Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Hi all -

Went to Amsterdam at the weekend; thought I'd share some of my public
transport experiences.

1) First Capital Connect London Bridge - LGW, afternoon
shoulder-of-peak. Full-ish, on time, fast. While the ex-TL route in
full-on peak time is horrible, it's one of my favourite services the
rest of the time.

2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

3) Nedrail to Centraal. Ticket machines still rubbish; we tried six
different cards on the machine at the airport that claimed to take
international credit cards before finding one that it would deign to
accept. Train fast, double-deck, clean.

4) Trams are good. Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses. Overall (and
uncontroversially), Amsterdam's public transport system is one of the
best I've ever used. Haven't tried the underground, though.

5) Nedrail back to Schiphol. More "pick a card, any card" fun at the
machines. Grimmest gripper ever - even surlier than the BA staff. I'd
hate to imagine how he'd have acted if we'd given up on the infinite
card shuffle and boarded ticketless...

6) BA to LGW. See 2).

7) FGW to Reading. Why is the North Downs Line so goddamn *slow*?
Still, at least the train was on-time, clean, comfortable, etc. No sign
of gripper.

8) FGW to Oxford. Why aren't there any fast trains in the evening? Slow
train was 15 minutes late (well, actually it was cancelled at Reading
due to a failed unit and restarted with a new one) and took 45 mins.
This is irritating, given that the fast trains take about 20.

Overall, not a bad PT experience on either side of the Channel - and as
usual, the weakest link was the plane. The card experience was
frustrating, though: do UK ticket machines treat foreign cards as
ineptly as the Dutch machines do?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message .com, at
06:15:55 on Mon, 22 May 2006, John B remarked:
The card experience was frustrating, though: do UK ticket machines
treat foreign cards as ineptly as the Dutch machines do?

Credit cards acceptance in the UK is much higher than most of
Continental Europe. I share your frustration when buying tickets in
Holland. Brussels was just as bad pre-Euro, although I think they've
upgraded many of the machines since. They'll take banknotes anyway -
another blind spot in Holland.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006, John B wrote:

4) Trams are good. Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses. Overall (and
uncontroversially), Amsterdam's public transport system is one of the
best I've ever used. Haven't tried the underground, though.

Not sure what ticket machine setup they have there, or you'd want for
London. First in York have put machines in the new bendy bus, sorry i mean
'ftr'.

Now everyone queues in the rain while people in front buy a ticket from
said machine and go sit down - it was quicker with the pay the driver
system. The only times it works is when the machine is broken .. which is
quite often so far :)

I did hope the ticket machine would enable faster boarding, and people
would get on and buy their tickets on the move. I guess the HSE wouldn't
allow things like that, people not in their seats while the bus is on the
move.

Bring back the conductors! Apart from speeding up journeys, they can bring
in some "heavy duty" ones for late night busses for example.

Cheers

Chris
--
Chris Johns

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

John B wrote:

Overall, not a bad PT experience on either side of the Channel - and as
usual, the weakest link was the plane. The card experience was
frustrating, though: do UK ticket machines treat foreign cards as
ineptly as the Dutch machines do?

I don't know, but my experience of the Schiphol machines is that you
sometimes have to try again if you pull your card out too quickly, as
that's when the strip is read.

The Centraal machines do not accept any UK credit cards, so far as I'm
aware, and only accept Maestro (not Visa) debit cards. This is the
same throughout .nl, except Schiphol (which could trip up a lot of
people).

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"John B" wrote in news:1148303755.459166.188860
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Overall, not a bad PT experience on either side of the Channel - and as
usual, the weakest link was the plane. The card experience was
frustrating, though: do UK ticket machines treat foreign cards as
ineptly as the Dutch machines do?



I use my Maestro to get train etc tickets at Amsterdam central station.
Never had a problem.

I know that many UK ticket machines do not accept Visa Electron from the
continent. In fact, many shops don't, for some reason.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"John B" wrote in message
oups.com...

4) Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses.

I've noticed that some or most of the stops on the country end of (London's)
N29 have no ticket machine, instead having an instruction to pay at the
destination.... but for short journeys, this might not be possible at all.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On 22 May 2006 06:15:55 -0700, John B wrote:
2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

Eurostar tickets NL-UK start from around 100 euros. I'm sure there must
be something comparable the other way around.

