In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Peter Frimberly) wrote:

Arguably anyone cycling along the Euston Road is asking for
trouble, given the bendy buses that use that road and the car
and white vans weaving about all over the place. There are
plenty of much quieter parallel roads to choose from for any
cyclist that values their life, even if a couple more junctions
are involved and it takes a few minuites extra!

Not between King's Cross station and Judd Street.

Now, if Argyle St (I think that's the name) allowed two way
cycling and a cycle route across the Euston Road were signalled
it would be easier but it would be too complicated for Camden to
provide cycling facilities that work in two directions,
apparently.

I think this is going to get a lot better when Midland Road is
reopened - there'll be a route round the back of King's Cross, via
Goods Way / Pancras Road, then Midland Road, then straight across
to Judd Street. This all hinges on Midland Road being two-way, or
at least having a contraflow cycle lane, of course, and i've no
idea if that will be the case.

Not much use unfortunately for people arriving at King's Cross on
trains from Cambridge. As Cambridge is the UK's premier cycling
city there are not a few of us.

I have a cycling friend from Cambridge who occasionally comes down on
the train. We generally meet out the back, Cheney Road, i think it's
called. From there, you get out onto Pancras Road; we normally head
south, and then fight our way along Euston Road, but if Midland Road
was available, we could go north, under the railway on Pancras Road,
and then south into town along Midland Road. It adds a couple of
hundred metres of distance, but takes off a couple of hundred metres
of riding on the Euston Road, so it's a win in my book!

Yes, but the Argyle St option would also be straight across, and onto a
quieter road with a route which isn't a through one for cars. It's also
a better approach _to_ King's Cross apart from the mess on Euston Road
during the works.

I have to say, this whole area is mind-buggeringly awful for
cyclists. Pretty much all the way from Copenhagen Street to
Tavistock Place is badly laid out and in an absolute state. I can
only hope that much of it is to do with the King's Cross works,
and that things will get better soon. Off the top of my head,
things that need doing:
[snip]

I agree it's a mess. Is there any way of talking to anyone in
charge of sorting things out to discuss the needs of bikes? My
worry is that once the pedestrian subways are completed it will
become almost impossible to cross Euston Road to get to and from
King's Cross. Taking away the crossing outside the station
concourse didn't help.

I haven't even a clue who's in charge of the KX project, let alone
how one might go about making representation to them - Network Rail
run the mainline station, TfL run the underground, GNER, Thameslink,
WAGN and Hull Trains have an interest, Union Rail are in charge of
the CTRL-related bits, the streets are Camden council's, except for
the big ones which might be TfL's, various individual buildings are
owned by private property developers, it's a big enough project that
i imagine the GLA, LDA and DfT all have fingers in the pie up to at
least the second knuckle, the work's being carried out by N
contracting firms managed via M consultancies, and i wouldn't be
surprised if the Milk Marketing Board was involved somehow. In fact,
i think the very idea that there *is* anyone in charge might be
erroneous.

Perhaps LTUC would be the people to talk to. Actually, the LCC might
be even better.

That had occurred to me, for just those reasons!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Tom Anderson wrote:
I think this is going to get a lot better when Midland Road is reopened
- there'll be a route round the back of King's Cross, via Goods Way /
Pancras Road, then Midland Road, then straight across to Judd Street.
This all hinges on Midland Road being two-way, or at least having a
contraflow cycle lane, of course, and i've no idea if that will be the
case.

One thing I know for sure is that Midland Road will be one-way
southbound (don't know if a contraflow cycle lane will be in place
though). They're also planning to make the Pancras Road stretch between
Euston Road and Goods Way one-way northbound, thereby creating an
anti-clockwise movement of traffic around London St. Pancras International.

Tom Anderson wrote:

I have a cycling friend from Cambridge who occasionally comes down on
the train. We generally meet out the back, Cheney Road, i think it's
called. From there, you get out onto Pancras Road; we normally head
south, and then fight our way along Euston Road, but if Midland Road
was available, we could go north, under the railway on Pancras Road,
and then south into town along Midland Road. It adds a couple of
hundred metres of distance, but takes off a couple of hundred metres
of riding on the Euston Road, so it's a win in my book!

I often take my bike into town and cycle between KX and the Baker
Street/Marylebone area. The best way that I've found is out of the suburban
station at KX, up past St, P and under the Midland main line, then up to
Mornington Crescent, across and through the estate to join Parkway at the
west end and then down and around Regent's Park, either to Great Portland
Street or into Baker Street itself, then down the marked cycle route through
Marylebone. It's not a bad ride and the roads are quite well maintained and
you can achieve a good speed - certainly much better than tackling Euston
Road and Marylebone Road and all the stop-start for lights, buses etc. It
depends where you want to go, though.

In article ,
(Edward Sloley) wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
I think this is going to get a lot better when Midland Road is
reopened - there'll be a route round the back of King's Cross, via
Goods Way / Pancras Road, then Midland Road, then straight across
to Judd Street. This all hinges on Midland Road being two-way, or
at least having a contraflow cycle lane, of course, and i've no
idea if that will be the case.

One thing I know for sure is that Midland Road will be one-way
southbound (don't know if a contraflow cycle lane will be in place
though). They're also planning to make the Pancras Road stretch
between Euston Road and Goods Way one-way northbound, thereby
creating an anti-clockwise movement of traffic around London St.
Pancras International.

