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On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:54:40 GMT, "Bob Wood"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

On 14 May 2006 03:53:48 -0700, "
wrote:

I asked the oystercard people if it was possible to set the top up
threshold higher than £5. I mainly use buses, live a mile from a
tube station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top
up. Their response was:

*******

"
Please be advised that unfortunately it is not possible to change
this to £10, however if you know that your card is below £5 and want
to
top it up you can go to an underground station and swipe your card on
the yellow readers and it will top up, you do not have to make a
journey.

If you are not making a journey you will be charged a small fee
however this can be refunded from the ticket desk.
"

How much is the "small fee" for topping up? What advantages does
this have over just going to the ticket desk? Anyways I don't live
near enough to a tube station for this to be an option.



a) Since when did newsagents have the right to charge passengers
for topping up?


They don't. They don't charge. Nobody said they did.

I'm afraid the OP *did* say he was charged. Have a look above for the
row of ********.

He has later clarified that he is being charged for using a debit card
but that is still outrageous as I am damn sure the commission paid by
TfL / Transys for the top up will be greater than for a debit card txn.
Paying to transfer cash from one electronic form to another via a
further electronic form - lots of expense there isn't there?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

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Richard J. wrote:
wrote:

Sorry, may not of been absoloutely clear in the original post. The
charge is for paying by card for Oyster... They often charge 80p
for paying by credit/debit card on any transaction that includes an
Oyster part but not on transactions which don't include Oyster.

That's still outrageous. I could perhaps understand him charging a
small fee for processing a credit/debit card transaction (though it's
time that nonsense ceased), but to charge it only if Oyster is involved
is ridiculous.

I expect the profit margin on normal goods is large enough to pay the
credit card merchant fee and leave an acceptable profit, but the
commission for processing an Oyster top-up isn't.

PaulO

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"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
" typed


Hi,

I live a mile from a tube
station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top up.
Their response was:

WHAT?!?!

Are they allowed to do this?

My local newsagent does not charge. Which newsagents do?

Baffled of Burnt Oak.

Helen, they are only making a charge for using a credit card, not for
topping up the oyster card. The fact that they *only* charge this fee on
oyster is the point of contention. However, it is their business and they
can reclaim their fees any way they like. If the OP went to a cashpoint
knowing that they needed to top up their oyster card, there would be no
charge.

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In message , Richard J.
writes

I could perhaps understand him charging a small fee for processing a
credit/debit card transaction (though it's time that nonsense ceased),

Credit card payments typically cost the retailer 2.5% of the transaction
value - cheaper deals are possible (largely for big retailers) but some
systems cost much more. In addition, the retailer has to pay a monthly
hire charge for the terminal, an initial set-up fee and phone charges
for each electronic transaction.

I don't know what commission TfL offer, but it would need to more than
cover the above sums - just the Credit-card charge alone on £40 could be
more than a pound, so an 80p surcharge by a small retailer might be
considered generous.

However, debit card transactions are more reasonable - typically around
20p plus a proportion of the above expenses. In that case, an 80p
surcharge is over the top and suggests to me that the retailer hasn't
understood the big difference between credit and debit cards.
--
Paul Terry

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On 14 May 2006 03:53:48 -0700, "
wrote:

Hi,

I asked the oystercard people if it was possible to set the top up
threshold higher than £5. I mainly use buses, live a mile from a tube
station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top up.

I agree, the £5 is too low. I too normally get the bus. Why can't they
let people set their own lower limit, even if it is only a choice from
a few fixed options like £5, £10, £20. And if doing that "should I
recharge?" lookup is too much to do at the tube gate, then they should
simply do a run every night at 2am or something and top up any card
that is under it's lower limit then. Then download the list of cards
with new balances to apply to all ticket gates *and bus machines*
ready for start of service.

It's just another example of how the basic Oyster idea was good, but,
speaking as an IT Programme Manager, the implementation has been
shocking.

I am still amazed that it's not possible to examine one's trip details
on the website.

What they should have done was look at the billing systems that the
mobile phone operators use. These can make instant decisions as to
whether phones have enough credit to make a call, and can read your
prepay balance back to you after a call, and can make itemised call
lists available online; so it ought to have been dead easy for Oyster
to be similarly dynamic. So it might have meant that tube stations and
buses needed a permanent data link back to some central billing
computer, so what, bandwidth including mobile bandwidth is dirt cheap
these days.

And I still think you should raise an enquiry/complaint with TfL about
the newsagent charging 80p for a top-up even if they do claim it is to
cover card transaction fees. The shop either wants the extra business
that being a ticket agent brings (people buying cola etc at the same
time), or they don't; and they need to factor their fees of providing
the service into whether they offer it or not.