3) Nedrail to Centraal. Ticket machines still rubbish; we tried six
different cards on the machine at the airport that claimed to take
international credit cards before finding one that it would deign to
accept. Train fast, double-deck, clean.

They should accept Visa and Mastercard. I never bother, because Maestro
always works. Didn't you try that?

5) Nedrail back to Schiphol. More "pick a card, any card" fun at the
machines.

I hope you didn't try the old machines (the ones with buttons)? They
only accept coins and Dutch debit cards. They'll be replaced anytime
soon, luckily.

Grimmest gripper ever - even surlier than the BA staff. I'd
hate to imagine how he'd have acted if we'd given up on the infinite
card shuffle and boarded ticketless...

"That'll be 35 euros then please". Alternatively, you could not pay
directly but wait for the invoice from Utrecht...

Regards,

Rian

--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Rian van der Borgt wrote:

They should accept Visa and Mastercard. I never bother, because Maestro
always works. Didn't you try that?

Only about half the UK banks issue Maestro debit cards. The other half
(including mine) issue Visa Delta debit cards, which are accepted
pretty much everywhere Visa credit cards are. This is usually a bonus,
but can be awkward in .de and .nl where Maestro is far more widely
accepted.

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Rian van der Borgt wrote:

Grimmest gripper ever - even surlier than the BA staff. I'd
hate to imagine how he'd have acted if we'd given up on the infinite
card shuffle and boarded ticketless...

"That'll be 35 euros then please". Alternatively, you could not pay
directly but wait for the invoice from Utrecht...

We had a similar encounter last October, we were doing Haarlem to
Centraal, myself/girlfriend and 13yo daughter.
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).
Lady Inspector went mad when she asked how old she was.I said I didnt
know she should pay adult prices, and would pay the difference(the
ticket was only around 8euro for adult, and 6 for child).
She said there is no choice, you will pay the fine.
A commuter at the side of me then defended me (in Dutch), saying I was a
tourist and didnt know the age limit for children (which was true), the
inspector calmed down a bit, and said she would see me off at Centraal,
and buy the proper ticket, which I thought was a little strange, we got
there, and I didnt see her again.
Are they on commision for the fines?
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message , at 16:49:19 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, A.Lee remarked:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

Are they on commision for the fines?

I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Roland Perry wrote:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

Are they on commision for the fines?

I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.

Not unreasonable if you're a Brit, given that Airport Express services
all offer on-train ticket sales (and the Schiphol trains look more like
express stock than local stock).

OTOH, the EUR35 penalty fare is roughly equivalent to the cost of an
SOS on HEx or StEx, so the only difference from the tourist's PoV is a
bit of being-shouted-at-by-grumpy-Nederlander.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Roland Perry wrote:

I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.

There aren't obvious notices stating that you can't on display, and
it's accepted UK practice that unless there is a barrier check or
penalty fare scheme (the latter being well-publicised in most cases)
that it is acceptable to pay on the train so long as you want a
full-fare single, just as it is in Germany (with a surcharge).

There's always the ticket office at Schiphol (though there is a small
surcharge).

All this suggests to me that while NS is operationally very efficient,
it is highly customer-unfriendly.

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:49:19 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, A.Lee remarked:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

4 - 11yo for child fares.
This Country isnt bad at all if you have children, compared to that.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On 22 May 2006 14:56:43 GMT, (Rian van der Borgt)
wrote:

On 22 May 2006 06:15:55 -0700, John B wrote:
2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

Eurostar tickets NL-UK start from around 100 euros. I'm sure there must
be something comparable the other way around.

I'm sure there is but try finding it. Rail Europe's site is singularly
unhelpful - it quoted me a fare of almost £500 for a First Class return
to Amsterdam as apparently only business fares are available. I know
this to be incorrect but there are no options for a first class leisure
fare.

The other issue is that you can get to Brussels but Thalys is often full
and it is impossible (IME) to get a ticket covering the slower service
to Amsterdam via Eurostar's site.

I'd much rather do the journey by train but the whole system is so
unfriendly that I won't put myself through the needless complexity. The
only people who lose are Eurostar, Dutch Railways and the tourist
industry in Holland - I'll go on holiday somewhere else.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 17:07:33 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:49:19 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, A.Lee remarked:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

Child fares up to 11. When they turn 12 it's adult fares.

