I find myself in the position of needing to travel between Kensington
Olympia and Wimbledon (usually in that direction) on a regular basis. I
am rather confused about the fares.

There are two routes - NR (change at Clapham Junction) and LUL (change
at Earls Court). As there's not much difference in journey time I
usually take whichever train is likely to depart first.

The NR ticket machine at Olympia helpfully has a Wimbledon button on it.
It doesn't say 'via' on it so I naively assumed that this is valid
via either route. However this ticket is issued as a single to U23
which seems to me to mean only valid via LUL. Further, the price of
this ticket (peak or offpeak) always seems to be £3, which looks
suspiciously like the LUL non-Oyster fare between zones 2 (Olympia) and
3 (Wimbledon).

On checking nationalrail.co.uk I find standard day singles at £3.40,
£4.30 and £5.60 (no indication of why the difference) and cheap day
singles at £4.20 and £4.80. (Why are the 'cheap' day singles dearer
than the cheapest standard day single?!)

So, I would appreciate answers to the following questions:

1. Is the £3.00 single (to U23) as issued at Olympia when pressing the
'Wimbledon' button on the machine actually valid on NR via Clapham
Junction? And, if not, why does the button not say 'via Earls Court'?
What would the penalty be if ticket checked on-train?

2. If the £3.00 single is valid via Clapham Junction then is Oyster
pre-pay (£1.00 from zones 2 to 3 at any time of day) valid via that
route also (which would be a real bargain compared to the cheapest
standard day single of £3.40)?

3. If answer to both of the above is no then why do the powers that be
not recognise that NR via Clapham Junction is nowadays quite a viable
route from Olympia to Wimbledon (and I guess to other NR/LUL joint
stations like Richmond also) and at least give a ticket machine option
for that?

Peter Kelly

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:08:47 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

1. Is the £3.00 single (to U23) as issued at Olympia when pressing the
'Wimbledon' button on the machine actually valid on NR via Clapham
Junction? And, if not, why does the button not say 'via Earls Court'?
What would the penalty be if ticket checked on-train?

If Kensington Olympia and Wimbledon are treated as "joint stations"
(i.e. a joint LU/National Rail station), then LU pricing applies, ditto
if you use the tube all the way.

I've not met this concept before. Are you saying that a tube Z23
single is valid from KO to Wimbledon on NR?

"Peter Kelly" wrote in message
...

There are two routes - NR (change at Clapham Junction)
and LUL (change at Earls Court). As there's not much
difference in journey time I usually take whichever train is likely to
depart first.

You might also change at West Brompton.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:51:53 +0000, Peter Kelly wrote:



However this ticket is issued as a single to U23
which seems to me to mean only valid via LUL.

What is LUL?

--
jhk

(posting from Norway)

[Peter Kelly]
However this ticket is issued as a single to U23
which seems to me to mean only valid via LUL.

[Jarle H Knudsen]
What is LUL?

London Underground Limited.
--
Michael Hoffman

Barry Salter wrote:



If you go by train, then the following fares apply, according to
QJump.co.uk:

Standard Day Single rte Clapham Junction Not London: £3.40
Cheap Day Single rte Kensington Olympia: £4.20
Standard Day Single rte Kensington Olympia: £4.60
Cheap Day Single rte Any Permitted: £4.80
Standard Day Single rte Fulham Broadway: £5.00
Standard Day Single rte Any Permitted: £5.30
First Day Single rte Kensington Olympia: £6.00

The National Fares Manual *only* gives the route Clapham Junction Not
London fares. The others are the fares from Willesden Junction, as Kenny
O is a "related station".


Thanks. That makes 9 possible single fares when LUL (Oystercard and
non-Oystercard) are added in. Is this a record for a 7 mile journey?

I hadn't realised that it was possible to find out the routeing
information on the web - I assumed that Qjump's link which says "There
may be alternative, slower routes with cheaper tickets" wouldn't do
anything if there wasn't a slower route but now I see that's where they
hide the routeing info.

Qjump also shows a Standard Day Single rte Clapham Junction Not London
for £1.80, but with no validity on any trains!

The fares on this route seem pretty screwed up to me. I think that
(unless I need a travelcard that day) I'll be sticking to the tube for
£1.00 single on Oystercard and foregoing the excitement of guessing
whether a tube or NR train will go next.

Will the fares for this journey be rationalised when the Mayor takes
over Silverlink?

Peter

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:58:22 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

Thanks for all the other info.

Train Tube Fares

Train Tube Standard and First Class Single/Day Return fares are
available for journeys wholly within the London Fare Zones Area. Tickets
are valid for one single or return journey between the origin station
and a National Rail, LU or DLR station within the zones for which the
ticket is issued. Tickets are priced according to the number of zones
entered or crossed and unless specifically shown, are routed 'Any
Permitted' and are valid on any National Rail, LU or DLR service.

