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New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message , Roland Perry
writes MML still accept off-peak Travelcards in the evening rush, so this may shift even more of the Luton/Bedford crowd off Thameslink and onto MML. Are you sure about that? I just complained to FCC about the fact that their new pocket timetables no longer show the morning peak restrictions with darker shading, as all Thameslink ones did (and their own first attempt did also). In their reply they also told me about the new evening peak restrictions, which they say also apply to departures from St.Pancras - and only MML runs trains from there. I will check by emailing MML customer services, but they usually take ages to reply, which means getting an answer before the restrictions come into force is unlikely. -- Clive Page |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message .com, Paul
Oter writes Journeys entirely within the travelcard area are not affected, it says... Indeed, as there have never been time limits on use of travelcards (once they start to be valid after the morning peak). But this brings in some other silly anomalies, e.g. on a slow train you could use a 1-day travelcard bought, say, from Luton quite validly on the crowded section from King's Cross to Elstree, but not on the section from Elstree to Luton, where the passenger loadings will be significantly lower. -- Clive Page |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message , at 21:30:54 on Tue, 6
Jun 2006, Sarah Brown remarked: My reasoning is that when I go to London, I can buy a standard return (and therefore use peak time trains), and use the Oyster for Underground travel. Is that cheaper than buying a Peak Travelcard (which are still valid on all trains)? At the moment I'm buying a day return from Cambridge to London/Travelcard combined ticket. An off-Peak Travelcard? -- Roland Perry |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message , at 21:30:54 on Tue, 6
Jun 2006, Sarah Brown remarked: So what's to stop Cambridge travellers buying an Ely-London cheap day return and using that? Does the small print prevent this? Will the ticket offices at Cambridge sell that one? All ticket offices are required to sell all tickets, but they may moan and tell you not to "try to beat the system". However, it's their system, and they are beating *you* at every possible opportunity... -- Roland Perry |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message , at 00:03:51 on Wed, 7
Jun 2006, Clive Page remarked: MML still accept off-peak Travelcards in the evening rush, so this may shift even more of the Luton/Bedford crowd off Thameslink and onto MML. Are you sure about that? I just complained to FCC about the fact that their new pocket timetables no longer show the morning peak restrictions with darker shading, as all Thameslink ones did (and their own first attempt did also). In their reply they also told me about the new evening peak restrictions, which they say also apply to departures from St.Pancras - and only MML runs trains from there. I will check by emailing MML customer services, but they usually take ages to reply, which means getting an answer before the restrictions come into force is unlikely. The FCC leaflet is at: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...DL_Leaflet.pdf but the headline wording is somewhat misleading, even for a railway publication. It says: "The return portions of Cheap Day Return, One Day off-peak Travelcard, Family Travelcard and DaySave tickets are no longer valid on services departing from Moorgate, King’s Cross, King’s Cross Thameslink and St Pancras between 1630 and 1901 Monday to Friday." But the rest of the leaflet goes on the describe a regime where only *some* return portions aren't valid. You really need to see the leaflet to understand, but they've chopped their lines into Zones A,B,C,D and E, and only banned the travel between B and D. That's journeys originating in the Central area between East Croydon and WestHampstead/Finsbury Park, *which also* terminate in an outer area between Potters Bar and Peterborough/Waterbeach All other travel is still OK, for example from the centre to Ely or further north; or to destinations south of Elstree/Hadley Wood/Crews Hill, and south of Redhill. Looking at it from another perspective, all they are targeting is people originating in Central London travelling to places between about half an hour and one hour away. What's missing from the mix is any detail with regard to the Zoning for the alleged similar restrictions by GNER and MML. It's feasible, if they adopt the same system, that MML will only be targetting (eg) Off-peak travelcards issued at stations from Bedford south, and that tickets to stations further north will still be accepted, being in MML's equivalent of the Zone E [nb. That assumes they still offer Travelcards from stations further north, yesterday I was struggling to find a Kettering Travelcard after July 6th]. Savers have much smaller (1 hour) restricted window; if MML or GNER adopt that much more lenient approach I'd be dancing in the streets. ps. A final point for the pedants - these rules are from 11th June, but what if I bought my saver a few weeks ago and haven't yet used the return portion (or indeed either portion). Can they change its availability "under my feet" so to speak? -- Roland Perry |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
You cannot buy an ODTC travelcard online more than a month in advance.