Are they on commision for the fines?

There's been a new policy regarding selling tickets on the train since
October last year: no tickets are sold on the train, under any
circumstances.
When you end up on the train without a ticket *and it's not your fauult
(of course this still happens), it's best *not* to pay the fine but tell
the inspector you tried to buy a ticket but failed. You will (or should)
get a "postponement of payment" paper and the central services in
Utrecht will get back to you. If they still demand the 35 euro fine, you
can then object and they may replace that by the normal fare.

Regards,

Rian

--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 16:49:19 +0100, A.Lee wrote:
Rian van der Borgt wrote:
Grimmest gripper ever - even surlier than the BA staff. I'd
hate to imagine how he'd have acted if we'd given up on the infinite
card shuffle and boarded ticketless...

"That'll be 35 euros then please". Alternatively, you could not pay
directly but wait for the invoice from Utrecht...

We had a similar encounter last October, we were doing Haarlem to
Centraal, myself/girlfriend and 13yo daughter.
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

The ticket machines (the new ones with touch screens) do mention the
maximum child age BTW...
http://webdemo.ns.nl/e2000.html

A commuter at the side of me then defended me (in Dutch), saying I was a
tourist and didnt know the age limit for children (which was true), the
inspector calmed down a bit, and said she would see me off at Centraal,
and buy the proper ticket, which I thought was a little strange [...]

The incpectors do not have means anymore to issue tickets on the train.
If they don't want to give you a fine, they don't have many options.

Regards,

Rian

--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Credit cards acceptance in the UK is much higher than most of
Continental Europe. I share your frustration when buying tickets in
Holland. Brussels was just as bad pre-Euro, although I think they've
upgraded many of the machines since. They'll take banknotes anyway -
another blind spot in Holland.
--

It's because there is quite a lot of consumer resistance to credit
cards especially in Germany where it's a cultural thing to not like
them.

Over here, of course, we eat them.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"John B" wrote in message
oups.com...

2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

BA European short haul. Variable, very very variable. I used to use EasyJet
from Liverpool, newer planes and the staff were happy too.

3) Nedrail to Centraal. Ticket machines still rubbish; we tried six
different cards on the machine at the airport that claimed to take
international credit cards before finding one that it would deign to
accept. Train fast, double-deck, clean.

Things have changed since I was out there - it costs more to queue and buy a
ticket now. Don't think the trains go that fast though. Mind you if it was a
busy time, you'd not have difficulty going faster than the traffic on the
motorway out of Schiphol.

4) Trams are good. Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses. Overall (and
uncontroversially), Amsterdam's public transport system is one of the
best I've ever used. Haven't tried the underground, though.

The tram fleet has benefitted from the recent delivery of 155 Siemens
Combinos, which has enabled all the trad Amsterdam tri-artics to be
replaced. There are AFAIK only 37 all high floor cars in the entire fleet
now (plus 45 low middle ones).

Apparently the older Metro cars have been recently refurbished. Probably as
well, I remember the original grey LHB sets as being particularly grim.

When you have a monthly ticket for the street PT, you don't miss not having
a car (and parking in Amsterdam is expensive, and you have to feed the meter
all week long, except I think Saturday night and Sunday morning).

--
Tim

Selective killfiling - because life's too short

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 17:52:11 +0100, (A.Lee) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:49:19 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, A.Lee remarked:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

4 - 11yo for child fares.
This Country isnt bad at all if you have children, compared to that.
Alan.

That can't be right - I thought everything PT-related in the UK was
worse than mainland Europe!

;-)

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Overall, not a bad PT experience on either side of the Channel - and as
usual, the weakest link was the plane. The card experience was
frustrating, though: do UK ticket machines treat foreign cards as
ineptly as the Dutch machines do?

Foreign credit cards work better in the UK but there is a draw back it is
more likely for a European traveller to use debit card as credit cards are
seen as radioactive material - these debit cards (as far as I know) won't
work in the UK unless they're of a VISA or Maestro variety, for those using
their own countries debit cards it can be a real problem.

