Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

So, Kentish Town station is closed again due to faulty escalators.

BBC London Travel News stated "Tickets are being accepted on local buses".

How is this handled for anyone who has Oyster pre-pay, and doesn't have a
"ticket"? Will they be charged for an "extra" journey by bus?

--
MatSav

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

So, Kentish Town station is closed again due to faulty escalators.

BBC London Travel News stated "Tickets are being accepted on local buses".

How is this handled for anyone who has Oyster pre-pay, and doesn't have a
"ticket"? Will they be charged for an "extra" journey by bus?

Email or call (I prefer email) the Oyster helpdesk and explain the extra cost you
have incurred and they will refund you.

If you will definitely pass through the gates of a specific tube station in the next
7 days tell them this and they will send the refund electronically to the gate for
your card to pick up, otherwise you have to cash in a cheque or voucher.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

TKD wrote:
So, Kentish Town station is closed again due to faulty escalators.

BBC London Travel News stated "Tickets are being accepted on local buses".

How is this handled for anyone who has Oyster pre-pay, and doesn't have a
"ticket"? Will they be charged for an "extra" journey by bus?

Email or call (I prefer email) the Oyster helpdesk and explain the extra cost you
have incurred and they will refund you.

If you will definitely pass through the gates of a specific tube station in the next
7 days tell them this and they will send the refund electronically to the gate for
your card to pick up, otherwise you have to cash in a cheque or voucher.

Re MatSav's point - Oyster is (IMO) a great system (though many will
disagree) but as you rightly point out it can't cope with complexities
such as this. If you were to use Oyster Pre Pay on a local bus to get
to another Northern line station you'll be charged a bus fare alongside
your tube fare. It would be immensely complicated (nigh on impossible)
to code the system so this didn't happen cue a torrent of people
explaining how this would actually be very simple.

This situation will arise whenever "tickets are being accepted on local
buses" for whatever reason. It could be said that, thinking in contract
terms, if LU sells you a paper ticket for a journey from Waterloo to
Kentish Town [1], they've made a promise to get you there by one means
or another, which they do by making your ticket valid on local buses.
However if one is using Oyster Pre Pay when you enter the tube network
you haven't actually been sold a ticket to a specific destination by
LU, thus they have no obligation to get you there, therefore you'll pay
extra for the bus journey.

However all of the above is mere conjecture. What I can say with some
certainty is that (in most situations) you'd still pay less on Pre Pay
for a tube journey plus a bus journey than if you bought a paper single
ticket for your tube journey.


[1] Before anyone says anything, I know LU don't actually sell point to
point paper tickets but use a zonal system, but nontheless I think the
principle stands.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On 29 Jan 2006 07:31:47 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

TKD wrote:
So, Kentish Town station is closed again due to faulty escalators.

BBC London Travel News stated "Tickets are being accepted on local buses".

How is this handled for anyone who has Oyster pre-pay, and doesn't have a
"ticket"? Will they be charged for an "extra" journey by bus?

Email or call (I prefer email) the Oyster helpdesk and explain the extra cost you
have incurred and they will refund you.

If you will definitely pass through the gates of a specific tube station in the next
7 days tell them this and they will send the refund electronically to the gate for
your card to pick up, otherwise you have to cash in a cheque or voucher.

Re MatSav's point - Oyster is (IMO) a great system (though many will
disagree) but as you rightly point out it can't cope with complexities
such as this. If you were to use Oyster Pre Pay on a local bus to get
to another Northern line station you'll be charged a bus fare alongside
your tube fare. It would be immensely complicated (nigh on impossible)
to code the system so this didn't happen cue a torrent of people
explaining how this would actually be very simple.


What is meant to happen is that the Wayfarer machines on the buses on
the routes affected should have an "LUL resolution" code entered by
the driver, given by Centrecomm. This sets the machine to resolve any
unresolved tube journeys, and not charge a bus fare.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:41:40 +0000, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

So, Kentish Town station is closed again due to faulty escalators.
BBC London Travel News stated "Tickets are being accepted on local buses".

How is this handled for anyone who has Oyster pre-pay, and doesn't have a
"ticket"? Will they be charged for an "extra" journey by bus?