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"elyob" typed


Helen, they are only making a charge for using a credit card, not for
topping up the oyster card. The fact that they *only* charge this fee on
oyster is the point of contention. However, it is their business and they
can reclaim their fees any way they like. If the OP went to a cashpoint
knowing that they needed to top up their oyster card, there would be no
charge.

If he used the cashpoint (if there were one) at the newsagent, there
might be a £1.50 charge...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

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Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:54:40 GMT, "Bob Wood"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

On 14 May 2006 03:53:48 -0700, "
wrote:

I asked the oystercard people if it was possible to set the top up
threshold higher than £5. I mainly use buses, live a mile from a
tube station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top
up. Their response was:

*******

"
Please be advised that unfortunately it is not possible to change
this to £10, however if you know that your card is below £5 and
want to
top it up you can go to an underground station and swipe your card
on the yellow readers and it will top up, you do not have to make a
journey.

If you are not making a journey you will be charged a small fee
however this can be refunded from the ticket desk.
"

How much is the "small fee" for topping up? What advantages does
this have over just going to the ticket desk? Anyways I don't live
near enough to a tube station for this to be an option.



a) Since when did newsagents have the right to charge passengers
for topping up?


They don't. They don't charge. Nobody said they did.

I'm afraid the OP *did* say he was charged. Have a look above for the
row of ********.

He has later clarified that he is being charged for using a debit card
but that is still outrageous as I am damn sure the commission paid by
TfL / Transys for the top up will be greater than for a debit card
txn. Paying to transfer cash from one electronic form to another via a
further electronic form - lots of expense there isn't there?

I stand corrected - although it does seem to me that this is not a fee
for topping up, but for using the credit card.



--
Bob

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Phil Clark wrote:

I asked the oystercard people if it was possible to set the top up
threshold higher than £5. I mainly use buses, live a mile from a tube
station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top up.

This having to check in at a Tube station is a real pain. You can top
up on line - but again have to check in at a tube station to collect
it. It's particularly a pain for people like me who live outside
London and therefore can't top up at a local newsagent.

How do you enter London, then? If by train, presumably there's a Tube
connection at whichever mainline terminus you arrive into...?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

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Peter Frimberley wrote:
On 14 May 2006 03:53:48 -0700, "
wrote:

Hi,

I asked the oystercard people if it was possible to set the top up
threshold higher than £5. I mainly use buses, live a mile from a tube
station and the local newsagent charges 80p for an Oyster top up.

I agree, the £5 is too low. I too normally get the bus. Why can't they
let people set their own lower limit, even if it is only a choice from
a few fixed options like £5, £10, £20. And if doing that "should I
recharge?" lookup is too much to do at the tube gate, then they should
simply do a run every night at 2am or something and top up any card
that is under it's lower limit then. Then download the list of cards
with new balances to apply to all ticket gates *and bus machines*
ready for start of service.

It's just another example of how the basic Oyster idea was good, but,
speaking as an IT Programme Manager, the implementation has been
shocking.

I am still amazed that it's not possible to examine one's trip details
on the website.

What they should have done was look at the billing systems that the
mobile phone operators use. These can make instant decisions as to
whether phones have enough credit to make a call, and can read your
prepay balance back to you after a call, and can make itemised call
lists available online; so it ought to have been dead easy for Oyster
to be similarly dynamic. So it might have meant that tube stations and
buses needed a permanent data link back to some central billing
computer, so what, bandwidth including mobile bandwidth is dirt cheap
these days.
(snip)

I'm not an expert, but I imagine speed would be a problem. One of the
advantages of Oyster is meant to be the speed at which the reading
process is carried out (which is important for bus boarding - if almost
all passengers board using Oyster, dwell times are noticeably lower). If
the process always had to involve comms with a central computer, I guess
the process would be slower.

Saying that, the new AVL system for buses will add in a whole lot of
comms functionality on board buses, so regular communication to update
the on-vehicle computer will be feasible.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

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"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
"elyob" typed


Helen, they are only making a charge for using a credit card, not for
topping up the oyster card. The fact that they *only* charge this fee on
oyster is the point of contention. However, it is their business and they
can reclaim their fees any way they like. If the OP went to a cashpoint
knowing that they needed to top up their oyster card, there would be no
charge.

If he used the cashpoint (if there were one) at the newsagent, there
might be a £1.50 charge...

Exactly, think ahead and go to a bank beforehand. I have to do that with my
local pub. Still, at least when I've overspent my quota of beer money, I'm
not tempted to pull out an extra tenner ..

The comission on someone trying to add £5 on their oyster will be far less
than their charges incurred. It's a blanket rule, and I think that's fine.

It's just a bugger when your local pub ups their prices to become over £3 a
pint .. and more expensive than any pub in the area. And I still can't use
my CC.

They now want £5 to buy an England shirt to guarantee entry for the World
Cup. "No-one without a shirt is getting in". Sod that then ... I'm not
paying a pound a match.