Whether this is an actual rule or a vagary of the programming I don't know but it's certainly been the case for a while. And break of journey is permitted in both directions on CDR tickets - it's only saver/supersaver where it's return journey only. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Sam Holloway said the following:
You can certainly buy tickets from Ely that start at Cambridge (e.g. if you hold Ely-Cam season ticket and want to travel to London, you can buy the Cam-London part from Ely). .... and if you do that it's always worth bearing in mind that your 'gold card' season ticket *counts* as a network rail card, so gives you a third off for off-peak travel. And you can get that discount for up to three (I think) people travelling with you, too. And you can each upgrade to first class for £3 (subject to various T&Cs). The folk at Ely train station tell me that I'm about the only person to ask for the discount ... which might have something to do with it not being very well advertised... Stuart. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Stuart Bell wrote:
... and if you do that it's always worth bearing in mind that your 'gold card' season ticket *counts* as a network rail card, so gives you a third off for off-peak travel. And you can get that discount for up to three (I think) people travelling with you, too. And you can each upgrade to first class for ?3 (subject to various T&Cs). The folk at Ely train station tell me that I'm about the only person to ask for the discount ... which might have something to do with it not being very well advertised... And if this is the sort of thing you do often but don't have a Gold Card, you can buy a Gold Card from Ryde St John's Road to Ryde Esplanade for 112ukp, which also gets you a network card discount with no ten-pound minimum fare M-F. Trips to the Isle of Wight not required. Theo |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... I've forgotten which ticket types are subject to controls as part of the privatisation process - I assume CDRs are not part of the regulated bundle of ticket types? I can vaguely understand why an Inter City train operator may wish to impose some restrictions on some journeys but this is blatant profiteering by First. It must also have been endorsed by the DfT as part of accepting the franchise proposals - I wonder when GoVia will introduce the same policy on the South Eastern franchise. Yes probably the franchise documents state that "attempts to reduce crowded trains must be made" and of course being a TOC, rather than increasing train lengths to a reasonable length, in their eyes, price the "cheapees" off the crowded trains. Simple economics for them... simple chaos for the rest of us mortals... Paul |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Theo Markettos wrote:
... and if you do that it's always worth bearing in mind that your 'gold card' season ticket *counts* as a network rail card, so gives you a third off for off-peak travel. And you can get that discount for up to three (I think) people travelling with you, too. And you can each upgrade to first class for ?3 (subject to various T&Cs). The folk at Ely train station tell me that I'm about the only person to ask for the discount ... which might have something to do with it not being very well advertised... And if this is the sort of thing you do often but don't have a Gold Card, you can buy a Gold Card from Ryde St John's Road to Ryde Esplanade for 112ukp, which also gets you a network card discount with no ten-pound minimum fare M-F. Trips to the Isle of Wight not required. Although this is (pretty much) only worth doing instead of paying £20 for a Network Card if you: a) make somewhere around 40[*] sub-£15 trips a year within the Network area that involve leaving after 10AM; or: b) care about the off-peak first-class upgrade bit. Since acquiring my Network Card I've run into problem (a) once [**], and I use the London-suburban rail network a lot. [*] if the average sub-£15 trip costs £7.50, the average saving you'd get with a Gold Card but not a Network Card is £2.50. [**] actually the combination of problem (a) and my own stupidity - I could have bought a Saver for the relevant journey, which would have brought me above the crucial £15 undiscounted barrier, but the Saver fare was 50p more than the price of two cheap singles and I forgot about the £10 minimum until the final screen on the machine. At which point I pressed "confirm" and put my card in anyway before realising what I'd done... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Duncan wrote:
"The return portion of these tickets is restricted if you join a northbound train within area B of the London Travelcard Area on the route map overleaf, but is unrestricted if you join a northbound train in area C or D." Which should probably have read as follows:- "The return portion of these ticket types is restricted if you hold the return half of a ticket with the outward destination[1] within area B of the London Travelcard Area on the route map overleaf, and the origin within area D (or whatever it was), but is unrestricted if you hold the return half of such a ticket with the outward destination within area C or D." I do not believe there is any scope within the fares system to implement precisely what is being described above, as there may exist Saver fares over which FCC have no control which may nonetheless be valid on their services. I suspect they have simplified it to make it easier to understand, but have instead introduced confusion and theoretical loopholes. The way restrictions work, the flow (origin and destination) is important as restrictions are defined in those terms. [1] I cannot think of a better wording. Hopefully you know what I mean... Neil |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Interestingly, it also states that travelling south is not affected at
