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Shoreditch RIP
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 IIRC, this will be the first station closure on the Underground since Aldwych, North Weald and Ongar closed (on the same day) in 1994. However, there has been a subsequent line closure - Green Park to Charing Cross when the Jubilee Line Extension opened. The closure also brings to an end the most unusual service pattern on the Underground: M-F peaks and Sunday until mid-afternoon only. Chris |
Shoreditch RIP
"Chris Read" wrote in message ... Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Thankyou for the reminder. I must try hard to get there early Friday morning and 'do' the ELL in full for the first, and in this way, last time. I have a personal interest in this station as it is located on Pedley Street.... Nick Pedley |
Shoreditch RIP
I am also very grateful for the reminder. I will pay my provisional last
respects to-morrow, as I may not be able to make Friday night. If I possibly can, I'll be there at the death. Adrian |
Shoreditch RIP
"Chris Read" wrote in
: Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 IIRC, this will be the first station closure on the Underground since Aldwych, North Weald and Ongar closed (on the same day) in 1994. However, there has been a subsequent line closure - Green Park to Charing Cross when the Jubilee Line Extension opened. The closure also brings to an end the most unusual service pattern on the Underground: M-F peaks and Sunday until mid-afternoon only. Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June. As a Brick Lane fan, this station will be sorely missed. I was there just last night, when I went to the Vibe Bar on Brick Lane to have a few jars - that turned out to be quite a lot of jars in the end. I hope they've made the right decision. Personally, I'm not convinced. |
Shoreditch RIP
Tristán White wrote:
I hope they've made the right decision. Personally, I'm not convinced. Why do you think that? |
Shoreditch RIP
Chris Read:
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Tristán White: Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June. I suggest that this is not an error as such, but the standard problem of whether to report a closure date as "last day of service" or "first day of no service". What's the actual wording on the map? -- Mark Brader "All this government stuff, in other words, Toronto is not reading matter, but prefabricated parts of quarrels." -- Rudolf Flesch |
Shoreditch RIP
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Shoreditch RIP
"Mark Brader" wrote in message ... Chris Read: Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Tristán White: Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June. I suggest that this is not an error as such, but the standard problem of whether to report a closure date as "last day of service" or "first day of no service". What's the actual wording on the map? The Tube/TfL website states that "Shoreditch station will close permanently after the end of service on Friday 9 June". http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...me/planned.asp Online Tube map says "Station closes permanently in June 2006". I assume this is a smaller version of the wall map seen at stations. The TfL Tube closures email I had yesterday states "Shoreditch station to permanently close from Saturday 10 June 2006. For further details click here." http://www.tfl.gov.uk/unlinked/tube-...10-June-06.pdf That statement is repeated on the map in the link. This is part of a leaflet which starts with "From Saturday 10 June Shoreditch station permanently closed". Nick |
Shoreditch RIP
Last train ex-Shoreditch is 20:33. I believe the following "staff"
train will carry invited big-wigs so the "genuine" passenger will be unable to travel on the actual "last" departure. Or does the last "public" working count as the official "last" anyway? |
Shoreditch RIP
"Chris Read" wrote in message ... Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Out of interest, did they ever consider running the ELL services into Liverpool Street for all the mainline connections and the direct link to the City for all the workers? Or was there too much mainline traffic to allow this? Nick |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, dwb wrote:
Considering that the ELL will go from nowhere to nowhere it seems alot of money to spend. It's not just about the present, it's about the future too. It would be nice if areas outside London could get lines built for the present, nevermind the future. -- Chris Johns |
Shoreditch RIP
Nick Pedley wrote:
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Out of interest, did they ever consider running the ELL services into Liverpool Street for all the mainline connections and the direct link to the City for all the workers? Or was there too much mainline traffic to allow this? Well that's what the line originally did but I guess it proved too messy to justify given the traffic involved. Putting it back now would take at least one much needed platform at Liverpool Street and create more pressure on one of the most congested sections of track in London. If a Liverpool Street to New Crosses root is needed, restoring through services on the connection at St. Mary's would do the trick better, if the District and H&C could handle it. |
Shoreditch RIP
dwb wrote: Bearing in mind that that I got on a train at Canada Water at 9am the train was probabley no more than 10-15% full at any point, I hope that the billions of taxpayer money being spent on this line is being well spent. Considering that the ELL will go from nowhere to nowhere it seems alot of money to spend. It's not just about the present, it's about the future too. Take a look at the figures for the Jubilee line, and what they are now, along with the areas in which it runs to see what could happen. How can you compare the ELL and the Jubilee? Given the number of jobs being created in Docklands the Jubilee was essential to make Docklands viable. The passenger numbers would always have increased. On the ELL line there are no areas ripe for mass development. Just makes me wonder if the money being invested in the ELL wouldn't have been better spent going towards Crossrail, given that the latter can't get the funding. Kevin |