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On 22 May 2006 06:15:55 -0700, "John B" wrote:

2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

You can sometimes save a fair chunk on the Continent by getting
separate tickets for the Eurostar and non-Eurostar legs, especially if
you can find a cheap ticket for the foreign leg (eg a Prems ticket in
France).

Or you could get the "One" stations - NS stations ticket via the ferry
for GBP25, which isn't as silly as it sounds.

4) Trams are good. Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses. Overall (and
uncontroversially), Amsterdam's public transport system is one of the
best I've ever used. Haven't tried the underground, though.

It is fairly grim, like many European metros.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message .com, at
09:20:51 on Mon, 22 May 2006, John B remarked:
OTOH, the EUR35 penalty fare is roughly equivalent to the cost of an
SOS on HEx or StEx, so the only difference from the tourist's PoV is a
bit of being-shouted-at-by-grumpy-Nederlander.

If you think £15 (HEx) is the same as EUR35, then I have a number of
£15's here that I'd be happy to exchange for your EUR35's.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On 22 May 2006 06:15:55 -0700, John B
wrote in .com:

4) Trams are good. Having ticket machines onboard is a brilliant idea
and I wish TfL would add them to the bendybuses.

I had cause to use Geneva's Route 28 fron Hôpital de la Tour to
L'Aéroport twice recently, and was amazed to find the buses equipped with
a ticket machine onboard. I don't know what it's like beyond Aéroport but
there are only two demand stops without ticket machines on the stretch I
travelled (Grand Hangar and ICC, IIRC) and I've rarely seen people board
there on the 28 or the 18. Something to keep in mind if you're running
to catch a plane and the 28 pulls up before you've had a chance to buy
your ticket, though.

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message .com, at
09:32:13 on Mon, 22 May 2006, Neil Williams
remarked:
I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.

There aren't obvious notices stating that you can't on display, and
it's accepted UK practice that unless there is a barrier check or
penalty fare scheme (the latter being well-publicised in most cases)
that it is acceptable to pay on the train so long as you want a
full-fare single, just as it is in Germany (with a surcharge).

There's always the ticket office at Schiphol (though there is a small
surcharge).

All this suggests to me that while NS is operationally very efficient,
it is highly customer-unfriendly.

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

Notices about the penalty fare (EUR35) are entirely absent - at least
English ones are, I can't read the Dutch signs. Once again, when did you
last see a Dutch sign about penalty fares in London?
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message , at 20:10:08 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, Arthur Figgis ] remarked:
Amsterdam's public transport system is one of the
best I've ever used. Haven't tried the underground, though.

It is fairly grim, like many European metros.

And not much of it is underground.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message , at 19:37:03 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, Dr Ivan D. Reid remarked:
I had cause to use Geneva's Route 28 fron Hôpital de la Tour to
L'Aéroport twice recently, and was amazed to find the buses equipped with
a ticket machine onboard.

Are those the bendy trolley buses? Almost as good as trams.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"Cheeky" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 May 2006 17:52:11 +0100, (A.Lee) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:49:19 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, A.Lee remarked:
I bought 2 adults and 1 child ticket (it is 16yo in the uk before adult
prices).

What's the age in Holland?

4 - 11yo for child fares.
This Country isnt bad at all if you have children, compared to that.
Alan.

That can't be right - I thought everything PT-related in the UK was
worse than mainland Europe!


At least they don't have penalty fares going to non-addresses or
non-identities... I wonder how much this is in the UK this happens?

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"Arthur Figgis" ] wrote in message
...
On 22 May 2006 06:15:55 -0700, "John B" wrote:

2) BA to Schiphol. An hour late arriving. Surly service, no apology for
delays. I wish through tickets on the E* and Thalys didn't cost
£300...

You can sometimes save a fair chunk on the Continent by getting
separate tickets for the Eurostar and non-Eurostar legs, especially if
you can find a cheap ticket for the foreign leg (eg a Prems ticket in
France).

Or you could get the "One" stations - NS stations ticket via the ferry
for GBP25, which isn't as silly as it sounds.


Or even Any Belgian Station from Eurostar... say to either Antwerpen or
Luik/Liege and continue your journey onto North or Middle or South
Netherlands happily... thats how I prefer it. The Stenna gets full at
certain times like School Holidays and I can well do without that
headache....

