New Deal for Oyster?!
 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=776

Douglas Alexander (the new transport secretary) and Ken have announced
that Oyster equipment is to be rolled out to all Greater London National
Rail stations starting this year. TfL will pay for the equipment
(including the readers and the back-office equipment) which will be
installed by the TOCs.

Meanwhile, the DfT will fund a £19m upgrade of TfL's Oyster readers to
accept ITSO-standard smartcards too.

The press release says that PAYG could be available at National Rail
stations during 2008.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=776


Douglas Alexander (the new transport secretary) and Ken have announced
that Oyster equipment is to be rolled out to all Greater London National
Rail stations starting this year. TfL will pay for the equipment
(including the readers and the back-office equipment) which will be
installed by the TOCs.

Meanwhile, the DfT will fund a £19m upgrade of TfL's Oyster readers to
accept ITSO-standard smartcards too.

The press release says that PAYG could be available at National Rail
stations during 2008.


I wonder if they will give priority to certain lines eg South London.

IAn

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Douglas Alexander (the new transport secretary) and Ken have announced
that Oyster equipment is to be rolled out to all Greater London National
Rail stations starting this year. TfL will pay for the equipment
(including the readers and the back-office equipment) which will be
installed by the TOCs.

Meanwhile, the DfT will fund a £19m upgrade of TfL's Oyster readers to
accept ITSO-standard smartcards too.

The press release says that PAYG could be available at National Rail
stations during 2008.


I wonder if they will give priority to certain lines eg South London.

I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers in
place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation, would be
first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before the
equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations. It will be a
challenge to effectively communicate where pay as you go can be used as the
roll-out continues. Users find it difficult enough to grasp the current
static situation.

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

TKD wrote:
Douglas Alexander (the new transport secretary) and Ken have announced
that Oyster equipment is to be rolled out to all Greater London National
Rail stations starting this year. TfL will pay for the equipment
(including the readers and the back-office equipment) which will be
installed by the TOCs.

Meanwhile, the DfT will fund a £19m upgrade of TfL's Oyster readers to
accept ITSO-standard smartcards too.

The press release says that PAYG could be available at National Rail
stations during 2008.


I wonder if they will give priority to certain lines eg South London.

I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers in
place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation, would be
first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before the
equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations. It will be a
challenge to effectively communicate where pay as you go can be used as the
roll-out continues. Users find it difficult enough to grasp the current
static situation.

I imagine that for this reason, rollout will take place in distinct
groups (e.g. SWT, SET, FGWL...).


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message , TKD
writes

I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers in
place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation, would be
first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before the
equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations.

Its difficult to see how PAYG could work if some stations on the route
don't have readers - it would be a recipe for unresolved journeys.

--
Paul Terry

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers
in
place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation, would
be
first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before the
equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations.

Its difficult to see how PAYG could work if some stations on the route
don't have readers - it would be a recipe for unresolved journeys.

It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

TKD wrote:
I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers
in
place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation, would
be
first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before the
equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations.
Its difficult to see how PAYG could work if some stations on the route
don't have readers - it would be a recipe for unresolved journeys.

It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?

The technology will probably be used, but initially only to issue season
tickets on Oyster - TfL will be providing the appropriate back-office
equipment for station ticket offices.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

Marc.

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message .com,
" writes

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations,

I don't think there's any proposal for barriers at all NR stations -
just Oyster validators.

--
Paul Terry

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On 10 May 2006 09:41:22 -0700, "
wrote:


If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Wed, 10 May 2006 18:42:29 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

Tough - they have prevaricated for over 7 years on this. The DfT will
simply tell them what to do and I trust they are sensible enough to
simply get on and do it. My guess is that if they are not then the DfT
will be minded to give TfL ever greater influence / control over
services in or around London and the TOCs *really* will not like that!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Wed, 10 May 2006 17:32:59 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters.

Except PAYG Oyster isn't currently valid to intermediate stations
between Liverpool Street and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow
Central and I *know* that Seven Sisters has gates (and validators for
that matter) between the NR platforms and the Seven Sisters Road exit,
and I'm fairly certain that Walthamstow and Tottenham Hale have
validators too, though it's been a while since I visited either of them.

Walthamstow certainly has and there are plenty of bleeps when people get
off a "One" train from Liverpool St.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 May 2006 18:42:29 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

Tough - they have prevaricated for over 7 years on this. The DfT will
simply tell them what to do and I trust they are sensible enough to
simply get on and do it. My guess is that if they are not then the DfT
will be minded to give TfL ever greater influence / control over
services in or around London and the TOCs *really* will not like that!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

The TOC's don't want this because it is one step away from destroying their
fare structure for single / return tickets. Obviously TfL would like to
impose the same structure as on the Tube.

Until the franchises are renewed (as in the case of SWT) and the use of
Oyster within the zones is mandated, I think that the prevarication may
continue

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:



It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?


Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message

Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

Yay!

