornwall, so I'm not demanding benefits for "my" part of the railway at the expense of other areas. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Ross" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, Steve wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'd object on principle. The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. [1] The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. [1] The money being wasted on the Paddington scheme could usefully pay for a number of BT Police officers for Cornwall [2], where ISTR there is only 1 (yes, one) officer allocated full-time. That would be a *real* improvement, IMO. [2] I don't work in Cornwall, so I'm not demanding benefits for "my" part of the railway at the expense of other areas. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me How typical Ross , typical U.K attitude to pretty much everything......IMHO , from a fellow U.K citizen |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:13:29 GMT, "Just Wondering" Best place 2 put
it @stinkingfinger.com wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Ross" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, Steve wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'd object on principle. The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. [1] The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. [1] The money being wasted on the Paddington scheme could usefully pay for a number of BT Police officers for Cornwall [2], where ISTR there is only 1 (yes, one) officer allocated full-time. That would be a *real* improvement, IMO. [2] I don't work in Cornwall, so I'm not demanding benefits for "my" part of the railway at the expense of other areas. [...] How typical Ross , typical U.K attitude to pretty much everything......IMHO , from a fellow U.K citizen So what "typical UK attitude" is that, then? I'm not really sure which bit of my post you're referring to, given that you've quoted all of it rather than simply the bit you're commenting on. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me |
Heathrow Express Scanners
The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. Sure is... Access to the same platforms via the bridge area was entirely un-monitored- not even a 'security ' bod showing a presence, but seven BTP +dog standing around near the 'scanner'. The invite to a passing body I witnessed was along the lines of 'would you like to help us', and could have been an invite to sample a glass of wine.. Lets face it , if every entrance had one of those thingies and it became obligatory to pass thru, then if a terrorist really want access , he would catch a train at Acton Mailnline or somewhere- or an underground station....that's without even considering the merits of whether terrorists see this as a potential target. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Ross" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:13:29 GMT, "Just Wondering" Best place 2 put it @stinkingfinger.com wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Ross" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, Steve wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Joe Patrick" wrote in message .uk... Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'd object on principle. The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. [1] The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. [1] The money being wasted on the Paddington scheme could usefully pay for a number of BT Police officers for Cornwall [2], where ISTR there is only 1 (yes, one) officer allocated full-time. That would be a *real* improvement, IMO. [2] I don't work in Cornwall, so I'm not demanding benefits for "my" part of the railway at the expense of other areas. [...] How typical Ross , typical U.K attitude to pretty much everything......IMHO , from a fellow U.K citizen So what "typical UK attitude" is that, then? I'm not really sure which bit of my post you're referring to, given that you've quoted all of it rather than simply the bit you're commenting on. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me If they had done nothing , you would complain , know they have done something you complain , how typical. I guesss you'll be the poor fellow the police will be dragging away and scaring members of the public , due to your unwillness to cooperate and help make the station a safer place , Ross the Rebel. Your a real Man., in fact your the sort of man that complains about his tax bills , but would be willing to waster tax payers money by not just doing your bit .Tut Tut. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Steve wrote:
But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'm not usually the person to say things about things like this. I'm all for ID cards and the like, but the fact remains that train travel should always remain an "open" thing, not to mention the embarassment of being the one chosen amongst a group of friends. IMO, if this was rolled out full time, surely it would pose a greater safety risk, whereas before, everyone was dispersed around the station and trains, HEx travellers will be more concentrated. -- The presence of this signature shows that this message has been scanned for misplaced apostrophes by the common sense scanner. However, some apostrophes may not be included where required due to boredom, gross negligence, budget cuts, incompetence, stupidity or just plain laziness. http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Steve wrote:
But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? Not everybody likes to show themselves naked to strangers. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:21:57 GMT, D.S.B. wrote in