Shoreditch RIP
Chris Johns wrote: On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, dwb wrote: Considering that the ELL will go from nowhere to nowhere it seems alot of money to spend. It's not just about the present, it's about the future too. It would be nice if areas outside London could get lines built for the present, nevermind the future. -- Chris Johns Given the overcrowding that has come to light in the last couple of days on Thameslink and lines out of Kings Cross mayber some of the money should have gone there. I bet the people of West Croydon can't wait to get that direct link to Dalston Junc. Kevin |
Shoreditch RIP
Kevin wrote:
Given the overcrowding that has come to light in the last couple of days on Thameslink and lines out of Kings Cross mayber some of the money should have gone there. I bet the people of West Croydon can't wait to get that direct link to Dalston Junc. I bet the people of Cricklewood couldn't wait to get that direct link to Tooting, either. It's a bit of a facetious comparison, I know, since Thameslink also created new city-centre journeys, but not entirely so. One with more direct relevance: have you been on the NLL in rush hour recently? It's as crowded as the GN or Thameslink, despite the fact that everyone assumed it'd be completely useless when BR created it so they could close Broad Street and sell up to developers. It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Shoreditch RIP
John B wrote:
It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. It's also good to see the development and use of effective orbital journey opportunities rather than everything being geared up towards the city centre. That can't be a bad thing, and other smaller cities could also do with similar provision (albeit probably using buses). Neil |
Shoreditch RIP
In message .com, at
07:01:53 on Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Kevin remarked: Given the overcrowding that has come to light in the last couple of days on Thameslink and lines out of Kings Cross mayber some of the money should have gone there. Do you mean FCC's excuses for putting up the effective ticket prices? It's been clear for years that those services need upgrading, and the plan to fix it is well developed: Thameslink 2K. But it's got stuck because of planning issues. -- Roland Perry |
Shoreditch RIP
On 7 Jun 2006 07:29:06 -0700, John B wrote:
It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. Indeed. I think it was a mistake not to connect the northern end to anything, though, as that greatly reduces the through journey opportunities. (I know it's planned for Phase 2, but that won't be completed until years later - if it even happens at all.) |
Shoreditch RIP
In message .com, Neil
Williams writes John B wrote: It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. It's also good to see the development and use of effective orbital journey opportunities rather than everything being geared up towards the city centre. That can't be a bad thing, and other smaller cities could also do with similar provision (albeit probably using buses). Indeed as Birmingham's legendary Outer Circle 11 and Inner Circle 8 routes have proved for 75-80 years. There aren't low-frequency occasional routes a la those in - say - Norwich but high-frequency high-capacity routes with frequencies in excess of radial routes in may places and which have over the decades created travel patterns all their own. The ELLX looks distinctly odd on paper. It will probably surprise us all for the better, though. -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Shoreditch RIP
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... In message .com, Neil Williams writes John B wrote: It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. It's also good to see the development and use of effective orbital journey opportunities rather than everything being geared up towards the city centre. That can't be a bad thing, and other smaller cities could also do with similar provision (albeit probably using buses). The ELLX looks distinctly odd on paper. It will probably surprise us all for the better, though. TfL's long terem aim seems to be to create a not-quite-circular service, Clapham Junction - Clapham Junction via the SLL, ELL, NLL and WLL. Peter |
Shoreditch RIP
Kevin wrote:
dwb wrote: Bearing in mind that that I got on a train at Canada Water at 9am the train was probabley no more than 10-15% full at any point, I hope that the billions of taxpayer money being spent on this line is being well spent. Considering that the ELL will go from nowhere to nowhere it seems alot of money to spend. It's not just about the present, it's about the future too. Take a look at the figures for the Jubilee line, and what they are now, along with the areas in which it runs to see what could happen. How can you compare the ELL and the Jubilee? Given the number of jobs being created in Docklands the Jubilee was essential to make Docklands viable. The passenger numbers would always have increased. On the ELL line there are no areas ripe for mass development. Just makes me wonder if the money being invested in the ELL wouldn't have been better spent going towards Crossrail, given that the latter can't get the funding. That suffers the misconception that cancelling project X means the money being spent on it could go to project Y instead. A lot of funding is very project-specific - for example, if that were not true, the DfT would have a list of schemes ranked by benefit-cost ratios, and would fund them down the list from the top BCR until they ran out of money. Although the list(s) exist, money is definitely not spent in that way - sometimes for logical reasons, sometimes not. The money being spent on the ELLX is from TfL's pot whilst the money for Crossrail will largely need to come from the Treasury pot. "Saving" £1.5bn or so on the ELLX wouldn't mean that Crossrail would go ahead - there would still be a big funding gap to overcome. Then you might end up with no Crossrail and no ELLX. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Shoreditch RIP
