Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Does this mean, for example, someone getting on a Routemaster, which has a
conductor, will be unable to buy the ticket from the counductor when in the
"ticketless" zone, but can buy one from him when the same bus is outside that
zone?

If so, is it actually going to be the case that a passenger trying to buy a
ticket from the conductor in that zone will be put off the bus, or told "wait
till we are out of the zone and I'll sell you a ticket then", or will
commonsense prevail and he will sell you a ticket as usual?

Marc.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Mait001 writes
Does this mean, for example, someone getting on a Routemaster, which has a
conductor, will be unable to buy the ticket from the counductor when in the
"ticketless" zone, but can buy one from him when the same bus is outside that
zone?

If so, is it actually going to be the case that a passenger trying to buy a
ticket from the conductor in that zone will be put off the bus, or told "wait
till we are out of the zone and I'll sell you a ticket then", or will
commonsense prevail and he will sell you a ticket as usual?

As the purpose of the scheme is to reduce boarding times and as it
applies at specific bus stops served by specific routes (not *all* bus
stops on *all* routes) - then what 'common-sense' indicates to me is
that they're probably not including crew-operated routes in the scheme.

--
Dave

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:40:25 +0100, Roy Stilling
wrote:

Dave wrote:

As the purpose of the scheme is to reduce boarding times and as it
applies at specific bus stops served by specific routes (not *all* bus
stops on *all* routes) - then what 'common-sense' indicates to me is
that they're probably not including crew-operated routes in the scheme.

But they're installing ticket machines at stops on Piccadilly that are
only served by crew-operated routes.

Roy

24 hours a day, 7 days a week?


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Roy Stilling writes
As the purpose of the scheme is to reduce boarding times and as it
applies at specific bus stops served by specific routes (not *all* bus
stops on *all* routes) - then what 'common-sense' indicates to me is
that they're probably not including crew-operated routes in the scheme.

But they're installing ticket machines at stops on Piccadilly that are
only served by crew-operated routes.

Do remember though, that no routes are crew-operated 24/7.

--
Dave

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:40:34 +0100, Dave
wrote:

Do remember though, that no routes are crew-operated 24/7.

And also that the death knell has been sounded for the Routemaster
anyway - more and more bendy routes will be introduced, and once
off-bus ticketing and all-door boarding has been introduced on other
routes the loading speed advantage of the Routemaster will be as good
as wiped out.

Neil

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Roy Stilling writes
Dave wrote:

As the purpose of the scheme is to reduce boarding times and as it
applies at specific bus stops served by specific routes (not *all* bus
stops on *all* routes) - then what 'common-sense' indicates to me is
that they're probably not including crew-operated routes in the scheme.

But they're installing ticket machines at stops on Piccadilly that are
only served by crew-operated routes.

You can also purchase one-day bus passes from the machines; these are
not available for purchase on-board the bus.

--
Dave

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Mark Brader wrote:
Neil Williams:

And also that the death knell has been sounded for the Routemaster
... and once off-bus ticketing and all-door boarding has been
introduced on other routes the loading speed advantage of the
Routemaster will be as good as wiped out.


Only at bus stops.

And since you're technically not supposed to get on or off other than at
bus stops...

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
(Neil Williams) wrote the following in:


On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:40:34 +0100, Dave
wrote:

Do remember though, that no routes are crew-operated 24/7.

And also that the death knell has been sounded for the Routemaster
anyway - more and more bendy routes will be introduced, and once
off-bus ticketing and all-door boarding has been introduced on other
routes the loading speed advantage of the Routemaster will be as good
as wiped out.

But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being liked more than
any other sort of bus. Most people I know prefer Routemasters to others
buses. I'm not sure what it is about them but they're just better
liked.

It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for tourist
services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better (faster than
a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Robin May wrote in message .. .
(Neil Williams) wrote the following in:

But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being liked more than
any other sort of bus. Most people I know prefer Routemasters to others
buses. I'm not sure what it is about them but they're just better
liked.

People may *say* they like them, but they certainly don't like going
upstairs on them. This is the main reason bendy buses are being
introduced; same (or greater) capacity as a double-decker but lazy
types can now no longer crowd into the bottom floor, causing the bus
to have to go past waiting passengers even though there is plenty of
space on the top deck.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...

But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being
liked more than any other sort of bus. Most people I
know prefer Routemasters to others buses. I'm not
sure what it is about them but they're just better liked.

I like them in Oxford Street, because you can ride when the traffic moves
and start walking as soon as the traffic stops. If they could find a way to
fix the traffic situation in Oxford Street, I suppose we wouldn't need them.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

The Only Living Boy in New Cross writes
Most people I know prefer Routemasters to others buses. I'm not sure
what it is about them but they're just better liked.

People may *say* they like them, but they certainly don't like going
upstairs on them.

I always do. I might sit downstairs on other buses - but I always go
upstairs on a Routemaster. Because access to the stairs is much easier.