all. So you can still get use a CDR to travel back to East Croydon or Gatwick between 4pm and 7pm. This is due of course to 'keeping consistency with other operators who run south of London'... effectively saying that they can't implement it, otherwise everyone would go on Southern instead! |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Peter Masson wrote: As I read the leaflet you can use any ODTC, including an out-boundary one, for an evening peak journey entirely within the Travelcard zones. Yes, and there is no way they can ever change this. You can always use an off-peak travelcard, irrespective of the origin point, on any train for any journey within the travelcard zones. So yes you CAN use a Luton or Bedford to London all zones off peak travelcard between London and Elstree & Borehamwood, without restriction, and there is no way they can ever stop you. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Stewart Brodie wrote:
So we've had the removal of the refreshments services Silly, as it wasn't costing First anything to have and seemed like a good customer benefit! removal of the onboard announcements from the lovely lady Not sure we can blame them for this. Sure, they haven't been able to re-record the 'West Anglia Great Northern' bit, but it seems the issue is with drivers too lazy to set the system up (and, they're the same drivers from before). The 317's now have screens, but they're yet to be enabled to do anything more than tell the time (badly in many cases). and now bans on actually travelling by train. A silly one too, as you can get around it in a number of ways (well, not so easily to Cambridge, but certainly other stations just outside the Travelcard area). I wonder what other improvements First have lined up? A move to diesel stock to solve problems with stock? If they bid for the Central Trains franchise, they would then continue north of Peterborough with diesel too, which might be considered a good thing. Shame, then, that's it all just rumour at the moment. I notice that they've made a start on their number one priority: repainting the trains or putting stickers on the side. Actually, they've done one Thameslink train and one GN train.. the rest all being stickered up (except 317's which First have forgotten about completely). Are they allowed to change the terms & conditions of tickets that have already been issued? e.g. if I'd bought my Saver ticket 3 weeks ago (it allows the return journey up to 1 month from the ticket date) I'd guess not. I wouldn't worry though. They're not allowed to issue penalty fares, so can only charge the difference. Just travel as normal and you'll probably find the grippers won't have time to deal with all the problems they're going to have. Fare evaders will get off scot free meanwhile. Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Stuart Bell wrote:
... and if you do that it's always worth bearing in mind that your 'gold card' season ticket *counts* as a network rail card, so gives you a third off for off-peak travel. If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me during the restricted evening period? Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket? Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message .com, at
15:21:44 on Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Jonathan Morris remarked: I wonder what other improvements First have lined up? A move to diesel stock to solve problems with stock? If they bid for the Central Trains franchise, they would then continue north of Peterborough with diesel too, which might be considered a good thing. Shame, then, that's it all just rumour at the moment. FFC's leaflet about evening restrictions appears to rule out any stock enhancement on the KX-Cambridge line. The CT franchise is being split up, and the Cambridge services will form part of two *different* new franchises. First can't cherry-pick just one service to run, it's the whole new franchise or nothing. Stansted/Cambridge/Peterborough/Birmingham will be part of the new Cross-Country franchise (which is losing Reading-Brighton and Manchester-Glasgow). Liverpool/Nottingham/Peterborough/Ely/Norwich will (in addition to the other ex-CT services in the east) become part of a much enlarged new Midland Mainline franchise. Apparently, if 'one' agree to run an additional train from Norwich to Peterborough every two hours, then every other Liverpool-Norwich train will be sent to Cambridge instead. So there's a possibility that Cambridge will end up with trains from 'one', FCC, Sucessor-to-Virgin-XC, and successor-to-MML. Whatever happens, I won't get my direct Nottingham-Stansteds back, though :( -- Roland Perry |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message , Duncan