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: If a Liverpool Street to New Crosses root is needed, restoring through services on the connection at St. Mary's would do the trick better, if the District and H&C could handle it. They can't. There is literally no capacity for additional movements across the Aldgate triangle, which means that any new services via the St. Mary's Curve would have to be diverted away from the District main line, increasing overcrowding. Likewise, Aldgate East would be strained with all of the new interchanging traffic (St. Mary's station is long gone and will not come back, no matter what). A far better option is to rebuild Whitechapel DR to increase and rationalize track capacity, and to additionally reconstruct the station to provide more and step-free access between the two routes. |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Nick Pedley wrote: Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34 Out of interest, did they ever consider running the ELL services into Liverpool Street for all the mainline connections and the direct link to the City for all the workers? Or was there too much mainline traffic to allow this? Well that's what the line originally did but I guess it proved too messy to justify given the traffic involved. Putting it back now would take at least one much needed platform at Liverpool Street and create more pressure on one of the most congested sections of track in London. I believe it's not a matter of platform so much as track capacity - remember you've got the whole of the Great Eastern and West Anglia lines, with long-distance and rather busy suburban services on both, on four tracks. tom -- It's amazing how often conversations with you have the imaginary sound of human bones being crushed to rubble in the background. -- itchyfidget, to snowking |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:08:05 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message .com, at 07:01:53 on Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Kevin remarked: Given the overcrowding that has come to light in the last couple of days on Thameslink and lines out of Kings Cross mayber some of the money should have gone there. Do you mean FCC's excuses for putting up the effective ticket prices? It's been clear for years that those services need upgrading, and the plan to fix it is well developed: Thameslink 2K. But it's got stuck because of planning issues. And isn't it an interesting step by FCC as the potential franchisee for the new Thameslink 3,000,000 (sic) routes to put those restrictions in place. I wonder what that does to the revenue and usage numbers in the business case? Will the DfT demand yet another reappraisal of the scheme? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:49:52 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote: In message .com, Neil Williams writes John B wrote: It's clear that a (half) decent service creating significant through journey opportunities creates its own demand - there is no reason to assume the ELL will be any different from the NLL or the (also rammed) WLL in this respect. Exactly. If the routes are well run and frequent then people will use them - even the Barking - Gospel Oak line carries decent loads at times you would not expect and it doesn't have the most attractive of service specifications. It's also good to see the development and use of effective orbital journey opportunities rather than everything being geared up towards the city centre. That can't be a bad thing, and other smaller cities could also do with similar provision (albeit probably using buses). Indeed as Birmingham's legendary Outer Circle 11 and Inner Circle 8 routes have proved for 75-80 years. There aren't low-frequency occasional routes a la those in - say - Norwich but high-frequency high-capacity routes with frequencies in excess of radial routes in may places and which have over the decades created travel patterns all their own. I entirely agree - the 253 / 254 in London make no apparent sense in terms of end to end destinations but they carry huge volumes of people. The ELLX looks distinctly odd on paper. It will probably surprise us all for the better, though. The ELLX may look odd on its own. The real issue is the service pattern to be provided over the whole set of TfL inherited routes. Thankfully there is already some innovative thinking going on which provides a range of through journeys not available at present. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Shoreditch RIP
Looming in the distance at Shoreditch on the ex-BR side is a sort of
signal box type cabin high up with a concrete structure beside it. I was told this is the remains of a wagon hoist? Anyone know more about it? |
Shoreditch RIP
Chris Read wrote: The closure also brings to an end the most unusual service pattern on the Underground: M-F peaks and Sunday until mid-afternoon only. Will the replacement buses follow a similar pattern of operation? -- gordon |
Shoreditch RIP
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Shoreditch RIP
asdf writes:
I wonder how popular they'll be, and what the ticketing arrangements will be. "Please ensure that you have a valid London Underground ticket or Oyster pay as you go before you board. Tickets are not sold on the bus." |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Dave Arquati wrote:
That suffers the misconception that cancelling project X means the money being spent on it could go to project Y instead. A lot of funding is very project-specific - for example, if that were not true, the DfT would have a list of schemes ranked by benefit-cost ratios, and would fund them down the list from the top BCR until they ran out of money. Even worse is the philosophy that if the current budget isn't spent out, then the department or division in question is deemed to have over-budgeted, so their next budget can have an equal amount deducted from it too. So, towards the end of the budgeting period, departments/divisions are inclined to throw money at anything they're allowed to fund, irrespective of need, to make sure the budget allocation will be spent out by the end of the period. The fact that something else (that they're not authorised to fund) is justifiably crying out for resources, has no place in that logic, unfortunately. |
Shoreditch RIP
wrote in message oups.com... Looming in the distance at Shoreditch on the ex-BR side is a sort of signal box type cabin high up with a concrete structure beside it. I was told this is the remains of a wagon hoist? Anyone know more about it? It was a signal box. The entire viaduct was built for the Bishopsgate terminus before Liverpool Street took over that role. Bishopsgate then became a major goods station. http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...on/index.shtml Nick Pedley |
Shoreditch RIP
Mark Morton wrote in news:4en72hF1foaaoU1
@individual.net: Tristán White wrote: I hope they've made the right decision. Personally, I'm not convinced. Why do you think that? Brick Lane is fast becoming one of London's major thoroughfares for late night bars and clubs, not to mention the restaurants. But it's not the safest of areas late at night (in case you're wondering, a good mate of mine was beaten up there by a gang in an unprovoked attack not long ago). It never has been the safest of areas right from Jack the Ripper days! :-)) Having an underground station nearby means that it's easy to get in and out without having to make your way through backstreets to the new alternative station on Shoreditch High Street. Which is not ready yet as an alternative (if it goes to schedule, we're looking at June 2010 - four years to go!) Therefore, I think they should have extended the current hours of the station, rather than dispense of a very quaint station. Another thing: Has anyone studied the impact that 4 year period will have on Brick Lane market? But my main reason is much more 'romantic'. It's always sad to see the death of a station, especially one which has survived two world wars in one of the country's most heavily blitzed areas. And a Grade II listed one at that (I am sure palms will be greased and it will be turned into yet another bunch of offices or something). Do we really want to lose even more history? Could they not have gone up to Hoxton from the current station? (surely Brick Lane needed it more than Shoreditch High Street, which is served excellently nearby by Liverpool Street station (which has trains going to Hackney area already). Come on! The old Bishopsgate station was made redundant in the 19th century when Liverpool Street expanded! I remember seeing PDFs and consultations and stuff on UTL when they were discussing the exact route north of Whitechapel, but I can't remember reading a completely convincing argument why they couldn't use the existing route that used to go to Liverpool Street pre-war (and which was a goods-only service until the 60s). If they could have provided an interchange from the ELL-Extension at Bishopsgate/SHS to the Central Line, I would agree that there is sense in moving the station to Bishopsgate. But since there's not (another missed opportunity), what is the exact thinking? Or they could even have integrated Bishopsgate with Liverpool Street via an escalator link or something - done a Monument/Bank thing. But no. So was it really necessary to get rid of another piece of functional history? A quaint little station, with original wooden floors in the booking hall, and with the bizarrest opening hours on the whole network. A great shame. I'm not an expert, just a 'passenger' (I prefer calling myself a passenger than a customer, sorry). So my thoughts are largely governed by personal feelings and sorrow at areas losing a bit of history. I should add that. |
Shoreditch RIP
asdf wrote in
: On 7 Jun 2006 11:14:26 -0700, wrote: The closure also brings to an end the most unusual service pattern on the Underground: M-F peaks and Sunday until mid-afternoon only. Will the replacement buses follow a similar pattern of operation? Yes. Shuttle buses will run every 10 minutes between Shoreditch and Whitechapel, during the same hours as the current Shoreditch ELL service. I wonder how popular they'll be, and what the ticketing arrangements will be. Monday night I was coming from town on the H&C and was going to the Vibe Bar on Brick Lane. I decided to get off at Liverpool Street and walk, rather than go all the way to Whitechapel which would actually not leave me *that* close to the original station anyway. I could have walked from Aldgate East I guess, but there's not much in it. |
Shoreditch RIP
7
It's not just about the present, it's about the future too. It would be nice if areas outside London could get lines built for the present, nevermind the future. -- Chris Johns Amen! Mark |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:38:25 -0500, Tristán White wrote:
Therefore, I think they should have extended the current hours of the station, rather than dispense of a very quaint station. Another thing: Has anyone studied the impact that 4 year period will have on Brick Lane market? But my main reason is much more 'romantic'. It's always sad to see the death of a station, especially one which has survived two world wars in one of the country's most heavily blitzed areas. And a Grade II listed one at that (I am sure palms will be greased and it will be turned into yet another bunch of offices or something). It will no doubt disappoint you to hear the following. I don't know about the station itself, but according to TfL's ELLX video[1], the Shoreditch "branch" from the extended ELL, which lies in cutting, will be filled in. (Presumably this is so they can build offices or something on it.) This will all but preclude any future use of the station, or the connection to the GEML. [1] http://ellp.tfl.gov.uk/UserFiles/Fil...don%20Line.zip |
