From Watford Observer online 15/07/06

Mixed bag for transport schemes

FUNDING for one major transport scheme in Watford was approved by the
Government last week, but another was found to still need more work.

About £13m will be spent on redeveloping Watford Junction Station
between 2009 and 2016, the Department for Transport (DfT) has said.
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

continued...

News that the link has not yet been approved has been met with dismay
by Watford Friends of the Earth. Representative Terry Figg, said:
"We're extremely disappointed by this. It's been around for about ten
years and it would bring several benefits to Watford." Lara Hejazi, a
representative of Hertfordshire County Council, which is leading the
link project, insisted that it remained a priority scheme.

.................................................. .................................................. ...............................
John Burke
WRUG

burkey wrote:
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

Dunno how current the news on the Croxley link is - I had an email from
TfL's listed contact last week in which he said that HCC were to
resubmit their funding package to the DfT by "the end of this month"
but he wasn't able to say any more. Not that I've heard anything from
HCC or their consultants to confirm/challenge this - they haven't
responded to my last two emails asking them for news on progress.
(Perhaps I should use the magic words "freedom of information" in
future? That might help...)

THC

burkey wrote:
From Watford Observer online 15/07/06

Mixed bag for transport schemes

FUNDING for one major transport scheme in Watford was approved by the
Government last week, but another was found to still need more work.

About £13m will be spent on redeveloping Watford Junction Station
between 2009 and 2016, the Department for Transport (DfT) has said.
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

continued...

News that the link has not yet been approved has been met with dismay
by Watford Friends of the Earth. Representative Terry Figg, said:
"We're extremely disappointed by this. It's been around for about ten
years and it would bring several benefits to Watford." Lara Hejazi, a
representative of Hertfordshire County Council, which is leading the
link project, insisted that it remained a priority scheme.

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
John Burke
WRUG

£13m on redeveloping Watford Junc over a 7 year period. What are they
doing for God's sake that a mear £13m will take 7 years. Lets hope it
includes a safe crossing point for pedestrians to the station. I see
that the forecourt is still blocked off and when I enquired how much
longer it would be was told "what had it got to do with me".
Customer and I pay you wages immediately came to mind. The staff at
Watford certainly have an attitude problem.

Kevin

burkey wrote:
From Watford Observer online 15/07/06

Mixed bag for transport schemes

FUNDING for one major transport scheme in Watford was approved by the
Government last week, but another was found to still need more work.

About £13m will be spent on redeveloping Watford Junction Station
between 2009 and 2016, the Department for Transport (DfT) has said.
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

continued...

News that the link has not yet been approved has been met with dismay
by Watford Friends of the Earth. Representative Terry Figg, said:
"We're extremely disappointed by this. It's been around for about ten
years and it would bring several benefits to Watford." Lara Hejazi, a
representative of Hertfordshire County Council, which is leading the
link project, insisted that it remained a priority scheme.

If our beloved politicians cannot deal with a simple project like the
Croxley Link, that gives enormous benefits for little outlay, what hope
is there for the UK's transportation infrastructure? This is very
disappointing.

Adrian.

wrote:

If our beloved politicians cannot deal with a simple project like the
Croxley Link, that gives enormous benefits for little outlay, what hope
is there for the UK's transportation infrastructure? This is very
disappointing.

Adrian.

The best part of £100m is not what I would call a little outlay but
compared to the likes of the Dome then it is peanuts.

kevin

wrote:
wrote:
burkey wrote:
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

(snip)

If our beloved politicians cannot deal with a simple project like the
Croxley Link,

As I understand it, they have *dealt* with it, by declining it as it
has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for approval.

that gives enormous benefits for little outlay,

Define 'enormous' and 'little' (£50m), and compare and contrast with
other projects.

Nothing is inexpensive these days. I refer you to Mr. Ford's
references to "Boiling Frogs".

All such projects are assessed for costs and benefits. Any idea what
the CBA is for this project and why it doesn't meet the criteria?

No, and I don't know the criterea these guys utilize. How does one
quantify the benefits of reconnecting all Metroland to the main line?

what hope is there for the UK's transportation infrastructure?

I suspect that the next spending review will allocate more to transport
(though not that much more).

However I'm not sure that infrastructure will benefit, rather more
revenue subsidy will go to bus.

Subsidies are always with use. New infrastrucure is a one time
expense, sort of.

I'd guess there will be some money in there for growth. Which projects
get that will be the key, but projects in the various RUS will get
what's going.

This is very disappointing.


Agreed


PH

Kev wrote:
wrote:

If our beloved politicians cannot deal with a simple project like the
Croxley Link, that gives enormous benefits for little outlay, what hope
is there for the UK's transportation infrastructure? This is very
disappointing.

Adrian.