writes Could be interesting to see how they can enforce these restrictions, since a passenger holding a Travelcard may use the service until Elstree without restriction and passengers joining from Cricklewood travelling North can travel without restriction. http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...DL_Leaflet.pdf The small print has been fairly carefully worded to restrict travel according to the journey you are making, not just the type of ticket you use. This is presumably intended to cover the case of passengers from the outer zones (say Bedford) buying (a) a cheap day return Bedford-Elstree, and also (b) a London one-day travel-card from Elstree. My understanding is that these could legally be combined on a train which did not stop at Elstree, since one is a zonal ticket and the other is not, and the combined cost would not be much more than the London one day travel-card from Bedford. But the "journey" restrictions might prevent returning from London to Bedford in the peak-period. (I have used examples on the Bedford line, but similar remarks would apply to the other FCC lines affected by the new restrictions). On the other hand if you got a train which actually stopped at Elstree, alighted for a moment, and then boarded the same train again, could you claim to be making two separate journeys, each one not subject to the evening peak restriction? I suspect that the train companies would claim that this was just one journey not two, but how they would prove that you boarded the same train and not another one, I don't know. The matter will probably have to be tested in court. I just hope I'm not the first one to have to test it that way. -- Clive Page |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Jonathan Morris wrote:
If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me during the restricted evening period? Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket? Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, which would be valid. (Just like you can buy Network Card discounted Standard Day Singles as well as Cheap Day Singles, in some cases paying extra for no benefit) Or does using a GC make it a different ticket type and so not a normal Travelcard at all? Theo |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:46:03 +0100, Clive Page wrote:
This is presumably intended to cover the case of passengers from the outer zones (say Bedford) buying (a) a cheap day return Bedford-Elstree, and also (b) a London one-day travel-card from Elstree. My understanding is that these could legally be combined on a train which did not stop at Elstree, since one is a zonal ticket and the other is not, Nope - the rule you are thinking of says that *both* tickets must be zonal. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Clive Page wrote:
On the other hand if you got a train which actually stopped at Elstree, alighted for a moment, and then boarded the same train again, could you claim to be making two separate journeys, each one not subject to the evening peak restriction? I suspect that the train companies would claim that this was just one journey not two They probably will, but you can do what you like with a Zone 1-6 Travelcard, which is the part you would be using up to Elstree & Borehamwood or Hadley Wood (GN) and whatever the boundary is on the Hertford Loop. If you step off and back on, you're now using the standard ticket and are perfectly entitled to. It's silly having to do it, but First CANNOT do a thing. They know it, but figure most people (i.e. Joe Public) won't. For example, even if I told my parents such a trick, I know for a fact they wouldn't do it because they'd feel guilty for being seen to 'beat the system'. It might also be rather inconvenient to do, yet if you didn't, then they COULD excess you - assuming they were there to see that you didn't get off and back on! I doubt they can tighten up the rules either, unless they can suddenly stop accepting travelcards. Users with ordinary CDRs cannot use this 'trick' as I'm not sure you can do a BOJ, but if you avoid the barriers (e.g. Finsbury Park and nearly all the GN line) then I'd certainly not pay the extra unless caught. There's no penalty, so why pay the extra if you don't have to? I'm a commuter, paying £2500 a year, and I travel on either the 1753 or 1823 services from KGX and they're never so packed that FCC need to implement such a silly policy for others. By rights I should support it, but it seems many commuters think it's crazy too! If you have no ticket at all, however, then I hope you get prosecuted!! First.. they're certainly "transforming travel" alright! Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
DERWENT New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to
Cambridge 11 Jun 2006 18:19:50 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos Jonathan Morris wrote: If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me during the restricted evening period? Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket? Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, Can you get these? The local ticket machines I use don't have discouted Peak Travelcards among the optiosn you ge when you press the railcard button... What do the Gold card T&Cs state? PRAR -- http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/ As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists. NB Anti-spam measures in force - If you must email me use the Reply to address and not |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Theo Markettos wrote:
Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, which would be valid. (Just like you can buy Network Card discounted Standard Day Singles as well as Cheap Day Singles, in some cases paying extra for no benefit) Or does using a GC make it a different ticket type and so not a normal Travelcard at all? Yes it is an ordinary ticket with a discount, but as it's marked differently then it may well be the case that they need to *specifically* include it in their list of exclusions. It seems that there are many other things that are open to interpretation. Also, and this is rather silly and pedantic I know, but Gold Card ticket holders must travel with me. So, I could possibly argue that I am entitled to travel between 1630 and 1901, so why can't they? Why should I now be restricted for my journey in the peak rate? I know the honest answer is to buy the peak ticket, but I know that if I go into London in the week (e.g. taking a day off), then there's no way I'll know when I am going back home. This is why I think such a move for First stinks! They say they do what we want them to do, not what they think we want them to do - but I don't remember asking for this? Does anyone else? Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Jonathan Morris wrote: I'm a commuter, paying £2500 a year, and I travel on either the 1753 or 1823 services from KGX and they're never so packed that FCC need to implement such a silly policy for others. By rights I should support it, but it seems many commuters think it's crazy too! If you have no ticket at all, however, then I hope you get prosecuted!! First.. they're certainly "transforming travel" alright! Jonathan I travelled on the 1823 a few weeks ago and this two-unit train certainly wasn't busy. Far better would have been to ban certain busy trains - e.g 1815 Cambridge and others which are already full to spread the loadings. The stupid thing now will be that the first few trains after 1900 will be jam packed since they are only 4-coach e.g. 1906 Cambridge, 1906 Peterborough. I expect that the 8-coach 1915 Cambridge is also a popular train already and so on. Similarly, many northbound Thameslink services after 1900 are only 4 coach trains. Are they going to change the stock diagrams to reflect this change? The timetables do not appear to have changed. How can they predict which services should be reduced in length? Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
PRAR wrote: DERWENT New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge 11 Jun 2006 18:19:50 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos Jonathan Morris wrote: If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me during the restricted evening period? Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket? Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, Can you get these? The local ticket machines I use don't have discouted Peak Travelcards among the optiosn you ge when you press the railcard button... What do the Gold card T&Cs state? PRAR -- Peak day travelcards cannot be discounted by any railcard even if used off-peak |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
On 11 Jun 2006 12:13:40 -0700, Jonathan Morris wrote:
Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, which would be valid. (Just like you can buy Network Card discounted Standard Day Singles as well as Cheap Day Singles, in some cases paying extra for no benefit) Or does using a GC make it a different ticket type and so not a normal Travelcard at all? Yes it is an ordinary ticket with a discount, but as it's marked differently then it may well be the case that they need to *specifically* include it in their list of exclusions. I don't think so. It's the same ticket type; you just pay a different price for it. Also, and this is rather silly and pedantic I know, but Gold Card ticket holders must travel with me. So, I could possibly argue that I am entitled to travel between 1630 and 1901, so why can't they? Why should I now be restricted for my journey in the peak rate? I know the honest answer is to buy the peak ticket, but I know that if I go into London in the week (e.g. taking a day off), then there's no way I'll know when I am going back home. Buy the cheaper ticket. If you need to return on a "peak" train, excess the ticket to the more expensive type. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Clive Page wrote:
The small print has been fairly carefully worded to restrict travel according to the journey you are making, not just the type of ticket you use. ....which, AIUI, they are not allowed to do, because restrictions are specified by flow and train. It's just a simplified wording, just like the ones on the IC TOCs are for SVRs. Neil |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
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New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
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New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