What is meant to happen is that the Wayfarer machines on the buses on
the routes affected should have an "LUL resolution" code entered by
the driver, given by Centrecomm. This sets the machine to resolve any
unresolved tube journeys, and not charge a bus fare.

Interesting. Presumably the exit gates at the relevant stations would
have to be left open, with signs telling passengers *not* to touch out
if they're taking the bus. But how does the passenger know that the
resolution code has been entered, and they won't be hit with both an
unresolved journey and an extra bus fare? What happens if their
journey starts with the bus journey (in this case, if they're starting
their journey from Kentish Town)?

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:41:40 +0000, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

What is meant to happen is that the Wayfarer machines on the buses on
the routes affected should have an "LUL resolution" code entered by
the driver, given by Centrecomm. This sets the machine to resolve any
unresolved tube journeys, and not charge a bus fare.

But would it be an unresolved Underground journey? You left the
system at an earlier station than planned. But you went through the
barrier. It has no way of knowing you intended to travel further.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:41:40 +0000, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

What is meant to happen is that the Wayfarer machines on the buses on
the routes affected should have an "LUL resolution" code entered by
the driver, given by Centrecomm. This sets the machine to resolve any
unresolved tube journeys, and not charge a bus fare.

But would it be an unresolved Underground journey? You left the
system at an earlier station than planned. But you went through the
barrier. It has no way of knowing you intended to travel further.


And the fact that you don't touch out of buses means that it can't even
calculate that you got off the bus, within a certain amount of time,
somewhere along the route that you were already on. And which routes
are covered? What if it was more convenient, having been forced off
the train, to take a different route that took you nearer to your final
destination than the (quicker) train did?

This could be resolved by a brilliant new idea I've had. A ticket that
allows you to make as many journeys as you like all day, with a peak
and off-peak version.

They could call it an "all day travelling card" or something ...

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On 30 Jan 2006 05:17:40 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

This could be resolved by a brilliant new idea I've had. A ticket that
allows you to make as many journeys as you like all day, with a peak
and off-peak version.

They could call it an "all day travelling card" or something ...

And you could have an extended version, covering a period of time...

Which would help someone who wanted to make a single journey, at a
single journey price, just how?

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 30 Jan 2006 05:17:40 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

This could be resolved by a brilliant new idea I've had. A ticket that
allows you to make as many journeys as you like all day, with a peak
and off-peak version.

They could call it an "all day travelling card" or something ...

And you could have an extended version, covering a period of time...

Which would help someone who wanted to make a single journey, at a
single journey price, just how?

By being cheap enough I spose.

Depends what you mean by "journey". The problem is with being charged
extra for having to change to a different vehicle, despite it actually
being less convenient, to make what in real life is a single journey to
where you want to be.

People using cars (the real competition) don't have to pay extra if
they stop off on their way, so why should people using buses and/or
trains?

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On 31 Jan 2006 05:07:58 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

Which would help someone who wanted to make a single journey, at a
single journey price, just how?

By being cheap enough I spose.

Depends what you mean by "journey". The problem is with being charged
extra for having to change to a different vehicle, despite it actually
being less convenient, to make what in real life is a single journey to
where you want to be.

People using cars (the real competition) don't have to pay extra if
they stop off on their way, so why should people using buses and/or
trains?

So you want to be charged for a full day's usage of the whole system
when you just wanted a single Underground journey? You'd be
screaming even louder :-)

All we were discussing was a failure of one type of ticket to
automatically recognise a diversion due to breakdown etc. If you
were driving your car and broke down you wouldn't get free diversion
to another form of transport. Anyway, a car is only a special-case
option into central London now.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 31 Jan 2006 05:07:58 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

Which would help someone who wanted to make a single journey, at a
single journey price, just how?

By being cheap enough I spose.

Depends what you mean by "journey". The problem is with being charged
extra for having to change to a different vehicle, despite it actually
being less convenient, to make what in real life is a single journey to
where you want to be.

People using cars (the real competition) don't have to pay extra if
they stop off on their way, so why should people using buses and/or
trains?