The best part of £100m is not what I would call a little outlay but
compared to the likes of the Dome then it is peanuts.

kevin

Does this GBP100,000.000.00 factor in the money generated be
redeveloping Watford (Met.) station and the related RoW?

Adrian.

Solario wrote:
Does this GBP100,000.000.00 factor in the money generated be
redeveloping Watford (Met.) station and the related RoW?

Or the £18million promised by Ken through TfL's five-year investment
programme? I think not.

The most recent cost quoted for the Croxley Link was on the TfL site
and was £65m (2004 prices). I can't see how, even with construction
inflation, that the last two years would have seen a 50%+ increase in
this figure. Take away Ken's £18m from the last available price and
we're back to around £50million.

Put another eway, it's about half the cost of a white-elephant guided
busway in Cambridgeshire... ;-)

THC

THC wrote:
Solario wrote:
Does this GBP100,000.000.00 factor in the money generated be
redeveloping Watford (Met.) station and the related RoW?

Or the £18million promised by Ken through TfL's five-year investment
programme? I think not.

The most recent cost quoted for the Croxley Link was on the TfL site
and was £65m (2004 prices). I can't see how, even with construction
inflation, that the last two years would have seen a 50%+ increase in
this figure. Take away Ken's £18m from the last available price and
we're back to around £50million.

Put another eway, it's about half the cost of a white-elephant guided
busway in Cambridgeshire... ;-)

THC
This came up about a year ago and the price quoted was ninety something
million pounds, certainly not £65m. That was construction costs, I
assume. I have no idea what the source of funds was, ie did it include
any beneifits from redeveopment of Watford Met station.
I don't see what Ken's (not that it is his anyway) £18m has to do with
it.If it costs say £95m then it cost £95m, the fact that £18 come
from TfL or the EU for that matter doesn't affect what you are getting
for the best part of £100m.

Kevin

Solario wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
burkey wrote:
However, the Croxley Rail Link, a plan to extend the Metropolitan Line
to Watford Junction, has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for
approval.

The DfT has said that it anticipates the scheme will be approved within
the next ten years but that it will need close scrutiny in terms of
value for money. It would take at least £50m to realise the proposed
extension.

(snip)

If our beloved politicians cannot deal with a simple project like the
Croxley Link,
As I understand it, they have *dealt* with it, by declining it as it
has yet to meet the appropriate conditions for approval.

that gives enormous benefits for little outlay,
Define 'enormous' and 'little' (£50m), and compare and contrast with
other projects.

Nothing is inexpensive these days. I refer you to Mr. Ford's
references to "Boiling Frogs".

All such projects are assessed for costs and benefits. Any idea what
the CBA is for this project and why it doesn't meet the criteria?

No, and I don't know the criterea these guys utilize. How does one
quantify the benefits of reconnecting all Metroland to the main line?

One of the main criteria used is probably time savings, converted to a
monetary value. This will factor in time savings for existing travellers
as well as benefits for new travellers and disbenefits for those who
will no longer travel or will switch to less favourable modes.

Other monetised benefits/disbenefits will be:
- changes in road congestion
- changes in fare revenues (for both LUL and local buses)
- changes in operating costs
- changes in indirect tax revenue (usually a loss if car drivers switch
to the new public transport)
- changes in number of accidents (usually important because it can have
a large monetary magnitude)
- changes in noise levels

These will be measured against the capital costs of infrastructure and
rolling stock as distributed over a set period, something like 50 years
from opening. The output is the BCR (benefit-cost ratio) or NPV (net
present value) figure, the former measuring how good value for money the
scheme is, and the latter measuring the magnitude of the return on
investment.

However, there is an additional part of the assessment which deals with
non-monetised benefits and disbenefits - to do with various
environmental and social factors. Examples are impact on
landscape/townscape, biodiversity, historic resources, water, journey
ambience, greenhouse gas emissions, severance, access to transport, ease
of modal interchange, and compatibility with land-use policy and other
policies. Most of these are given a score (and are thus more subjective
than the monetised benefits) except for greenhouse gas emissions which
are quantified as CO2-equivalent tonnes.

So although the first-glance BCR or NPV figure may not "sell" a project,
the non-monetised factors will affect how the monetised value is
treated. An example I've been told is that building a new airport in
Hyde Park would have a big positive BCR (huge journey time savings!),
but obviously it would never happen because it would receive a rather
less impressive score for the non-monetised factors.

Additionally, monetary values are usually calculated for several
different options for a project, including a "do-nothing" scenario and
some soft measures, and the values for the preferred option are compared
against this (e.g. if the do-nothing scenario has a large negative NPV,
e.g. -£50m, then the preferred project may be favourable even if its NPV
is quite small, e.g. +£5m).

Of course, I don't know how this applies to the Croxley Link unless
someone can produce the summary table which such assessments are
required to produce.

(snip rest)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London