On 12 Jun 2006 03:47:08 -0700, "Jonathan Morris"
wrote: The 1753 should be 8-car, and the 1823 will be 6-car. If there's any fault, they'll bring out a 4-car train from Hornsey and that can get a little crowded - but people are often told that first class is declassified (and even if they're not toldt, it always is on any 23/53 train). I queried FCC on exactly this point a month ago, referencing the 1753. Their reply made it clear that if I used the first class section to my local station (Oakleigh Park) without paying a first class fare, I would be liable to a penalty fare. Regrettably, the reply failed to tell me what the first class fare is (and I did ask). Regards, Clive -- Clive R Robertson -- AS/400 Programmer. Webmaster of http://www.osterleypark.org.uk/ -- this describes a beautiful National Trust property in West London. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
[cam.transport removed - the server forbids me to post to it] On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Clive R Robertson wrote: I queried FCC on exactly this point a month ago, referencing the 1753. Their reply made it clear that if I used the first class section to my local station (Oakleigh Park) without paying a first class fare, I would be liable to a penalty fare. Regrettably, the reply failed to tell me what the first class fare is (and I did ask). I reckon that's because there isn't one. At least not a point to point fare (there might be season tickets?). Qjump's complete list of fares contains exactly one entry - a "standard day single". That's it. |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Clive R Robertson wrote:
I queried FCC on exactly this point a month ago, referencing the 1753. Their reply made it clear that if I used the first class section to my local station (Oakleigh Park) without paying a first class fare, I would be liable to a penalty fare. Regrettably, the reply failed to tell me what the first class fare is (and I did ask). I take my hat off to you for getting a response from FCC on anything, even if it was complete rubbish! There's no first class on the service. Even in the new timetable, where it is now the 1752, it's clearly not marked. On at least one 317, the seat covers and the 'next compartment is 1st class only' vinyls have even been removed! If you /could/ buy a 1st class ticket, imagine how annoyed you would be when you got a 313 with no first class section! That's exactly why there's no advertised service because it gives them the flexibility on stock they wouldn't have otherwise. Some passengers that get grief (and it's very rare now as the grippers are usually aware and save themselves the embarrassment) have letters obtained from Wagn to show inspectors. Now, consider that FCC still work out of the London Lines office in Old Street.. so it's probably the same member of staff that told you the exact opposite of what they said before! Jonathan |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
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New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Source? NRE Journey Planner:- CHEAP DAY Train Operator Most Train Operating Companies Booking Deadlines No deadline - walk up fare Discounts Discounts are available for all railcard holders Refunds Full refund if wholly unused minus cancellation fee of GBP7.50 if processed online, or if processed at call centre. Changes To Travel Plans GBP10.00 admin charge plus upgrade to next appropriate walk up fare. Conditions Reservations are not essential but are recommended on certain services. Return journey must be made on same day as outward travel. Break Of Journey Valid for break of journey on outward and return portion of ticket Availability Available on most off-peak journeys on any days. Validity Only valid for off peak travel on date shown on ticket. Not valid for travel on some Monday to Friday peak services, especially to/from London. Definition of peak period is dependent on route. There do exist CDRs with a specific no Break of Journey restriction, but I have personally never come across one, and they're rare enough that staff would probably not know about them. Neil |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In message gemini.j0epiy000rv9r03k8.stewart.brodie@ntlworld. com,
Stewart Brodie writes So we've had the removal of the refreshments services, removal of the onboard announcements from the lovely lady, and now bans on actually travelling by train. I wonder what other improvements First have lined up? On the ex-Thameslink line, the new pocket timetables no longer show by shading which morning trains count as 'peak hour' so requiring expensive tickets. When I complained, the reply was that this was to impose uniformity with their other lines, where they have, apparently, never bothered to show such useful information. This reveals quite well, I think, the quality of the management of this company. I thought that it would be impossible for any company to make one hanker for the days of Thameslink, but I was wrong. On the Brighton-Bedford service, as well, the reliability has gone down a lot since First Capital Connect took over. -- Clive Page |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Just got this in - does this mean protestors have won the war?
