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St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
In message , at 10:31:02 on
Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Richard M Willis remarked: I would call our currency pounds xor pence. So: £1 coin is a "One pounds coin" and £10.50 is either "Ten point five pounds", or "One thousand and 50 pence" I don't think any of this is in general usage. -- Roland Perry |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:31:02 +0100, "Richard M Willis"
wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 09:16:52 on Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Richard M Willis remarked: What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Linguistically should be "One Penny coins", and whatever the merits of an argument that the currency is called Pounds and Pence (of which the coin has a value of Zero pounds and one pence), the coin *does* have "One Penny" written on it. Hmm. I measure things in metres, centimetres and millimetres. I don't call this "m AND cm AND mm". Consequently, I would call our currency pounds xor pence. "penny" does not exist as far as I am concerned. Simply wrong. It's the singular form of pence in the same way that pound is the singular form of pounds. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message £1 coin is a "One pounds coin" and £10.50 is either "Ten point five pounds", or "One thousand and 50 pence" Yes. Those are all valid. I don't think any of this is in general usage. Probably correct. Richard [in SG19] -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"James Farrar" wrote in message Simply wrong. It's the singular form of pence in the same way that pound is the singular form of pounds. "penny" is the singular form of "pence", so that "pence" is inherently plural ?! I didn't know that. In fact, I didn't know that units of measurement *had* plurals ! zero pence, one pence, two pence, .. in the same way as zero centimetre, one centimetre, two centimetre. Richard [in SG19] -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
In message , thoss
writes Those apostrophes are fine. But I also have, dating from an earlier age, Philips' Modern School Atlas, published by George Philip & Son Ltd. I wonder what that one is doing there. George Philip & Son used the forms Philip's and Philips' totally interchangeably for a very long time. I even have a copy of their 1862 London map which is entitled "Philip's New Plan of London" on the map itself, but "Philips' Guide to London" on its cover. There never has been much consistency in the use of the possessive apostrophe in the case of words ending in s. -- Paul Terry |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Richard M Willis wrote:
"James Farrar" wrote in message Simply wrong. It's the singular form of pence in the same way that pound is the singular form of pounds. "penny" is the singular form of "pence", so that "pence" is inherently plural ?! I didn't know that. Isn't learning wonderful. We need the word penny (which, just to extend your education, also has the plural "pennies") so that we can communicate properly. Thus, we can say: I have one penny. - this is how much money I have. I have a one penny coin. - this is the form it is in. And I have two pence - this is how much money I have I have two pennies/I have two one penny coins/I have a two pence coin. - to indicate the form it is in. zero centimetre, one centimetre, two centimetre. Arguable. Perhaps correct in technical documents, but to TMOTCO, it's zero centimetres, one centimetre, two centimetres. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683828.html (158 749 at Portsmouth Harbour, 30 Dec 1998) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:31:02 on Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Richard M Willis remarked: I would call our currency pounds xor pence. So: £1 coin is a "One pounds coin" and £10.50 is either "Ten point five pounds", or "One thousand and 50 pence" I don't think any of this is in general usage. Or "Ten guineas". (But that's not in general usage either). -- Thoss |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:18:56 +0100, "Richard M Willis"
wrote: "James Farrar" wrote in message Simply wrong. It's the singular form of pence in the same way that pound is the singular form of pounds. "penny" is the singular form of "pence", so that "pence" is inherently plural ?! I didn't know that. You learn something every day. In fact, I didn't know that units of measurement *had* plurals ! zero pence, one pence, two pence, .. in the same way as zero centimetre, one centimetre, two centimetre. London and Paris are 211 mile apart, are they? -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:05:39 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote: Richard M Willis wrote: zero centimetre, one centimetre, two centimetre. Arguable. Perhaps correct in technical documents, but to TMOTCO, it's zero centimetres, one centimetre, two centimetres. Technical documents would always abbreviate. Describing a length as "zero centimetres" is redundant, incidentally; if the length is zero it's zero whatever the unit and thus is probably best phrased as "zero length", depending on context. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
James Farrar ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying : Describing a length as "zero centimetres" is redundant, incidentally; if the length is zero it's zero whatever the unit and thus is probably best phrased as "zero length", depending on context. I think it's fairly safe to say that "zero miles" may very well cover a wider range of zero than "zero microns". |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On 03 Jul 2006 21:46:45 GMT, Adrian wrote:
James Farrar ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Describing a length as "zero centimetres" is redundant, incidentally; if the length is zero it's zero whatever the unit and thus is probably best phrased as "zero length", depending on context. I think it's fairly safe to say that "zero miles" may very well cover a wider range of zero than "zero microns". That rather depends on context. I'd say there's a difference between "0 cm" and "0 nm" but not between "zero centimetres" and "zero nanometres". Maybe I'm out of touch with current scientific noation, though. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:27:40 -0500, "Stephen Sprunk"
wrote: In general, all punctuation and diacritical marks are dropped to make signs and addresses as easy to read/write as possible. Therefore "St. John's" becomes "St Johns" (notice the two changes). At least where English is the common language; I assume in languages where accents and such are used more frequently, signmakers are more tolerant of them :) Sorry - I've had technical problems, so am following this up very late, but have also observed a lot of punctuation on signs. Removing punctuation certainly isn't the policy on London Underground signage. In the new Western ticket hall at King's Cross the signs refer consistently to 'King's Cross' and 'St. Pancras' even though, as discussed elsewhere in the thread, it would be more usual to write 'St Pancras' without a full-stop in British English at least. Incidentally 'St Pancras' is both the form used on most of the main line station signage and the form that I would normally use in writing. As it happens, since this thread started, I drove past a well-known posh restaurant just outside Oxford, and noted signs to it as 'Le Manoir au Quat' saisons' *with* the apostrophe on after 'quat'. These were standard British road signs with the brown background used for tourist attractions and the like, and again the convention appears to be to include punctuation on these signs Martin |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:32:51 GMT, Phil Clark
wrote: Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On 30 Jun 2006 10:20:50 -0700 you wrote:
And, from the London Borough of Haringey: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/env...umb ering.htm In particular "No use of punctuation except for the abreviation of St, Saint." I find this ironic because St for Saint does not need a period because it contains the final letter. These would appear to be for new addresses only. There are plenty of long-established street names in the borough which aren't compliant with these standards (such as 'The Chine' which breaks the stern admonition not to start street names with 'The'). Martin |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
In general, all punctuation and diacritical marks are dropped to make signs and addresses as easy to read/write as possible. Therefore "St. John's" becomes "St Johns" (notice the two changes). At least where English is the common language; I assume in languages where accents and such are used more frequently, signmakers are more tolerant of them :) Melbourne has a laneway named after Australian rock band AC/DC (where the slash is generally written as a lightning bolt). But slashes -- let alone lightning bolts -- aren't permitted in Melbourne City Council street names, so it's "ACDC Lane". Pic of the sign he http://www.danielbowen.com/2004/10/22/ac-dc/ Regards, Daniel |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:02:18 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote: Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. As well as "salame" is the singular of "salami" ... ... as native italian improper usage of the plural form sounds to me at least funny when not irritating ... I tend to disagree. What is plural in one language can very well become singular in another language. Whether it was plural in the original lanuage does not matter very much. I tend to disagree with the latter statement as a matter of principle, although it might be correct as an observation of actual usage. I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Phil Clark wrote:
one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13309739.html (43 090 at London Kings Cross, 29 Nov 1980) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:42:17 GMT, Phil Clark
wrote: On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:02:18 +0200, Giovanni Drogo wrote: Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. As well as "salame" is the singular of "salami" ... ... as native italian improper usage of the plural form sounds to me at least funny when not irritating ... I tend to disagree. What is plural in one language can very well become singular in another language. Whether it was plural in the original lanuage does not matter very much. I tend to disagree with the latter statement as a matter of principle, although it might be correct as an observation of actual usage. I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. "One pair of trousers" "two pairs of trousers". So one panini, two panini. Not really the same thing. Sheep, maybe. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:08:25 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote: Phil Clark wrote: one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? Adjectival form. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On 8/7/06 13:42, "Phil Clark" wrote:
I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. I went to the shop today and bought a trousers? :-) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:56:20 +0100, Stimpy