Train Tube tickets are valid for all the zones through which travel will
be made, irrespective of the mode used. For example a ticket for a
journey between Selhurst (Zone 4) and Warren Street (Zone 1) will be
issued 'Selhurst to U1234', and is valid for transfer to Underground
services at any interchange on the line of route, i.e. Balham, London
Victoria, or Vauxhall/London Waterloo via Clapham Junction.

Well I've certainly learnt something new from reading that.

Would I be correct in assuming that this arrangement does not work in
reverse? e.g. you cannot buy a Warren St to Selhurst 4 zone train tube
ticket? I am not aware that we have suddenly gone zonal on through
tickets in the London area - I thought we still had individually priced
destinations with limited interchange / routing options. If you are
able to clarify I'd be very grateful.

snip

Local journeys between stations jointly served by National Rail and
London Underground services

In the case of of certain local journeys, where both the origin and
destination station are designated 'joint' stations, tickets are
regarded as LU issues and priced accordingly. Local instructions are
issued in these circumstances.

I recently had to travel from West Brompton to Walthamstow Central. Now
that can either be wholly on the tube or else I could toddle along
various bits of Silverlink (WLL, NLL, GOBLIN) to Blackhorse Rd and
change - mad I know but I fancied an above ground trip. Upon enquiring
at West Brompton the poor clerk could not find a fare for a station
beyond Willesden Junction. In the end I went by tube as I hate having to
rebook mid journey - especially at a nightmare place like Willesden
Junction.

While I know UTS can be notoriously limited in its range of NR
destinations it sounds to me that the above explanation would imply that
my journey could be covered by a LU ticket for zones 234 [1]. Are you
able to confirm that?

[1] I am obviously assuming that both West Brompton and Walthamstow
Central fall into the "joint station" category.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:14:21 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Would I be correct in assuming that this arrangement does not work in
reverse? e.g. you cannot buy a Warren St to Selhurst 4 zone train tube
ticket? I am not aware that we have suddenly gone zonal on through
tickets in the London area - I thought we still had individually priced
destinations with limited interchange / routing options. If you are
able to clarify I'd be very grateful.

We have indeed "gone zonal on through tickets in the London area". I'm
sure you can buy these tickets from LU stations - they're in the TfL
2006 fares leaflet, and were discussed here briefly when it was first
published:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....cace6081860029

While I know UTS can be notoriously limited in its range of NR
destinations it sounds to me that the above explanation would imply that
my journey could be covered by a LU ticket for zones 234 [1]. Are you
able to confirm that?

[1] I am obviously assuming that both West Brompton and Walthamstow
Central fall into the "joint station" category.

I'm still wondering whether this "joint stations" thing is something
completely new, or if it's just a mixup with the usual concept of
interavailable routes?

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:58:22 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

Train Tube tickets are valid for all the zones through which travel will
be made, irrespective of the mode used. For example a ticket for a
journey between Selhurst (Zone 4) and Warren Street (Zone 1) will be
issued 'Selhurst to U1234', and is valid for transfer to Underground
services at any interchange on the line of route, i.e. Balham, London
Victoria, or Vauxhall/London Waterloo via Clapham Junction.

But aren't normal LU singles also issued with destinations like U1234?
So could tickets with the same thing printed on them end up having
different validities?

For example, if you go to Ealing Broadway (an NR station) and ask for
a ticket to West Ruislip, you could either get a ticket to U3456 (LU
single costing £3.00, only valid via North Acton), or a ticket to
U3456 (Train Tube single costing £3.40, also valid via South
Greenford).

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:58:22 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

snip

Local journeys between stations jointly served by National Rail and
London Underground services

In the case of of certain local journeys, where both the origin and
destination station are designated 'joint' stations, tickets are
regarded as LU issues and priced accordingly. Local instructions are
issued in these circumstances.

I recently had to travel from West Brompton to Walthamstow Central. Now
that can either be wholly on the tube or else I could toddle along
various bits of Silverlink (WLL, NLL, GOBLIN) to Blackhorse Rd and
change - mad I know but I fancied an above ground trip. Upon enquiring
at West Brompton the poor clerk could not find a fare for a station
beyond Willesden Junction. In the end I went by tube as I hate having to
rebook mid journey - especially at a nightmare place like Willesden
Junction.

While I know UTS can be notoriously limited in its range of NR
destinations it sounds to me that the above explanation would imply that
my journey could be covered by a LU ticket for zones 234 [1]. Are you
able to confirm that?

You could use an LU ticket for zones 234 if you travelled via Willesden
Junction and Highbury & Islington - because LU paper singles are valid
West Brompton - Willesden Junction and Richmond - North Woolwich.
However, I don't think they are yet valid from Gospel Oak to Barking
(BICBW).

[1] I am obviously assuming that both West Brompton and Walthamstow
Central fall into the "joint station" category.



--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London