So you want to be charged for a full day's usage of the whole system
when you just wanted a single Underground journey? You'd be
screaming even louder :-)


Not if a full day's usage was cheap enough


All we were discussing was a failure of one type of ticket to
automatically recognise a diversion due to breakdown etc. If you
were driving your car and broke down you wouldn't get free diversion
to another form of transport. Anyway, a car is only a special-case
option into central London now.


The problem is that the system has trouble with working out that you
started your journey in one place and ended up (in some reasonable
amount of time) in another place, and then charging you for getting
from one place to the other. Diversions shouldn't be an issue.

They've gone for the simplistic option of deeming you to have made two
journeys if you have to use, say, two buses or bus and a train along
the way.

When bus routes were progressively cut short over the last few years,
eg stopping short at Russell Square instead of going on to Euston, I
originally thought that it was to avoid difficult stretches of road so
that claims could be made about improved reliability.

It wasn't to get more fares at first, because everyone was using
travelcards.

But now with Prepay, shorter bus routes does mean double fares in a lot
of cases. I object to that and I think that there should be more
sensible ways of defining a "journey".

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

In message .com, MIG
writes
When bus routes were progressively cut short over the last few years,
eg stopping short at Russell Square instead of going on to Euston, I
originally thought that it was to avoid difficult stretches of road so
that claims could be made about improved reliability.

It wasn't to get more fares at first, because everyone was using
travelcards.
Travelcards haven't been removed so I don't see how that makes any
difference to the argument (whether the argument is right or wrong). Bus
routes have changed radically in terms of destinations and frequency
over the years, particular in recent years. Anyway, one the basis 1
counter example proves you wrong(!) the Number 5 bus route is being
extended this March and covering the length of a the "next" bus route
along the road, the Number 87. There's a 15 minute overlapping section,
so in this case it appears to be a case of trying to stop the buses
clogging up behind each other over the overlapping service and evening
out service frequency (there doesn't seem to be any change in overall
bus numbers serving the combined route).


But now with Prepay, shorter bus routes does mean double fares in a lot
of cases. I object to that and I think that there should be more
sensible ways of defining a "journey".
This situation existed a long time before Prepay. Think X43 and all
sorts of other bus alterations (e.g. a random trawl produces the 15 bus
route, which in 1949 ran all the way from Kew Green to East Ham. There's
many other examples as a random trawl on http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/
will show. Inconceivable now due to the various congestion points on
route); nothing to do with Prepay. Also I recall a few 'That's Life's on
the subject of shortening bus routes, an unfortunate number of years
(from my perspective) before Prepay.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

On 31 Jan 2006 12:42:04 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

It wasn't to get more fares at first, because everyone was using
travelcards.

But now with Prepay, shorter bus routes does mean double fares in a lot
of cases. I object to that and I think that there should be more
sensible ways of defining a "journey".

Don't you understand the capping system on pre-pay? It can't go over
the cost of a travelcard or 'bus pass, but it can be a lot cheaper if
you just want one or two 'bus journeys. It is indeed unfair that you
can't get a transfer when a route runs short. But the travelcard user
has no advantage in this case.

Kentish Town and Oyster Pre-Pay
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 31 Jan 2006 12:42:04 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

It wasn't to get more fares at first, because everyone was using
travelcards.

But now with Prepay, shorter bus routes does mean double fares in a lot
of cases. I object to that and I think that there should be more
sensible ways of defining a "journey".

Don't you understand the capping system on pre-pay? It can't go over
the cost of a travelcard or 'bus pass, but it can be a lot cheaper if
you just want one or two 'bus journeys. It is indeed unfair that you
can't get a transfer when a route runs short. But the travelcard user
has no advantage in this case.


Capping was introduced to persuade people that Prepay was just as good
as a travelcard (as long as you don't use a NR train), with the
possibility that on certain days you would actually save by not making
many journeys.

But short bus routes still double the amount you pay, even if you don't
reach the capping limit.

If you have Prepay and then realise that, due to lack of time or
whatever, you need a NR train, you are really shafted, even though it
would have been covered by a travelcard for nothing (the reason why TfL
got done by the ASA for their posters).

I'm saying that there is a problem with charging per vehicle instead of
per genuine journey, and that capping is only a little bit of a
solution.

It may well be better than the single bus tickets of the 1970s, but
many bus routes were a lot longer then.