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 20:41:20 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

There are probably so few Dutch people who don't speak perfect English
that's its not worth bothering with :-)

Notices about the penalty fare (EUR35) are entirely absent - at least
English ones are, I can't read the Dutch signs. Once again, when did you
last see a Dutch sign about penalty fares in London?

FWIW, there are, or at least were, a handful of road signs in Hull in
Dutch (or possibly Flemish. Or perhaps really bad German).
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:35:42 +0100, Paul Ebbens wrote:
"Arthur Figgis" ] wrote in message
Or you could get the "One" stations - NS stations ticket via the ferry
for GBP25, which isn't as silly as it sounds.

Or even Any Belgian Station from Eurostar... say to either Antwerpen or
Luik/Liege and continue your journey onto North or Middle or South
Netherlands happily... thats how I prefer it.

Note that you only need a new ticket from Essen or Visé (it doesn't
matter if the train stops there or not). If you buy a new ticket from
Antwerp or Liège, you're paying too much...

Regards,

Rian

--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Roland Perry wrote:

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

No, but there are a lot more people flying into Schiphol who don't
speak Dutch than are flying into Heathrow and don't speak English.
However, I agree that the UK is poor in its provision for foreign
languages and should improve it (except for some odd reason mid-1980s
BR - most stickers on the Sprinters are in English, French, German and
some sort of Chinese/Japanese).

Notices about the penalty fare (EUR35) are entirely absent - at least
English ones are, I can't read the Dutch signs.

When I was last there I saw none in Dutch either (I can read it
acceptably from knowledge of German and French).

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Wow thanks Rian, I'll remember that next time.

Paul Ebbens
(part-Nederlander, part-Brit)

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"There are probably so few Dutch people who don't speak perfect English

that's its not worth bothering with :-) "

Well that is true the majority of Dutch/Flemish also know English well,
however... I have encountered people that do not understand some of the
finer 'qualities' of UK railways, so I have always learnt some people
at Harwich on what to do about where they're going and such as
sometimes... "change trains" / "overstappen" gets lost in the
translation, especially when originally they were told otherwise... :)
I wouldnt mind doing that for my life... helping the bewildered with my
dutch (simple as it may be, so far I can recall approximately 100
people (mostly in groups) over 4 years I've helped find where they want
to go... so its not bad for this unpaid 'helping hand' :)

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message .com, at
09:32:13 on Mon, 22 May 2006, Neil Williams remarked:
I dunno, but from conversations overheard on the train I get the
impression that a lot of tourists dodge the Schiphol-Centraal fare;
either because the machines defeat them, or they "genuinely" think they
can buy a ticket on the train.

There aren't obvious notices stating that you can't on display, and
it's accepted UK practice that unless there is a barrier check or
penalty fare scheme (the latter being well-publicised in most cases)
that it is acceptable to pay on the train so long as you want a
full-fare single, just as it is in Germany (with a surcharge).

There's always the ticket office at Schiphol (though there is a small
surcharge).

All this suggests to me that while NS is operationally very efficient,
it is highly customer-unfriendly.

I agree that the ticket machines are unfriendly in terms of payment
method. But they *do* have instructions in English to get a ticket to
Centraal/Schiphol - that's a lot better than most systems; does a LUL
ticket machine at Heathrow have instructions in Dutch??

While I don't think they can manage Dutch, the touchscreen ticket machines
at most LU stations do have a choice of half a dozen or so different
languages.

Peter Smyth

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

In message , at 00:01:40 on Tue,
23 May 2006, Peter Smyth remarked:
While I don't think they can manage Dutch, the touchscreen ticket machines
at most LU stations do have a choice of half a dozen or so different
languages.

I hadn't noticed that. Will give it a try next time I'm in London.
--
Roland Perry

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

allan tracy wrote:

It's because there is quite a lot of consumer resistance to credit
cards especially in Germany where it's a cultural thing to not like
them.

Looking at German banks' websites, I don't think I'd have one over
there. The charges (including annual charges, which are now pretty
much unknown over here) are extortionate, and the interest rates poor.

Over here, of course, we eat them.

Indeed. They can be very useful for such things as interest-free loans
(on 0% cards) and consumer protection. I use mine extensively, but
apart from 400 quid on a 0% card which I'm planning to have paid off
before the 0% period ends I always pay at the end of the month, and
thus never incur interest charges.