wrote: On 8/7/06 13:42, "Phil Clark" wrote: I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. I went to the shop today and bought a trousers? :-) OK then, gallows. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:08:25 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: Phil Clark wrote: one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? Adjectival form. Pardon? If you are saying that trouser is an adjective, then I'm beginning to wonder what it means, and if it is part of the sequence: trous, trouser, trousest. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10589947.html (37 092 at London Liverpool Street, 13 Apr 1980) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:41:52 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote: James Farrar wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:08:25 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: Phil Clark wrote: one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? Adjectival form. Pardon? If you are saying that trouser is an adjective, then I'm beginning to wonder what it means, and if it is part of the sequence: trous, trouser, trousest. Sure it's an adjective. It modifies the word "press", telling you what kind of a press it is. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Phil Clark wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:56:20 +0100, Stimpy wrote: On 8/7/06 13:42, "Phil Clark" wrote: I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. I went to the shop today and bought a trousers? :-) OK then, gallows. You bought gallows in a shop?? Is that legal? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:41:52 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: James Farrar wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:08:25 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: Phil Clark wrote: one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? Adjectival form. Pardon? If you are saying that trouser is an adjective, then I'm beginning to wonder what it means, and if it is part of the sequence: trous, trouser, trousest. Sure it's an adjective. It modifies the word "press", telling you what kind of a press it is. Such an idea gives me an ache. The adjective "head" tells you what kind of an ache. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683667.html (50001 (Class 114) at Sheffield Midland, Dec 1979) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:24:23 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Phil Clark wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:56:20 +0100, Stimpy wrote: On 8/7/06 13:42, "Phil Clark" wrote: I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. I went to the shop today and bought a trousers? :-) OK then, gallows. You bought gallows in a shop?? Is that legal? Entirely. Using it is a bit dodgy, though. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:24:23 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Phil Clark wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:56:20 +0100, Stimpy wrote: On 8/7/06 13:42, "Phil Clark" wrote: I tend to think that if panini is going to be used as a singular, it should be one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. So one panini, two panini. I went to the shop today and bought a trousers? :-) OK then, gallows. You bought gallows in a shop?? Is that legal? ObPedant: a gallows.... ^^ |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 22:18:29 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote: James Farrar wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:41:52 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: James Farrar wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:08:25 GMT, Chris Tolley wrote: Phil Clark wrote: one of those words that is always plural, like trousers. Never stayed in a hotel room with a trouser press? Adjectival form. Pardon? If you are saying that trouser is an adjective, then I'm beginning to wonder what it means, and if it is part of the sequence: trous, trouser, trousest. Sure it's an adjective. It modifies the word "press", telling you what kind of a press it is. Such an idea gives me an ache. The adjective "head" tells you what kind of an ache. They have headaches; not heads ache. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:05:39 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote: Richard M Willis wrote: "James Farrar" wrote in message Simply wrong. It's the singular form of pence in the same way that pound is the singular form of pounds. "penny" is the singular form of "pence", so that "pence" is inherently plural ?! I didn't know that. Isn't learning wonderful. We need the word penny (which, just to extend your education, also has the plural "pennies") so that we can communicate properly. Thus, we can say: I have one penny. - this is how much money I have. I have a one penny coin. - this is the form it is in. And I have two pence - this is how much money I have I have two pennies/I have two one penny coins/I have a two pence coin. - to indicate the form it is in. zero centimetre, one centimetre, two centimetre. Arguable. Perhaps correct in technical documents, but to TMOTCO, it's zero centimetres, one centimetre, two centimetres. As this is probably posted for Those Down Under in New Zild as of a certain day 39 years ago... Monday the tenth of July... DC Day! When pence finally made cents (sorry). |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Dave Arquati wrote:
(snip) I can understand how a bush would *belong* to a Shepherd, but a bush composed of shepherds? You could just have a bush named after more than one shepherd. This would not require any apostrophe unless it were dedicated to shepherds. Or maybe even "bush" is a verb... dogs bark, sheep bleat, shepherds bush? A few years ago an Australian linguist discovered that "bush" is a preposition. So if your shepherds go bush, now you know where to find them! It should be pointed out that some linguists claimed he was wrong, and "bush" is an adverb. "Shepherds" does also happen to be a verb, but it's a bit difficult to combine the two, as shepherding is only permitted near the ball. If a footy player shepherds bush, he's likely to get pinged by an umpire! * depending on which maps you consult (A-Z or Bart's) and whether you prefer the LB Hammersmith & Fulham's usage (which rarely includes an apostrophe on anything Bush-related). Surely you don't expect him to understand apostrophes? -- Aidan Stanger http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk |
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