Shoreditch RIP
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Tristán White wrote: Brick Lane is fast becoming one of London's major thoroughfares for late night bars and clubs, not to mention the restaurants. But it's not the safest of areas late at night (in case you're wondering, a good mate of mine was beaten up there by a gang in an unprovoked attack not long ago). It never has been the safest of areas right from Jack the Ripper days! :-)) Having an underground station nearby means that it's easy to get in and out without having to make your way through backstreets to the new alternative station on Shoreditch High Street. Which is not ready yet as an alternative (if it goes to schedule, we're looking at June 2010 - four years to go!) The underground station isn't on Brick Lane itself but down a side street - not the most safe either. And it's all very well looking at it as "an underground station" but in terms of service destination Shoreditch doesn't really offer much. Even when it's been open, I've found it better to access Brick Lane by staying/getting off earlier (as appropriate) on the District/Hammer at Aldgate East (or even getting the Circle/Met to Aldgate) rather than changing at Whitechapel. Plus Aldgate East is so close to the start of Brick Lane it's actually a more pleasant walk (and more logical for a walk along the entire lane). I suppose that for those living on the route of the East London Line it may be a better access point but there isn't really the traffic to support it. I'd also like to add that there is now a lot more employment around Shoreditch High Street which didn't exist a decade or so ago, and so the new station is serving this employment and hopefully generating more. This area is known as the "City fringe" and one of the reasons for the ELLX is to encourage further regeneration in this area. There are similar hopes for Whitechapel - if Crossrail arrives too, Whitechapel will become an extremely well-connected area and it is hoped that this will lead to extensive regeneration in one of London's poorest areas. (snip) If they could have provided an interchange from the ELL-Extension at Bishopsgate/SHS to the Central Line, I would agree that there is sense in moving the station to Bishopsgate. But since there's not (another missed opportunity), what is the exact thinking? Or they could even have integrated Bishopsgate with Liverpool Street via an escalator link or something - done a Monument/Bank thing. Is any provision at all being made for a later interchange with the Central? Currently the Central simply can't cope with another station between Stratford and Tottenham Court Road (at least) - it adds to journey times on one of the most congested sections of the network. Maybe when Crossrail is running the Central congestion will have eased to make this viable, so why not stick to the route and leave that possibility open? Obviously a Central line interchange was considered at an early stage, but it was dropped for the reasons stated - the journey time increase for such a large number of passengers was not worth it. However, not much provision is really needed - Shoreditch High St will be right on top of the Central line, so "all" that's needed are Central line platforms. Unfortunately, that's the expensive part, and could only be justified if high levels of traffic were anticipated. Crossrail may relieve Central line congestion, but it will also deliver passengers to the interchange at Whitechapel instead, probably making a Central line interchange even less likely. I think a subsurface link between Shoreditch High St and Liverpool St would be so long as to be impractical - Bank/Monument lends itself to this because of the way the platforms are arranged beneath the surface, with the Northern line between the Central and the District. SHS-LS would probably be about twice as long as Bank W&C - Monument. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Shoreditch RIP
Kev wrote:
Considering that the ELL will go from nowhere to nowhere it seems alot of money to spend. Hey - i live in nowhere (Dalston), We've been waiting for this line for far too long. E. |
Shoreditch RIP
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:59:01 UTC, "Kevin" wrote:
: Just : makes me wonder if the money being invested in the ELL wouldn't have : been better spent going towards Crossrail, given that the latter can't : get the funding. It can't get the funding, though, because it's a completely crap idea and would, if it were ever built, be the worst waste of infrastructure money in living memory. At least the Chunnel might be useful, one day. Ian |
Shoreditch RIP
Ian Johnston wrote:
: Just : makes me wonder if the money being invested in the ELL wouldn't have : been better spent going towards Crossrail, given that the latter can't : get the funding. It can't get the funding, though, because it's a completely crap idea and would, if it were ever built, be the worst waste of infrastructure money in living memory. At least the Chunnel might be useful, one day. For that remark, you are sentenced to an eternity of travelling between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Court Road on the Central Line every morning peak hour. Seriously, nobody's suggesting (except, apparently, you) that Crossrail won't immediately attract massive ridership. The question is whether the benefits (pegged by several studies at somewhere between £10bn and £50bn) exceed the costs (somewhere between £10bn and £20bn). -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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