, seen in uk.railway, quoting me: The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. Sure is... Access to the same platforms via the bridge area was entirely un-monitored- not even a 'security ' bod showing a presence, but seven BTP +dog standing around near the 'scanner'. Quite. I'd rather those 7 BTP officers were deployed elsewhere on the system where their presence would be of greater value. [...] Lets face it , if every entrance had one of those thingies and it became obligatory to pass thru, then if a terrorist really want access , he would catch a train at Acton Mailnline or somewhere- or an underground station....that's without even considering the merits of whether terrorists see this as a potential target. I think that, having attacked air in the US and subway, mainline rail and bus here, the next attack (God forfend there be one, but I suspect there will be sooner or later) will be on an entirely unrelated target. Somewhere crowded, perhaps, for maximum effect, but there are plenty of crowded places which are no transport-related. ISTR terrorist attacks in Israel on discos, cafés and shops; if they can do it there, they can carry out such attacks much more easily here. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:24:15 GMT, "Just Wondering" Best place 2 put
it @stinkingfinger.com wrote in , seen in uk.railway: "Ross" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:13:29 GMT, "Just Wondering" Best place 2 put it @stinkingfinger.com wrote: "Ross" wrote... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, Steve wrote: "Joe Patrick" wrote... I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'd object on principle. The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. [1] The Paddington scanner is an example of Being Seen To Do Something whilst not actually doing anything worth speaking of, and I want nothing to do with that sort of official stupidity. [...] How typical Ross , typical U.K attitude to pretty much everything......IMHO, from a fellow U.K citizen So what "typical UK attitude" is that, then? I'm not really sure which bit of my post you're referring to, given that you've quoted all of it rather than simply the bit you're commenting on. If they had done nothing , you would complain , know they have done something you complain , how typical. OK. I take it from that comment that you are not responding to the points made in either of the footnotes you quoted (and you're definitely not commenting on my .sig, despite twice failing to delete it), nor are you responding to my statement that I wish to see real security improvements. In point of fact, as someone who works on the railway and as I made clear in my original post, I'm rather more interested in practical security being put in place. Y'know, the sort of security which actually *makes a difference*. Random scanning of willing volunteers is most definitely not that sort of security. I guesss you'll be the poor fellow the police will be dragging away and scaring members of the public , due to your unwillness to cooperate and help make the station a safer place , Ross the Rebel. 'S'OK, if they drag me away they'll just have to deal with a lot of unhappy people demanding to know why they've taken the driver off their train. And an unhappy train company. And an extremely unhappy network operator. Oh, and given that we're talking a major London station, they'll also quickly be dealing with a large media presence who won't be slow to tell the world how stupid the "security services" are being. Meanwhile, I'll still be being paid. Your a real Man., in fact your the sort of man that complains about his tax bills , but would be willing to waster tax payers money by not just doing your bit .Tut Tut. Ah, abuse. The last resort of someone who knows he has no real argument. Never mind, someone will take you seriously. It's just not going to be me. In the meantime, you will find your bridge off thataway --- HTH, HAND. -- Ross, in Lincoln, being cynical or sarcastic, as ever. Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me. Demonstration of poor photography at http://ross.photobook.org.uk AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for European charters gripped by me |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Steve" wrote in message
... But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? If you think that gimmicks and a waste of money like that is going to make you safer, then you need to be fleeced of even more money, to pay the clever people fleecing you. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Just Wondering" Best place 2 put it @stinkingfinger.com wrote in message
... If they had done nothing , you would complain , know they have done something you complain , how typical. I guesss you'll be the poor fellow the police will be dragging away and scaring members of the public , due to your unwillness to cooperate and help make the station a safer place , Ross the Rebel. Your a real Man., in fact your the sort of man that complains about his tax bills , but would be willing to waster tax payers money by not just doing your bit .Tut Tut. Er, how far did you get in your schooling? Let's just say you failed the test and need to re-write your exams. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Marc Brett" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:14:40 -0000, "Steve" wrote: But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? Sorry, but I don't particularly want a stranger operating a machine which can image the nipples and genitals of my 14 year old son or daughter. Well, if the machines are THAT good perhaps I should go as the NHS have me down as a very low priority on there list. KW |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Just Wondering wrote:
If they had done nothing , you would complain , know they have done something you complain , how typical. Well sensible people would demand that 'they' did something effective and useful and complain if they didn't. I guesss you'll be the poor fellow the police will be dragging away and scaring members of the public , due to your unwillness to cooperate and help make the station a safer place , Ross the Rebel. Your a real Man., in fact your the sort of man that complains about his tax bills , but would be willing to waster tax payers money by not just doing your bit .Tut Tut. Ho hum. Another brainless turd to killfile. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In uk.legal Joe Patrick wrote:
Steve wrote: But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? I'm not usually the person to say things about things like this. I'm all for ID cards and the like, but the fact remains that train travel should always remain an "open" thing, not to mention the embarassment of being the one chosen amongst a group of friends. It does not in America where the Amtrak website specifically mentions that ID is required for most of their trains. I can imagine the same thing happening in the UK... I notice at Birmingham New Street that a small army of people are now employed to check tickets at the exits/entrances although they only glance at them without any detailed investigation. Axel |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:13:29 +0000, Just Wondering wrote:
"Ross" wrote in message ... [1] The money being wasted on the Paddington scheme could usefully pay for a number of BT Police officers for Cornwall [2], where ISTR there is only 1 (yes, one) officer allocated full-time. That would be a *real* improvement, IMO. [2] I don't work in Cornwall, so I'm not demanding benefits for "my" part of the railway at the expense of other areas. How typical Ross , typical U.K attitude to pretty much everything......IMHO, from a fellow U.K citizen I wish! If more people were like Ross we'd have a chance! |
Heathrow Express Scanners
wrote in message .. . "Steve" wrote in message ... But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? If you think that gimmicks and a waste of money like that is going to make you safer, then you need to be fleeced of even more money, to pay the clever people fleecing you. These scanners are a complete waste of time and money! What are they trying to achieve? Prevent bombers getting to the airport? Ah ... No - lots of other ways of getting there. Prevent bombers getting on planes Ah ... No - see above plus airport security measures. Prevent a train from being blown up? Ah .... No - see assorted movies displaying the talents of the French resistance in WW2 blowing up & derailing trains; or read a good book on the subject. Doing it this way also allows the bomber to live and perform the task again. Show the population we take terrorism seriously and will try everything the press think of to prove it? Ah .... Yes! Governments of all persuasions are good at this sort of thing! It diverts attention from the real business of anti-terrorism which is intelligence gathering and analysis; acting on the results, possibly in ways the Government of the day wouldn't want us to know about. Roger C PS Identity cards won't help in the war against terrorism either. Your good terrorist will either forge a good one or ignore them. The really clever terrorists at the top of the tree will be the first to get an ID card of course. They will behave impeccably on the surface whilst co-ordinating the efforts of the cannon fodder below them. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : Sorry, but I don't particularly want a stranger operating a machine which can image the nipples and genitals of my 14 year old son or daughter. These people should be on the sex offenders register, not hailed as the guardians of our safety. rolls eyes |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In uk.railway Steve twisted the electrons to say:
But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? One assumes you always use postcards rather than letters when you send correspondence? Or do you use letters inside envelopes, thus clearly indicating that you have something to hide? -- These opinions might not even be mine ... Let alone connected with my employer ... |
Heathrow Express Scanners
If they had done nothing , you would complain , know they have done something you complain , how typical. I guesss you'll be the poor fellow the police will be dragging away and scaring members of the public , due to your unwillness to cooperate and help make the station a safer place , Ross the Rebel. Your a real Man., in fact your the sort of man that complains about his tax bills , but would be willing to waster tax payers money by not just doing your bit .Tut Tut. Ross's point was well made. What is happening at Paddington is just posturing and will do nothing for security. It clearly is not universally applicable. The whole thing is a waste of time and money and would be better spent elsewhere. Peter Fox |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Roger wrote:
wrote in message .. . "Steve" wrote in message ... But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? If you think that gimmicks and a waste of money like that is going to make you safer, then you need to be fleeced of even more money, to pay the clever people fleecing you. These scanners are a complete waste of time and money! What are they trying to achieve? Prevent bombers getting to the airport? Ah ... No - lots of other ways of getting there. Prevent bombers getting on planes Ah ... No - see above plus airport security measures. Prevent a train from being blown up? Ah .... No - see assorted movies displaying the talents of the French resistance in WW2 blowing up & derailing trains; or read a good book on the subject. Doing it this way also allows the bomber to live and perform the task again. Show the population we take terrorism seriously and will try everything the press think of to prove it? Ah .... Yes! Governments of all persuasions are good at this sort of thing! It diverts attention from the real business of anti-terrorism which is intelligence gathering and analysis; acting on the results, possibly in ways the Government of the day wouldn't want us to know about. Roger C PS Identity cards won't help in the war against terrorism either. Your good terrorist will either forge a good one or ignore them. The really clever terrorists at the top of the tree will be the first to get an ID card of course. They will behave impeccably on the surface whilst co-ordinating the efforts of the cannon fodder below them. Oh, for Heaven's Sake - does *anyone* really think ID cards are anything to do with anti-terrorism? The real motives are much more basic - better state control and monitoring of the *legitimate* population. As you say, anti-terrorism physical defences don't stop terrorism. But, boy, they do deflect it to