Ian
(in Balham!)

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Matthew Dickinson wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:


It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?


Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

Any idea whether this will be using the TfL fare structure? (£2.50
daytime / £2.00 evening & weekend)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear
to me.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?
--
Paul Terry

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear
to me.

The deal involved the DfT so they are presumably willing to exercise
their powers to move things along.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

Would that have really bothered the TOCs?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Paul Terry wrote:
In message .com,
" writes

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations,

I don't think there's any proposal for barriers at all NR stations -
just Oyster validators.


I wonder if there is any way of making it more obvious to casual
travellers that when they arrive at a station by train they need to
search for a validator on the platform?

I arrived at New Cross Gate for the first time the other day, using the
East London Line, and having touched in with my pre-pay Oyster at a
tube station. There were crowds of people on the platform so I couldn't
have seen the platform validators even if I had thought of looking for
them. Though even if I had noticed them I would probably have thought
that they were intended only for people changing between Tube and NR at
that station.

As it was I assumed that since New Cross Gate was a big station there
would be exit gates and so I followed the crowds up the stairs and
along the passageway to the main concourse. I then discovered that
there were no gates or validators there. Rather than walk all the way
back to the platforms I decided to leave the station leaving an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

Now I know that unresolved journeys are straightforward to fix at the
moment, but shouldn't LU/TfL do something to make it easier to know
when you need to look for and use a platform validator?

PaulO

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

Can't these things use batch data transfer via GSM, or whatever the bus
version uses, to prevent a need to wire them all in permanently?

Neil

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to
Oyster).
I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

Would that have really bothered the TOCs?

I'm only guessing, of course, but I imagine they might feel happier
using a product that is purely for travel purposes, rather than
something that is more obviously a "Ken Card" that could be used for a
wide range of purchases.

Also, I wonder if there might have been some issue of storage capacity
on Oyster cards? TfL said they only require half the storage capacity
for their own use - hence the possibility of incorporating data for
parking meter charges, etc. But will extending Oyster to the TOCs mean
that some of this spare capacity will be needed for NR use (e.g. linking
with ITSO, if and when it happens).

I see, incidentally, that ATOC have just appointed a "Director London"
to oversee the introduction of smart-card technology - it didn't take
them long to swallow the bitter pill. :)
--
Paul Terry

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear to
me.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

Its definitely for the best that National Rail acceptance of pay as you go
comes before e-money. It would have been an absurd and confusing situation
if you could buy a newspaper or cup of coffee with an Oyster Card at
Waterloo but not pay for your journey to Clapham Junction.

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 14:06:36 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to
Oyster).
I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

The article via the URL doesn't paint TfL in a very good light as it
implies they are clueless and didn't know what they were trying to
procure. I doubt that is actually true but I can see why a deal was
difficult to put together in a way where the risks were understood and
correctly allocated. Given that almost all the shortlisted consortia
had banks (or similar) involved I would imagine the private sector view
of risk would be very cautious indeed leaving TfL "holding the baby".
That would never get past government.

Would that have really bothered the TOCs?

I'm only guessing, of course, but I imagine they might feel happier
using a product that is purely for travel purposes, rather than
something that is more obviously a "Ken Card" that could be used for a
wide range of purchases.

If I've read the Roger Ford articles properly the TOCs want ITSO
compatibility which they are likely to get eventually. The problem is
that they have to swallow Oyster in the short term.

The commercial exploitation deal seemed to involve the replacement of
the Oyster card base with more powerful *and* ITSO compatible cards.
However that is a risky proposition and I doubt the public sector were
hugely keen to take on this risk without TfL assistance and guarantees
re disruption to passengers during any changeover to the new technology.
It is also not without its technical and fraud risks.

Also, I wonder if there might have been some issue of storage capacity
on Oyster cards? TfL said they only require half the storage capacity
for their own use - hence the possibility of incorporating data for
parking meter charges, etc. But will extending Oyster to the TOCs mean
that some of this spare capacity will be needed for NR use (e.g. linking
with ITSO, if and when it happens).

I'm not sure about how this work as I've never seen the ITSO
requirements. I do know broadly what the Oyster card spec was like at
the initial stage - I've not seen a final one.

I see, incidentally, that ATOC have just appointed a "Director London"
to oversee the introduction of smart-card technology - it didn't take
them long to swallow the bitter pill. :)

This job was advertised months back - I very nearly applied for it but I
suspect ATOC wouldn't have wanted me and I'm not sure I'm Director
material!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On 11 May 2006 05:28:54 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

Can't these things use batch data transfer via GSM, or whatever the bus
version uses, to prevent a need to wire them all in permanently?

Possibly - I confess to being out of the loop re the latest comms
methods for this type of data transport. I thought the bus system was
via the driver module and the docking station at the garage. Last time
I looked the buses were not "live" within the Oyster system. It's
possible the new radio and AVL system may provide this capability.

I suspect GSM *might* run into compatibility issues with what is
proposed with GSM-R and the ERTMS developments. I'm more probably
talking twaddle though! Cue resident expert ........

