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Tube could close in future heatwaves
Adrian wrote:
I'll bet that if you went to the buffet car on an intercity and asked for a glass of tap water you'd get one for free. No, because they don't carry any in a drinkable form. I recall a notice being displayed quite prominently saying (mainly to parents with babies) that they couldn't supply tap water because it was not drinkable, as the buffet cars didn't have the correct infrastructure. Neil |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On 05 Jul 2006 07:19:57 GMT, Adrian wrote:
Ummm, lemme guess... No buffets on tube trains? Pullman cars Mayflower and Galatea ran on the Met between 1910 and 1939. Not quite tube trains in any sense. The Met is certainly a tube line. It's not a tube line, though it is a Tube line. ;-) |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
In article , Paul Terry
writes But in those days much of the rolling stock was better designed for a through-flow of air, with relatively large "hopper" windows and, in a number of cases, open (but gated) platforms at the ends of carriages. I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes - between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer and had air conditioning. -- congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Neil Williams wrote: Adrian wrote: I'll bet that if you went to the buffet car on an intercity and asked for a glass of tap water you'd get one for free. No, because they don't carry any in a drinkable form. I recall a notice being displayed quite prominently saying (mainly to parents with babies) that they couldn't supply tap water because it was not drinkable, as the buffet cars didn't have the correct infrastructure. Times have changed. North Country Continental, Gresley buffet car, headed for Harwich, December 1983: "Please could I have some hot water to make up my baby son's bottle?" "Certainly, Sir. That'll be 20p, please" "You're joking, right?" "No Sir, 20p please" And he gave me a receipt for it! -- Regards Mike |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
In article . com, Paul
Oter writes jonmorris wrote: Tap water does me fine anyway, so if they had tap water available at stations I'd simply use that. Can I nominate this for this newsgroups's "best idea of the day" award? Drinking fountains at main NR and tube stations, where travellers can have a drink or refil their water bottles. Just like at all BAA airports. Unfortunately most public places in London these days don't have drinking fountains. Instead they have concessions or vending machines where you can spend up to (and often more than) a quid for a drink of water. Only a few weeks ago in Regent's Park I refilled my water bottle from the big ornamental fountain near the Zoo. People around me were more concerned as they didn't know whether it was safe to drink or not. I'd already checked at the park map near the entrance, which shows where all the drinking fountains are located - and this was one of them. -- congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Paul Terry writes:
I also suspect that staff were able to be much more pragmatic in dealing quickly with breakdowns. These days, H&S procedures often seem to endanger health and safety by causing long delays. I think that the HSE need reminding that the H is for 'health' and as it comes before 'safety' in their title should be a primary concern. Yet (at least the perception is that) they seem to concentrate almost entirely on safety. |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On 05 Jul 2006 08:09:17 GMT, Adrian wrote:
Richard M Willis ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Ummm, lemme guess... No buffets on tube trains? Pullman cars Mayflower and Galatea ran on the Met between 1910 and 1939. Not quite tube trains in any sense. The Met is certainly a tube line. It is not. It is entirely surface (or subsurface in some places), but never tube. That line is run entirely by A stock, which is surface stock, and would not fit in tube tunnels. Even if you consider the Metropolitan to include the Circle,H+C,ELL, it still isn't tube. sigh Tube in the sense of "London Underground", rather than tube in the sense of the actual engineering behind the line itself. "Tube" in the sense of a buzz-word slavishly copied without bothering to recognise the correct meaning ? -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Charles Ellson ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying : The Met is certainly a tube line. It is not. It is entirely surface (or subsurface in some places), but never tube. That line is run entirely by A stock, which is surface stock, and would not fit in tube tunnels. Even if you consider the Metropolitan to include the Circle,H+C,ELL, it still isn't tube. sigh Tube in the sense of "London Underground", rather than tube in the sense of the actual engineering behind the line itself. "Tube" in the sense of a buzz-word slavishly copied without bothering to recognise the correct meaning ? Yes, that'll be it. Otherwise known as "in the sense that several million Londoners use it every day, rather than the sense that a handful of railway anoraks insist on it being used when they're feeling *really* pedantic and trying to score points..." |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On 05 Jul 2006 18:12:46 GMT, Adrian wrote:
Charles Ellson ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : The Met is certainly a tube line. It is not. It is entirely surface (or subsurface in some places), but never tube. That line is run entirely by A stock, which is surface stock, and would not fit in tube tunnels. Even if you consider the Metropolitan to include the Circle,H+C,ELL, it still isn't tube. sigh Tube in the sense of "London Underground", rather than tube in the sense of the actual engineering behind the line itself. "Tube" in the sense of a buzz-word slavishly copied without bothering to recognise the correct meaning ? Yes, that'll be it. Otherwise known as "in the sense that several million Londoners use it every day, rather than the sense that a handful of railway anoraks insist on it being used when they're feeling *really* pedantic and trying to score points..." So the proper usage by hundreds of staff (to whom the system actually "belongs") doesn't count ? Many Londoners also mis-name St.Stephen's Tower (and others slavishly follow) but that doesn't mean their usage is correct. -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Charles Ellson ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying : sigh Tube in the sense of "London Underground", rather than tube in the sense of the actual engineering behind the line itself. "Tube" in the sense of a buzz-word slavishly copied without bothering to recognise the correct meaning ? Yes, that'll be it. Otherwise known as "in the sense that several million Londoners use it every day, rather than the sense that a handful of railway anoraks insist on it being used when they're feeling *really* pedantic and trying to score points..." So the proper usage by hundreds of staff (to whom the system actually "belongs") doesn't count ? Many Londoners also mis-name St.Stephen's Tower (and others slavishly follow) but that doesn't mean their usage is correct. If you want to be really pedantic about it, the outer reaches of the Met are neither London nor Underground... |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
"Neil Williams" wrote in
ps.com: Or is it because mineral water is becoming a fashion statement? The opposite, surely? In the 80s Perrier and Evian in particular were very much associated with the whole yuppy "red braces" image, whereas now nobody thinks twice about buying a bottle of water if they're thirsty. Although given that the stuff can be anything up to twice as expensive as petrol, perhaps they *should* think twice! Depends on the individual. I dehydrate very easily, especially in this kind of weather, so if I'm carrying any sort of bag it'll likely have a bottle of diluted squash in it somewhere (or similar). I've done this for years. Not everyone's the same, though. I always carry a bottle of water with me (filled up from the tap of course -- Thames Water's finest will do me), but that's more the occasions when the Central Line decides to come to a juddering halt leaving me stranded underground in 35C heat for an hour or so. Which has only happened twice in the last couple of years ... Iain |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100 someone who may be congokid
wrote this:- I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes - between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. Some photographs of the old electric trains on Tyneside appear to show them moving with open sliding doors. I don't know if my eyes are deceiving me though. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
congokid wrote:
I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes - between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer and had air conditioning. Open is the default setting on the Thai railways, at least on non-aircon stock... Neil |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170... Otherwise known as "in the sense that several million Londoners use it every day, rather than the sense that a handful of railway anoraks insist on it being used when they're feeling *really* pedantic and trying to score points..." LOL! And several million tourists and visitors to London. Nice one! Ian |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
"Mike Roebuck" wrote in message
Times have changed. North Country Continental, Gresley buffet car, headed for Harwich, December 1983: "Please could I have some hot water to make up my baby son's bottle?" "Certainly, Sir. That'll be 20p, please" "You're joking, right?" "No Sir, 20p please" And he gave me a receipt for it! Don't understand. If "times have changed" since 23 years ago, what is the situation now ? 20p seems dirt cheap to me for heating a few 100ml of water. Richard [in SG19] -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Richard M Willis wrote: "Mike Roebuck" wrote in message Times have changed. North Country Continental, Gresley buffet car, headed for Harwich, December 1983: "Please could I have some hot water to make up my baby son's bottle?" "Certainly, Sir. That'll be 20p, please" "You're joking, right?" "No Sir, 20p please" And he gave me a receipt for it! Don't understand. If "times have changed" since 23 years ago, what is the situation now ? I was responding to Neil's comment that they won't supply tap water now to parents with babies (before he qualified the comment in a later post that hot water might be available in the form of a tea-less cup of tea). 