different targets. ISTR, when military bases increased security, the bombs were planted in the married quarters area outside the fence. So, we have Parliament ringed with concrete blocks and Tony telling us to continue life as normal - as he travels in an armoured limo with police escort whilst his family live in the Downing Street Fortress. No one really thought that all those measures were actually to reduce the chances of the rest of us being targets? Quite the opposite - without those measures the bombers might have had a go at Tony and Cronies instead of the unprotected tubes and buses.. If mad-ducks disease breaks out - no one thinks that movement restrictions will be ruthlessly applied to Tony & Co, do they? Or that they won't be first inline for whatever jabs there are? Go to any tinpot little dicatorship and the pattern is the same. You can't even wave a pointed stick within a mile of the Presidential Palace - but blow up who you fancy in the market place. How did it come to this? ISTR at the height of one particular high terrorist alert, a certain PM made a point of walking to work.. It seems an eternity ago, now. -- Sue |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In message , Steve
writes But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? Isn't this the argument behind every police state? -- Mike_B |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:30:56 +0000, Adrian wrote:
Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Sorry, but I don't particularly want a stranger operating a machine which can image the nipples and genitals of my 14 year old son or daughter. These people should be on the sex offenders register, not hailed as the guardians of our safety. rolls eyes Oh dear. I agree with Marc, I do NOT want some low paid bloke looking at my, my wife's or my children's skin outline. If these people are anything like your average low paid civil servant (who I have worked with) or a security guard watching CCTV monitors, I *know* full well they will be laughing their arses off like monkeys at anything remotely amusing. Possibly keeping a few images for the Christmas party too. It is quite possible that there will be a few perverts getting oddly inspired jollies from it too. Look at this: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...pi_scan_lg.jpg and http://www.qinetiq.com/home/newsroom..._MMW_knife.jpg Your wife got nice tits? Now you can share them with the guards. Got a beer gut or a big arse? Then cheer up some people you don't know with a cheap laugh. Your daughter hot? Well... Sorry for the crudity but it is a salient point! And Ross is correct IMO, this is money wasted. The terrorists will just blow up something else somewhere else. More coppers on the ground would be a far better use of resources, because when they're not looking out for nutters, they'll be nicking chavs who damage trains, or busting pickpockets. How did we get through decades or IRA bombing without this nonsense? We should all be dead by now. Tim |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In uk.legal D.S.B. wrote:
I notice at Birmingham New Street that a small army of people are now employed to check tickets at the exits/entrances although they only glance at them without any detailed investigation. Also applies at most 'Virgin Trains' stations- like Euston, where they just clip anything you put in front of them, particularly if there's a rush. Euston? I have seen ticket checks for local journeys. But not for entering/exiting the Birmingham/Wolverhampton train. At KIng's Cross it was a different matter... but then I was commuting to Edinburgh usually that station it would have proved platform ticket checks impossible. Bizarre, I remember a journey to Germany which I took... no problem with having a drink at Waverly at 7am... rather different in Newcastle at 10 am. Axel |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In uk.railway Mike_B twisted the electrons to say:
In message , Steve writes But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? Isn't this the argument behind every police state? Pretty much ... -- People should not be afraid of their governments, Governments should be afraid of their people ... |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:10:38 +0000 someone who may be Ross
wrote this:- The principle being that I want to see real security improvements on the railway I work on, rather than highly visible "playing at security" games. You're sounding like me again:-) -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:14:30 +0000 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:- I agree with Marc, I do NOT want some low paid bloke looking at my, my wife's or my children's skin outline. If these people are anything like your average low paid civil servant (who I have worked with) or a security guard watching CCTV monitors, I *know* full well they will be laughing their arses off like monkeys at anything remotely amusing. Possibly keeping a few images for the Christmas party too. Indeed. Some CCTV bods have just been prosecuted for using their cameras to spy on a woman. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Heathrow Express Scanners
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:42:38 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Fox"