This is the main reason bendy buses are being introduced; same (or
greater) capacity as a double-decker

A lot more - the bendy-bus has capacity for 140 people. That's 50 more
than a conventional double-decker and more than double the capacity of a
Routemaster (although there are only about 50 seats on the bendy-bus,
about 20 less than a conventional double-decker).

--
Dave

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

In article ,
Robin May wrote:
But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being liked more than
any other sort of bus.

ISTR that the number of passenger injuries (and deaths) for RMs being very
much higher than non-RMs (due in part to people jumping on and off at every
available opertunity).

So perhaps the friends and relatives of those killed would disagree with your
comment.

--
Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no
sneaky eating each other.
-- FW (should I worry?)

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Mike Bristow writes
In article ,
Robin May wrote:
But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being liked more than
any other sort of bus.

ISTR that the number of passenger injuries (and deaths) for RMs being very
much higher than non-RMs (due in part to people jumping on and off at every
available opertunity).

So perhaps the friends and relatives of those killed would disagree with your
comment.

Tough. No-one forced them to jump on or off in-between stops.

--
Dave

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:27:25 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I like them in Oxford Street, because you can ride when the traffic moves
and start walking as soon as the traffic stops. If they could find a way to
fix the traffic situation in Oxford Street, I suppose we wouldn't need them.

Off-bus ticketing will help, though there will need to be
consideration of how to handle the taxi and a rationalisation of the
number of bus routes in that corridor to really help.

I'd start by banning loading[1] during the shop-opening day (8am-8pm
should do it), including taxis except in designated areas. Then, with
100% off-bus ticketing (except maybe Routemasters), move the bus stops
into the main flow and towards the traffic lights. Thus, buses would
end up stopping together, and the front bus could perhaps have control
of the lights to allow it to depart when loading/unloading was
complete. At present, buses stop in bus stops, then stop again at
traffic lights - this is horribly inefficient. Any more ideas?

[1] Is rear access available to all the shops along there? If not,
some bays may be necessary.

Neil

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:09:57 +0100, Dave
wrote:

Tough. No-one forced them to jump on or off in-between stops.

Indeed. Darwin strikes again...

What I would say *is* rather dangerous about RMs is how the staircase
leads straight onto the platform such that if anyone was to slip on
the stairs they'd end up on the tarmac. It'd make more sense, from a
safety perspective, for the stairs to lead down against the back wall
with a sharp "turn" at the bottom, so anyone falling would not end up
falling out, but the split boarding arrangement would remain.

That said, they weren't designed for the current litigious society -
which is why I'm amazed they're still in operation...

Neil

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Ed Crowley wrote:
It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for tourist
services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better
(faster than a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

I dunno about less dangerous, having seen the bendy buses on the roads in
London I reckon a total mashing of either a car or an innocent pedestrian is
not far off.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Cal Nihoni wrote:
Ed Crowley wrote:
It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for
tourist services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much
better (faster than a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

I dunno about less dangerous, having seen the bendy buses on the
roads in London I reckon a total mashing of either a car or an
innocent pedestrian is not far off.

From what I've seen, they are no more hazardous to other road users than
other buses. What dangerous incidents have you seen?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Mike Bristow wrote the following in:


In article ,
Robin May wrote:
But the Routemaster still has the advantage of being liked more
than any other sort of bus.

ISTR that the number of passenger injuries (and deaths) for RMs
being very much higher than non-RMs (due in part to people jumping
on and off at every available opertunity).

That would create a few isolated cases of dislike, not a widespread
dislike.

So perhaps the friends and relatives of those killed would
disagree with your comment.

They might. But all I said was that the Routemaster is like more than
any other sort of bus, not that it is universally liked. All the people
I know (or at least all those I've discussed this with) have liked the
Routemasters more.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Just wondering, can a bendy bus make that left turn from Lower Regent Street
into the Piccadilly bus lane without changing existing layouts?

Ditto for Regent Street left-turns into Oxford Street and vice versa?

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:40:34 +0100, Dave
wrote:

Do remember though, that no routes are crew-operated 24/7.

And also that the death knell has been sounded for the Routemaster
anyway - more and more bendy routes will be introduced, and once
off-bus ticketing and all-door boarding has been introduced on other
routes the loading speed advantage of the Routemaster will be as good
as wiped out.

Neil

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Cal Nihoni wrote:
Ed Crowley wrote:
It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for tourist
services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better
(faster than a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

I dunno about less dangerous, having seen the bendy buses on the roads in
London I reckon a total mashing of either a car or an innocent pedestrian is
not far off.

I don't know either. My worry is that no-one is trying to find out in
case they don't like the answer. Collision statistics must be gathered
separately for bendy buses and ordinary ones, and no-one will tell me if
this is being done or not.

HGVs kill most of the cyclists who die on London roads - it is at least
possible that bendy buses will be equally dangerous.