20p seems dirt cheap to me for heating a few 100ml of water. I found it an absolute cheek and a rip-off at the time. I bet there wasn't a single railway company in Europe other than BR, at the time, who would have charged me for hot water for a baby's feed. Of course, the amount I have to pay for my home water supply now is a far bigger rip-off, and, again, another pecularly British thing. -- Regards Mike |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Bill Hayles wrote On 4 Jul 2006 02:20:51 -0700, "Paul Weaver" wrote: Of course, a 500ml bottle of water costs 50p in med countries, £2 in London. Totally off topic, I admit, but a 5 *litre* bottle of water costs 52 cents in any of the major Spanish supermarkets (including on the coast). Even a 2 litre bottle of Gaseosa (a light lemonade) costs 26 cents. Sainsburys etc. have own 'value' brand still and sparkling "Table Water" at 18p for 2 litres. (26 euro cents) All smaller bottles are still 40p or more. Special offer this week "lemonade" at 19p for 2 litres. Of course these may not be stocked in the central/ metro/ local small supermarkets. In these the cheapest per item "gissus a drink" seems to be milk at 33p (for 568ml). -- Mike D |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100, congokid wrote:
In article , Paul Terry writes I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes Nope, the passengers were too lazy to close them. Around that time the last of the non power door carrages were withdrawn as people kept managing to fall out of moving trains and their relations kept going to the media about those 'unsafe trains'. between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer and had air conditioning. Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are power doors though. If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock. |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
In article na.org.au,
Matthew Geier writes On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100, congokid wrote: In article , Paul Terry writes I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes Nope, the passengers were too lazy to close them. I didn't realise it was up to passengers to close them. I probably expected them to be controlled by the driver, like on the London underground. Around that time the last of the non power door carrages were withdrawn as people kept managing to fall out of moving trains and their relations kept going to the media about those 'unsafe trains'. between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer and had air conditioning. Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are power doors though. If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock. I think I was on about three trains in total, so not at all a representative sample. Thanks for the clarification. -- congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:38:32 +0100, congokid wrote:
In article na.org.au, Matthew Geier writes between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer and had air conditioning. Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are power doors though. If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock. One thing I have noticed, and I could be imaging things (or just getting older :-), is that as the proportion of trains with air-conditioning has been increasing, the Sydney city tunnels are getting hotter. Presumably with each train dumping several kw extra of waste heat into the tunnels it's raising the average temperature. It's probably no so much an issue with the Sub-Surface lines with their larger tunnels and frequent 'smoke vents', but I could see this being a serious issue with the deep tube trains - if you fit air conditioning to any new build rolling stock, just where is the AC system going to dump it's waste heat ?. The tubes are already too hot. A serious amount of civil engineering would be needed to improve air-flows through the tubes to carry the waste heat off. (And probably electrical works to increase the capacity of the traction power network to take the extra electrical load of the air conditioning plant on each train). The tube tunnels themselves need some sort of cooling system fitted before even thinking about the trains. I seem to recall somewhere that pumping chilled water through pipes buried in the platform has been tried at at least one LU station. |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:42:34 +1000 someone who may be Matthew Geier
wrote this:- It's probably no so much an issue with the Sub-Surface lines with their larger tunnels and frequent 'smoke vents', but I could see this being a serious issue with the deep tube trains - if you fit air conditioning to any new build rolling stock, just where is the AC system going to dump it's waste heat ?. The tubes are already too hot. A serious amount of civil engineering would be needed to improve air-flows through the tubes to carry the waste heat off. (And probably electrical works to increase the capacity of the traction power network to take the extra electrical load of the air conditioning plant on each train). One of the reasons that rubber tyres have not replaced steel ones, as the proponents of the Paris Metro confidently predicted, is that the rubber wheels give off a lot of heat, which has to be dealt with in some way including beefing up ventilation and air-conditioning. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