wrote: Ross's point was well made. What is happening at Paddington is just posturing and will do nothing for security. It clearly is not universally applicable. The whole thing is a waste of time and money and would be better spent elsewhere. As the Paddington excercise is allegedly just a test, could the whole idea be to prove that it doesn't really help? That way TPTB can say "we tried to do something, but we found it doesn't work in the tests", and thus shut up anyone who calls for Commondale to be supplied with x-ray machines or guard dogs to be deployed to watch for bin Laden at Brigg? -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In uk.legal Tim S wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:30:56 +0000, Adrian wrote: Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Sorry, but I don't particularly want a stranger operating a machine which can image the nipples and genitals of my 14 year old son or daughter. These people should be on the sex offenders register, not hailed as the guardians of our safety. snip I agree with Marc, I do NOT want some low paid bloke looking at my, my wife's or my children's skin outline. If these people are anything like your average low paid civil servant (who I have worked with) or a security guard watching CCTV monitors, I *know* full well they will be laughing their arses off like monkeys at anything remotely amusing. Possibly keeping a few images for the Christmas party too. snip http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...pi_scan_lg.jpg It's not especially hard - if there is a 3D reasonable image, to go from that, to a fairly decent nude image, based on facial and hand skin tone. Of course, you won't get exact blemishes, or hair colour, but it'll be pretty close. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Ian Stirling wrote:
In uk.legal Tim S wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:30:56 +0000, Adrian wrote: Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Sorry, but I don't particularly want a stranger operating a machine which can image the nipples and genitals of my 14 year old son or daughter. These people should be on the sex offenders register, not hailed as the guardians of our safety. snip I agree with Marc, I do NOT want some low paid bloke looking at my, my wife's or my children's skin outline. If these people are anything like your average low paid civil servant (who I have worked with) or a security guard watching CCTV monitors, I *know* full well they will be laughing their arses off like monkeys at anything remotely amusing. Possibly keeping a few images for the Christmas party too. snip http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...pi_scan_lg.jpg It's not especially hard - if there is a 3D reasonable image, to go from that, to a fairly decent nude image, based on facial and hand skin tone. Of course, you won't get exact blemishes, or hair colour, but it'll be pretty close. Actually, it would open whole new lines of merchandising - eg "modesty" panties and bras with woven-in gold/silver wire. The wire could be woven into words, such as, "If you can read this, you should be ashamed of yourself"..Or other wording that a lady wouldn't mention.. One argument I've heard is, "Why worry?, you show more on a beach". Missing the points that many don't and that those that do are doing so voluntarily. My points are my business and no one else's ;) -- Sue |
Heathrow Express Scanners
Roger wrote: wrote in message .. . "Steve" wrote in message ... But, why would you want to object if you have nothing to hide? If you think that gimmicks and a waste of money like that is going to make you safer, then you need to be fleeced of even more money, to pay the clever people fleecing you. These scanners are a complete waste of time and money! What are they trying to achieve? They are trying them out in a "dirty" environment where there are large variations in temperature, humidity,airborne particulates and electrical interference. Things not present in an airport departure lounge. If technical bits work out, then there is the possibility of employing them on the exterior of airport buildings, and various public transport venues that are more easily "sealable". Paddington was chosen because it has a lot of diesel trains using it. It is no more than a technical trial. Amazing how a simple trial of a bit of kit exercises so many IQ's in trying to make out that it is an attempt to seal off Heathrow or interfere with civil liberties! Nothing is 100% effective, but if this works scanning can be moved from the interior of buildings to the exterior. At the moment anyone can walk into an airport terminal, join the huge queues without a single check. The equipment previously not being capable of coping with the conditions mentioned above. The thinking behind it is brutally simple, a bomb outside an enclosed space is mostly less effective than inside when there are large numbers of people about. |
Heathrow Express Scanners
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Heathrow Express Scanners
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:53:22 GMT, "D.S.B." wrote:
Owing to the fact that Z1-6 travelcard holders will be able to use the Heathrow Express tomorrow, at no extra cost, I have decided to take a trip on this service. I read in the media earlier in the week, that trials of a scanner system, similar to the system used in scairports started this week, with people randomly selected to be scanned. If I happen to be the "unlucky" one, can I request that I am not scanned, or can they deny me the right to travel? Thanks Yesterday (12th) people passing along the platform were invited to take part in trials, there was no problem refusing, and the invites were few and far between- although a 'sniffer ' spaniel sat strategically placed between gaps in BTP, well within sniffing distance. Passing through Paddington 10-11am today (Sunday), the scanners were closed and unmanned. Nicholas |
Heathrow Express Scanners
"Ross" wrote in message
... But that's not as "sexy" as new, cutting-edge equipment, so wouldn't have appealed to either our politicians or the senior security bods. Practical answers never do, not when there's a chance of playing with "sexy" new toys. -( The company involved, wouldn't be a Labour Party donor, would it? |
Heathrow Express Scanners
In article ,
Ross wrote: On 15 Jan 2006 04:00:45 -0800, wrote in .com, seen in uk.railway: At the moment anyone can walk into an airport terminal, join the huge queues without a single check. The equipment previously not being capable of coping with the conditions mentioned above. The Turkish manage to seal their airport terminals very effectively by simply having the security check at the terminal building's entrance doors. This was also done at Aldergrove in the '80s. -- RIP Morph (1977-2005) |
Heathrow Express Scanners
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Heathrow Express Scanners
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