Peter Masson wrote:
"asdf" wrote

AFAIK, the Widened Lines to Moorgate were unelectrified until the time
of the BedPan electrification, whereupon OHLE was put up. They've
never had 3rd or 4th rail (unlike the adjacent LU tracks).

AIUI the eastbound Widened Line was electrified (4th rail system) between
1926 and 1935, when Met trains terminating at Moorgate used the Widened
Lines from a crossover at Kings Cross to the terminal platforms at Moorgate.
In the reverse direction the Circle line track was used. This reduced
conflicts at Moorgate. This arrangement was abolished in 1935 when the Kings
Cross (Circle Line) was relocated from its original position adjacent to the
current Thameslink station to its current position.

Peter

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge. Meanwhile
there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the walk saved to
City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from Aldgate?

Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
"asdf" wrote
AFAIK, the Widened Lines to Moorgate were unelectrified until the time
of the BedPan electrification, whereupon OHLE was put up. They've
never had 3rd or 4th rail (unlike the adjacent LU tracks).
AIUI the eastbound Widened Line was electrified (4th rail system) between
1926 and 1935, when Met trains terminating at Moorgate used the Widened
Lines from a crossover at Kings Cross to the terminal platforms at Moorgate.
In the reverse direction the Circle line track was used. This reduced
conflicts at Moorgate. This arrangement was abolished in 1935 when the Kings
Cross (Circle Line) was relocated from its original position adjacent to the
current Thameslink station to its current position.

Peter

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge. Meanwhile
there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the walk saved to
City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from Aldgate?

Terminating Mets at Moorgate would reduce the service to Liverpool Street.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge. Meanwhile
there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the walk saved to
City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from Aldgate?

Terminating Mets at Moorgate would reduce the service to Liverpool Street.

--

How far is the Walk from Liverpool Street to Moorgate? I do realize
the interchange at Liverpool Street could hardly be more convenient.

Is there a case for restoring the terminating Met/Circle platform at
Liverpool Street?

Adrian.

Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge.
Meanwhile there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the
walk saved to City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from
Aldgate?

There are significant numbers of offices both in the immediate vicinity of
Aldgate (and Fenchurch Street) and in the St. Katherine Docks area. As one
who used to commute to the area on a daily basis from Metroland I can assure
you that the withdrawal of Met services would be poorly received. In the
late eighties the off-peak service was cut back to Baker Street but was
restored for Amersham and Uxbridge services in the early 90s.

Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:
It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge. Meanwhile
there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the walk saved to
City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from Aldgate?
Terminating Mets at Moorgate would reduce the service to Liverpool Street.

How far is the Walk from Liverpool Street to Moorgate? I do realize
the interchange at Liverpool Street could hardly be more convenient.

I was thinking more of the distribution of interchange traffic to/from
Liverpool Street, rather than just people arriving from the west for
City offices.

Is there a case for restoring the terminating Met/Circle platform at
Liverpool Street?

Probably too expensive... but then they might have to think about it if
running the Met through to Whitechapel/Barking proves unreliable!


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge.
Meanwhile there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the
walk saved to City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from
Aldgate?

There are significant numbers of offices both in the immediate
vicinity of Aldgate (and Fenchurch Street) and in the St. Katherine
Docks area. As one who used to commute to the area on a daily basis
from Metroland I can assure you that the withdrawal of Met services
would be poorly received. In the late eighties the off-peak service
was cut back to Baker Street but was restored for Amersham and
Uxbridge services in the early 90s.

Isn't another reason simply the fact that the Aldgate terminating
platforms are between the Circle platforms so involve fewer conflicting
movements that at Moorgate or, when the bay existed there, at Liverpool
St?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:

Terminating Mets at Moorgate would reduce the service to Liverpool
Street.

How far is the Walk from Liverpool Street to Moorgate?

It's not the furthest distance one could ever walk, but it's not the easiest
to follow.

Also the Hammersmith & City and Circle lines have very erratic services at
Liverpool Street - without the Met the trains will overcrowd.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 00:45 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Isn't another reason simply the fact that the Aldgate terminating
platforms are between the Circle platforms so involve fewer conflicting
movements that at Moorgate or, when the bay existed there, at Liverpool
St?

That's quite correct. Terminating the Met at Moorgate (or Liverpool
Street) would cause more than twice as many conflicting moves as
running it through to Aldgate.

In message .com of
Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:00:20 in uk.transport.london, "Adrian Auer-Hudson,
MIMIS" writes

[snip]

It puzzles me that LU insists on running Met Line trains thru to
Aldgate. The Junction there must be an operating challenge. Meanwhile
there is ample unused capacity at Moorgate. Surely the walk saved to
City employment centers cannot be so much shorter from Aldgate?


I just tried the trip between Moorgate and Aldgate in
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en
and found it takes 4 minutes by LU and 18 walking.
I regularly make that walk. I would be quite uncomfortable to share some
parts of the footpaths with many extra pedestrians. In fact, people
transfer to Circle trains at Barbican when trains teverse at Moorgate.

Reversing at Moorgate means eastbound trains cross the westbound line to
a single reversing platform.
At Aldgate, there are two reversing platforms between the east and west
bound lines.
Reversing at Moorgate is uncommon. I assume it only happens when there
is unusual congestion around Aldgate.

If Crossrail ever happens, things will be more interesting as Moorgate
and Liverpool Street will be one station - the trains will be long.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:48:30 +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

If Crossrail ever happens, things will be more interesting as Moorgate
and Liverpool Street will be one station - the trains will be long.

There's currently a similar sort of situation at Waterloo. Waterloo
(Jubilee) is an interchange station for Waterloo (NR), which is an
interchange station for Waterloo East (NR), which is an interchange
station for Southwark (Jubilee). The London Connections map shows them
all interconnected.