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 10:22:14 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

Matthew Dickinson wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:


It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?

Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

It was due to be implemented late last year but got postponed. It's
only between those 2 points and not intermediately (as per "One"
acceptance mentioned above).

Any idea whether this will be using the TfL fare structure? (£2.50
daytime / £2.00 evening & weekend)

I've checked some oldish documents and no mention of the fare structure
is made. I shall do a little check tomorrow.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear to
me.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

It failed for the same reason(s) that micro payments uisng mobiles
fails. The operators want 40-50p per transaction in fees and
noone is going to accept a payment method for a 30p bar of
chocolate that charges them 40p to accept.

tim


--
Paul Terry

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

tim (back at home) wrote:
It failed for the same reason(s) that micro payments uisng mobiles
fails. The operators want 40-50p per transaction in fees and
noone is going to accept a payment method for a 30p bar of
chocolate that charges them 40p to accept.

It hasn't failed in either Germany or the Netherlands. 40-50p is
outrageous, mind, given that neither a credit nor a debit card
transaction for 30p would cost anything like that much to process, even
at the outrageous prices charged for such transactions at present.

While I don't know for certain, I expect the Geldkarte and Chipknip
have had so much success because both banks and retailers wanted it -
no online authorisation, and no handling of cash. It may even be one
reason why Nederlandse Spoorwegen doesn't accept credit cards.

That said, a chip-based version issued by the banks (rather than
Oyster) would have the advantage that just about every retailer of a
significant size has a terminal, as do most cashpoints, so you could
implement it more or less exclusively using software.

Neil

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

Possibly - I confess to being out of the loop re the latest comms
methods for this type of data transport. I thought the bus system was
via the driver module and the docking station at the garage. Last time
I looked the buses were not "live" within the Oyster system. It's
possible the new radio and AVL system may provide this capability.

I believe you may be right there.

I suspect GSM *might* run into compatibility issues with what is
proposed with GSM-R and the ERTMS developments. I'm more probably
talking twaddle though! Cue resident expert ........

Doubt it. Millions of people carry mobile phones (GSM) past all manner
of Tube equipment daily without any (noticeable by the passenger)
trouble. Given suitably strong encryption, it needn't even use a
dedicated network.

Neil

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
tim (back at home) wrote:
It failed for the same reason(s) that micro payments uisng mobiles
fails. The operators want 40-50p per transaction in fees and
noone is going to accept a payment method for a 30p bar of
chocolate that charges them 40p to accept.

It hasn't failed in either Germany or the Netherlands.

As you rightly say, this is because the banks recognised
the advantages to them and didn't price it at a point that
makes it unusable.

The UK banks worked to implement a system and then
found that nobody would use it because of the prices they
were looking to charge. Rather than reduce the charges
they wrote off 100 Million in development costs (OK
perhaps they sold some of what they had implemented
elsewhere)

tim


40-50p is
outrageous, mind, given that neither a credit nor a debit card
transaction for 30p would cost anything like that much to process, even
at the outrageous prices charged for such transactions at present.

While I don't know for certain, I expect the Geldkarte and Chipknip
have had so much success because both banks and retailers wanted it -
no online authorisation, and no handling of cash. It may even be one
reason why Nederlandse Spoorwegen doesn't accept credit cards.

That said, a chip-based version issued by the banks (rather than
Oyster) would have the advantage that just about every retailer of a
significant size has a terminal, as do most cashpoints, so you could
implement it more or less exclusively using software.

Neil

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 10:51:38 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear
to me.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

I doubt it. I suspect that they were being frank when they stated that they
had trouble identifying the requirements and specifications for the work to be
carried out.

However, they should have talked to Hong Kong, where the similarly oceanic
Octopus card is able to be used for small transactions in shops and the like.

Many newsagents have Oystercard readers and it would seem to be achievable to
allow me to renew my Oystercard and buy my Grauniad at the same time.

It will come, but perhaps not for a while. Cash is expensive to handle, so any
mechanism that redues the amount of cash (especially coin) an entity must
handle will be welcomed.
--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
|http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk or
|http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrishansenhome/

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message , TKD
writes
I would imagine stations that already have barriers with Oyster readers
in place, that are currently only used for season ticket validation,
would be first. I wonder if they will let these stations go-live before
the equipment has been installed at the intermediate stations. It will
be a challenge to effectively communicate where pay as you go can be
used as the roll-out continues. Users find it difficult enough to grasp
the current static situation.
And still Londoners want to blame Ken for something instead of accepting
that this is something he's been pushing for, for years.
--
Clive

New Deal for Oyster?!
 

In message , TKD
writes
It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins
like Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London
Bridge-East Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR
opportunity to go-live on the gated stations early. The press release
says work will start on them first. Will the technology be installed
and then left idle while the other stations have gates installed?
Let me know when Victoria/Waterlloo to Clapham Junction is live, boy
will this make a difference to me.
--
Clive