Colin McKenzie

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Colin McKenzie wrote:
Cal Nihoni wrote:

Ed Crowley wrote:

It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for tourist
services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better
(faster than a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

I dunno about less dangerous, having seen the bendy buses on the roads in
London I reckon a total mashing of either a car or an innocent pedestrian is
not far off.

HGVs kill most of the cyclists who die on London roads - it is at least
possible that bendy buses will be equally dangerous.

My biker flatmates are *seriously* worried about the bendibuses.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Nes wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:40:34 +0100, Dave
wrote:

Do remember though, that no routes are crew-operated 24/7.

And also that the death knell has been sounded for the Routemaster
anyway - more and more bendy routes will be introduced, and once
off-bus ticketing and all-door boarding has been introduced on other
routes the loading speed advantage of the Routemaster will be as good
as wiped out.

Just wondering, can a bendy bus make that left turn from Lower Regent
Street into the Piccadilly bus lane without changing existing layouts?

Ditto for Regent Street left-turns into Oxford Street and vice versa?

I don't know, but they seem to manage the tight corners around Horseferry
Road on route 507 without problems. In fact they seem just as manoeuvrable
as a Routemaster.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Ed Crowley) wrote:

Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better (faster than
a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

You'd be surprised how stable double deckers are against toppling over.
Better than a lot of smaller vehicles, IIRC.

I saw something that said a London double-decker could tilt (something like)
30 degrees before tipping over!

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

I saw something that said a London double-decker could tilt (something like)
30 degrees before tipping over!


I think it is (or was) 28 degrees - with the top loaded alone!

In the old days when L.T. still had Aldenham Works, on an open day, they
allowed passengers to sit on a bus being thus tilted to 28 degrees (a
Routemaster) and it worked!

Marc.

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

In message , Ed Crowley
writes
I meant less dangerous for the passengers inside the bus! I've been
thrown down the stairs of a double-decker by the drivers'
over-enthusiastic braking on more than a few occasions.

And I've seen someone thrown down the whole length of a bus on a single
decker and hit the windscreen. (Learner driver pulled out in front of
bus. Bus driver had to brake very hard)
To be honest all vehicles can be dangerous in the wrong hands. And
accidents happen to all sizes of vehicles.
If you think big buses are dangerous. What about the huge lorries which
go through our roads?
--
CJG

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message t...

It would be nice if RMs were retained, even if it was only for tourist
services. Personally, I think the bendy buses are much better (faster than
a RM, less dangerous than a double-decker).

Having struggled down the Old Kent Road on the 453 and N453 a couple
of times, I think the bendy bus is slower and more cumbersome than a
Routemaster or regular double-decker.

They work a treat on faster routes like the Red Arrow - it suits the
507 down to the ground - but on slower, stop-start-stop-start services
they're an almighty pain.

Darryl

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

In article , Dave
writes
The Only Living Boy in New Cross writes
Most people I know prefer Routemasters to others buses. I'm not sure
what it is about them but they're just better liked.

People may *say* they like them, but they certainly don't like going
upstairs on them.

I always do. I might sit downstairs on other buses - but I always go
upstairs on a Routemaster. Because access to the stairs is much easier.


Yeh, well . . . when I was 20 I would bound up and down those stairs
like a gazelle, but now I'm approaching 50 I have a problem getting
easily down the stairs, which naturally is not helped by bus-drivers
driving like maniacs (all different in my day . . conductors more
courteous . . . children better behaved . . . less fare dodgers, more
inspectors, etc. etc.)

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Darryl Chamberlain wrote:
Having struggled down the Old Kent Road on the 453 and N453 a couple
of times, I think the bendy bus is slower and more cumbersome than a
Routemaster or regular double-decker.

They work a treat on faster routes like the Red Arrow - it suits the
507 down to the ground - but on slower, stop-start-stop-start services
they're an almighty pain.

Write to London Buses and tell them. They've done a survey with
carefully chosen questions, which seems to show that overall people
prefer the bendy buses to RMs.

Colin McKenzie

Ticketless Buses Zone 1?
 

Matthew Malthouse wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:09:01 +0100 Colin McKenzie wrote:
} Darryl Chamberlain wrote:
} Having struggled down the Old Kent Road on the 453 and N453 a couple
} of times, I think the bendy bus is slower and more cumbersome than a
} Routemaster or regular double-decker.
}
} They work a treat on faster routes like the Red Arrow - it suits the
} 507 down to the ground - but on slower, stop-start-stop-start services
} they're an almighty pain.
}
} Write to London Buses and tell them. They've done a survey with
} carefully chosen questions, which seems to show that overall people
} prefer the bendy buses to RMs.

"carefully chosen questions" hints that maybe they designed it to get
the answer they wanted. Do you intend that interpretation?

Well, let's say to maximise the chance of getting the answer they
wanted.

Most people who design surveys do this unless they're doing
peer-reviewed research.

Colin McKenzie