David Hansen wrote: Some photographs of the old electric trains on Tyneside appear to show them moving with open sliding doors. I don't know if my eyes are deceiving me though. Yes, they did have manual sliding doors. When I lived in the North East, one particular colleague (now retired) recalled how, in those days, he would relieve himself in an open doorway while the train was moving! (Apparently it was common practice on late-night trains!) |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Steve M wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: Neil Williams wrote: Edward Cowling London UK wrote: The stress of not being able to get home will far outweigh the stress of being a bit hot, so get Ken off his latest hobby horse and leave the Underground running. Indeed. I could go on about the new improved London Transport that Ken promised us would be bought with the congestion charge money, but I think he's spent it all on community policing and the damn Olympics. A lot of it's gone on the bus network, to pretty good effect. The trouble is it was a little too successful, in that it did redirect people onto public transport, which means his income dropped. That lead to the price rise and the "make it easier to pay" stuff to encourage a few more people to drive and up the income again! Talking of buses and heatwaves, I noticed on a 14 yesterday that a new air cooling unit had been installed above the stairs on the top deck - and very welcome it was too. Interesting... I've seen a few of the 85s have these too (probably the same fleet from Putney depot mind) and have wondered just how effective the system is. Did you try sitting in different places to test the effect? No... at the time I was far too hot for that, so I sat in the breeze directly behind the cooler! -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
asdf wrote:
On 05 Jul 2006 07:19:57 GMT, Adrian wrote: Ummm, lemme guess... No buffets on tube trains? Pullman cars Mayflower and Galatea ran on the Met between 1910 and 1939. Not quite tube trains in any sense. The Met is certainly a tube line. It's not a tube line, though it is a Tube line. ;-) I find that distinction very useful when I'm trying to avoid misinterpretation. LU also always capitalise "Tube" when they're talking about themselves. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
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Tube could close in future heatwaves
victormeldrewsyoungerbrother wrote:
jonmorris wrote: Of course, a 500ml bottle of water costs 50p in med countries, £2 in London. I thought the shops at Kings Cross were expensive, but I still only pay 95p for a bottle, or £1.20 for two bottles. Not cheap, but not a major rip off either. However, I don't care because whenever possible I simply refill a bottle with (cold) water from our office water machine, or before I leave in the morning! Sod expensive mineral water! Jonathan Doesn't anyone here ever go in a supermarket? A six pack of 500ml mineral waters costs about £2 (supermarket own brand). Buying in bulk reduces the price. Morrisons have an offer currently on, I think, Volvic in 5litre bottles for about the same price - not that I'm suggesting you take a 5l bottle to work, just refill a smaller one. Only fools BUY water! And plenty of firms bank on it - e.g. CocaCola and their scam....! |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
Davebt wrote:
victormeldrewsyoungerbrother wrote: jonmorris wrote: Of course, a 500ml bottle of water costs 50p in med countries, £2 in London. I thought the shops at Kings Cross were expensive, but I still only pay 95p for a bottle, or £1.20 for two bottles. Not cheap, but not a major rip off either. However, I don't care because whenever possible I simply refill a bottle with (cold) water from our office water machine, or before I leave in the morning! Sod expensive mineral water! Jonathan Doesn't anyone here ever go in a supermarket? A six pack of 500ml mineral waters costs about £2 (supermarket own brand). Buying in bulk reduces the price. Morrisons have an offer currently on, I think, Volvic in 5litre bottles for about the same price - not that I'm suggesting you take a 5l bottle to work, just refill a smaller one. Only fools BUY water! Next time the utility bill comes in the post you'll be reminded quite otherwise. |
Tube could close in future heatwaves
"Andrew" wrote in message k... Davebt wrote: victormeldrewsyoungerbrother wrote: jonmorris wrote: Of course, a 500ml bottle of water costs 50p in med countries, £2 in London. I thought the shops at Kings Cross were expensive, but I still only pay 95p for a bottle, or £1.20 for two bottles. Not cheap, but not a major rip off either. However, I don't care because whenever possible I simply refill a bottle with (cold) water from our office water machine, or before I leave in the morning! Sod expensive mineral water! Jonathan Doesn't anyone here ever go in a supermarket? A six pack of 500ml mineral waters costs about £2 (supermarket own brand). Buying in bulk reduces the price. Morrisons have an offer currently on, I think, Volvic in 5litre bottles for about the same price - not that I'm suggesting you take a 5l bottle to work, just refill a smaller one. Only fools BUY water! Next time the utility bill comes in the post you'll be reminded quite otherwise. There is a slight difference in the per litre price of bottled water against 'Chateau Robinet'. Rather than put a full bottle in the fridge, BTW, put a half-full one in the freezer overnight, then top up with tap water... Brian |
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