They are also useful for delaying payment while an expense claim is
paid, and for spending abroad (with the noted exceptions).

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Rian van der Borgt wrote:

There's been a new policy regarding selling tickets on the train since
October last year: no tickets are sold on the train, under any
circumstances.

Are there any stations which have only the new ticket machines, and
thus no means of payment in cash? If so that is a decidedly dubious
policy.

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm sure there is but try finding it. Rail Europe's site is singularly
unhelpful - it quoted me a fare of almost £500 for a First Class return
to Amsterdam as apparently only business fares are available. I know
this to be incorrect but there are no options for a first class leisure
fare.

Try booking it in 2 bits, the E* via their site and Thalys via theirs
(or DB). You can always check availability first.

The other issue is that you can get to Brussels but Thalys is often full
and it is impossible (IME) to get a ticket covering the slower service
to Amsterdam via Eurostar's site.

Buy that on the day at Midi if you need to. Reservations are not
required, and IMX, except in the height of summer, they're not even
helpful - the Benelux-Treinen are pretty long, traditional LHCS trains.
As with the Oostende-Koeln D-Zug (though the ICE is still there and is
a good choice, as is the local service), it'll be a sad day when these
are Thalys-ed when the HSL Zuid opens.

I'd much rather do the journey by train but the whole system is so
unfriendly that I won't put myself through the needless complexity. The
only people who lose are Eurostar, Dutch Railways and the tourist
industry in Holland - I'll go on holiday somewhere else.

I do agree with that.

Neil

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:07:48 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote in :
In message , at 19:37:03 on
Mon, 22 May 2006, Dr Ivan D. Reid remarked:
I had cause to use Geneva's Route 28 fron Hôpital de la Tour to
L'Aéroport twice recently, and was amazed to find the buses equipped with
a ticket machine onboard.

Are those the bendy trolley buses? Almost as good as trams.

No, the 28 is a diesel bus service. The 10 is the only trolley bus
I've noted in my travels between Aéroport and CERN -- but then again I only
made my first foray into the centre of Geneva last Friday night, after
four years of working at CERN! (CHF142 for 10l of beer, I'll probably
leave it another 4 years before I go again...)

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

Some better, some worse - Amsterdam
 

On 23 May 2006 02:24:15 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm sure there is but try finding it. Rail Europe's site is singularly
unhelpful - it quoted me a fare of almost £500 for a First Class return
to Amsterdam as apparently only business fares are available. I know
this to be incorrect but there are no options for a first class leisure
fare.

Try booking it in 2 bits, the E* via their site and Thalys via theirs
(or DB). You can always check availability first.

Well yes - the question still remains as to why I should go through all
this nonsense. There either is a through ticket or there is not. Bring
back BR International at Victoria. The service might have been slow but
at least it worked and the people behind the desk knew what they were
selling.

The other issue is that you can get to Brussels but Thalys is often full
and it is impossible (IME) to get a ticket covering the slower service
to Amsterdam via Eurostar's site.

Buy that on the day at Midi if you need to. Reservations are not
required, and IMX, except in the height of summer, they're not even
helpful - the Benelux-Treinen are pretty long, traditional LHCS trains.

Do you mean half full? I have used these a number of years ago and would
agree that it's a decent if somewhat slow service.

As with the Oostende-Koeln D-Zug (though the ICE is still there and is
a good choice, as is the local service), it'll be a sad day when these
are Thalys-ed when the HSL Zuid opens.

If HSL Zuid ever opens. It is extremely depressing reading about the
mess that Dutch Railways and railway policy in the Netherlands seems to
have become. They seem to be hell bent on copying the absolute worst
aspects of UK policy and project delivery. The Dutch government are
also being "done over" by the private sector when it comes to the
operational concepts for HSL Zuid and also the Betuwe freight line.

I'd much rather do the journey by train but the whole system is so
unfriendly that I won't put myself through the needless complexity. The
only people who lose are Eurostar, Dutch Railways and the tourist
industry in Holland - I'll go on holiday somewhere else.

I do agree with that.

And what a shame given that it's a great country with good, friendly
people (IME).
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!