http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp...on_rail_routes Thursday, 29th June 2006 14:23 FirstGroup backs down on plans for fare restrictions on London rail routes LONDON (AFX) - UK rail and bus operator FirstGroup PLC is changing its plans for new restrictions on rail fares on its London routes after pressure from passenger watchdogs. First said it is reducing the number of stations affected by the new restrictions introduced on June 11 after complaints from London Travelwatch and Passenger Focus. The company, which took over the Thameslink and Great Northern rail routes from National Express Group PLC in April, banned the use of cheap day returns on northbound weekday services from London to stations outside the London Travelcard zones between 4.30pm and 7pm. First said the measure was primarily designed to reduce overcrowding and said it was only expected to result in a small increase in revenue. However, watchdogs criticised the measures, saying they effectively represented large fare increases and would discourage public transport use. A FirstGroup spokesman said the company had decided to make the changes, which reportedly involve cutting the number of stations affected by the restrictions from 37 to 27, after meeting the watchdogs yesterday. 'After a fruitful discussion with London Travelwatch and Passenger Focus, we have agreed to changes to these restrictions to address issues raised by the groups,' he said. The spokesman added that First plans to try to ease the overcrowding problem in the longer term by acquiring extra rolling stock from other operators and investigating potential infrastructure improvements. paw/nes Paul Oter wrote: New ticket restrictions have been announced with effect from next Monday to services which depart from King's Cross to Cambridge in the evening peak. This was expected but this is the first time I've seen a definitive announcement. According to a new leaflet "Ticket Changes from 11th June 2006", from that date "the return portion of Cheap Day return, One (sic) Day Travelcard (off-peak), Family Travelcard and DaySave tickets are no longer valid on services departing from [King's Cross and Moorgate] between 1630 and 1901 Monday to Friday. In addition to this Network AwayBreaks and Saver tickets are not valid on services which depart from these services between 1730 and 1830 Monday to Friday." These restrictions apply to passengers returning from a variety of inner London stations to stations between Potters Bar to Waterbeach inclusive. The leaflet explicitly states that passengers returning to Ely and points north thereof are not affected. Similar restrictions have been introduced to Peterborough and on the Thameslink route to Bedford. PaulO |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
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New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article .com, (Rob) wrote: A FirstGroup spokesman said the company had decided to make the changes, which reportedly involve cutting the number of stations affected by the restrictions from 37 to 27, after meeting the watchdogs yesterday. Anyone know which stations this affects? -- Colin Rosenstiel I've managed to leave the ES on the train, but it was mainly smaller stations, including from what I can remember Welwyn Garden City, Potters Bar and others around there. Not Cambridge or Bedford though! |
New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to Cambridge
In article om,
(SamB) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article .com, (Rob) wrote: A FirstGroup spokesman said the company had decided to make the changes, which reportedly involve cutting the number of stations affected by the restrictions from 37 to 27, after meeting the watchdogs yesterday. Anyone know which stations this affects? I've managed to leave the ES on the train, but it was mainly smaller stations, including from what I can remember Welwyn Garden City, Potters Bar and others around there. Not Cambridge or Bedford though! :-(( -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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