With a cycle contra-flow to get from Platforms 9-11 to Argyle Street? Do
the people drawing up these plans talk to any cyclists, let alone any of
them cycle themselves?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Peter Frimberly) wrote:

Now, if Argyle St (I think that's the name) allowed two way cycling
and a cycle route across the Euston Road were signalled it would be
easier but it would be too complicated for Camden to provide cycling
facilities that work in two directions, apparently.

I think this is going to get a lot better when Midland Road is
reopened - there'll be a route round the back of King's Cross, via
Goods Way / Pancras Road, then Midland Road, then straight across to
Judd Street.

if Midland Road was available, we could go north, under the railway on
Pancras Road, and then south into town along Midland Road.

Yes, but the Argyle St option would also be straight across, and onto a
quieter road with a route which isn't a through one for cars.

I've never found Judd St that busy, but YMMV. Also, with Argyle St, you
can't actually get anywhere without going onto Judd St anyway (except
Coram's Fields perhaps)!

It's also a better approach _to_ King's Cross apart from the mess on
Euston Road during the works.

True.

tom

--
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Jack Taylor wrote:

I often take my bike into town and cycle between KX and the Baker
Street/Marylebone area. The best way that I've found is out of the
suburban station at KX, up past St, P and under the Midland main line,
then up to Mornington Crescent, across and through the estate to join
Parkway at the west end and then down and around Regent's Park, either
to Great Portland Street or into Baker Street itself, then down the
marked cycle route through Marylebone.

Wow. That's an incredibly indirect route - two, three times the direct
distance from KX to Great Portland Street?

What i'd do in that situation is head south from KX onto the Seven
Stations route, which at that point is Tavistock Place, using the sort of
manoeuvres we've been discussing, then just ride that west - i think it's
Howland Street west of Tottenham Court Road.

It's not a bad ride and the roads are quite well maintained and you can
achieve a good speed - certainly much better than tackling Euston Road
and Marylebone Road and all the stop-start for lights, buses etc. It
depends where you want to go, though.

My route's traffic is far better than Euston/Marylebone Rd, although it
does still have plenty of lights. The route goes through the middle of the
Marylebone and Baker Street areas, rather than the northern edge as the
big road does, so it's pretty good for getting to places.

tom

--
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Edward Sloley wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

This all hinges on Midland Road being two-way, or at least having a
contraflow cycle lane, of course, and i've no idea if that will be the
case.

One thing I know for sure is that Midland Road will be one-way
southbound (don't know if a contraflow cycle lane will be in place
though). They're also planning to make the Pancras Road stretch between
Euston Road and Goods Way one-way northbound, thereby creating an
anti-clockwise movement of traffic around London St. Pancras
International.

So, along with the York Road / Caledonian Road / Wharfedale Road and
Gray's Inn Road / Pentonville Road / etc loops, King's Cross will become
the focus of three gyratory systems, arranged like petals on a flower?
Who's in charge of this? The freemasons or the druids? Christ on a bike.

tom

--
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Jack Taylor wrote:

I often take my bike into town and cycle between KX and the Baker
Street/Marylebone area. The best way that I've found is out of the
suburban station at KX, up past St, P and under the Midland main
line, then up to Mornington Crescent, across and through the estate
to join Parkway at the west end and then down and around Regent's
Park, either to Great Portland Street or into Baker Street itself,
then down the marked cycle route through Marylebone.

Wow. That's an incredibly indirect route - two, three times the direct
distance from KX to Great Portland Street?

It's probably about twice the distance but takes much the same time as
negotiating Euston Road and Marylebone Road and the traffic flows well
(there's also a hell of a lot less of it and very few traffic lights) so you
can move at a much higher speed than using the direct route. In terms of
time (I used to do Marylebone Road/Euston Road) it doesn't take much longer
at all for a much more enjoyable ride. As I'm usually heading to/from
Marylebone station then tanking around the Outer Circle of Regent's Park
from Parkway and cutting across Baker Street/Park Road into Boston Place is
convenient for me. If I was heading down towards Marylebone High Street area
then I *would* probably take the Fitzrovia route that you suggested.

Tom Anderson wrote:
Who's in charge of this? The freemasons or the druids? Christ on a bike.

The latter, I suspect, would be a sight to behold. ;-)

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Edward Sloley) wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:
I think this is going to get a lot better when Midland Road is
reopened - there'll be a route round the back of King's Cross, via
Goods Way / Pancras Road, then Midland Road, then straight across
to Judd Street. This all hinges on Midland Road being two-way, or
at least having a contraflow cycle lane, of course, and i've no
idea if that will be the case.

One thing I know for sure is that Midland Road will be one-way
southbound (don't know if a contraflow cycle lane will be in place
though). They're also planning to make the Pancras Road stretch
between Euston Road and Goods Way one-way northbound, thereby
creating an anti-clockwise movement of traffic around London St.
Pancras International.

With a cycle contra-flow to get from Platforms 9-11 to Argyle Street? Do
the people drawing up these plans talk to any cyclists, let alone any of
them cycle themselves?

Camden Cyclists (Camden LCC) are on the case, but not being listened
to very well.

Access to the new St Pancras Midland, in particular, may be very
circuitous.

Colin McKenzie