Pavement cycling
 

I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a cyclists
presence.

I used to think the cyclist had a bit of a raw deal, now I'm not so sure.

What's really getting to me recently is the incredibly self righteous
prowling our pavements. I had a run in with one last night who came hurtling
toward a group waiting at a bus stop. Accusing one man of "trying to be
macho" for not getting out of his way, he then offered his opinions on "all
of us driving our cars and polluting the air" in spite of the fact that we
were obviously waiting for a bus. Not letting this pass without comment,
myself and another would be bus passenger were offered the opportunity for
mortal combat with this shaven headed screamer. He would never understand
why I declined, in spite of being equally fit and about 30% larger.

The place of course was none other than Britain's favourite street,
Streatham High Road.

What worries me most about this is that it's reached the point that this is
considered normal behaviour and a whole generation have come to understand
that no-one wants to enforce the law, or even that such laws exist in the
first place.

In the absence of law, perhaps our Mayor should be tackling this as a vermin
issue, he's quite upstanding when it comes to pidgeons I hear.

Jeff Mowatt

Pavement cycling
 

I also get very irritated and the continual floating of traffic lights. I
ride to the station at 5am on some mornings but still wait for the traffic
lights to change to green before proceeding even though most times there is
no traffic on the roads. I'm sure a cyclist 'jumping' a red light would soon
have something to say to the, for once innocent, Volvo driver! I wonder if
the police might turn a blind eye if I were to 'jump' a red light in my car?
(No responses please!). As for the pavements, the preserve of the
pedestrian, what is up with grown adults (who should know far better) who
insist on riding on the pavement without a by or leave for the people who
are walking on it? I refuse to get out of their way (so long as they ain't
hurtling towards me at great speeds of course. I aint THAT stupid). Time to
dismount my soap box now!
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates
many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a
piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is
the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a
cyclists
presence.

As a cyclist and as a driver, I do everything in by power to prevent the
conflict between a cyclist going straight in and a driver turning left,
because I'm never sure who has priority over whom but the cyclist would
come
off worst:

- as a cyclist I will always look for a driver's left-turn indicator if
I'm
alongside him approaching a left turn: if he indicates, I will hang back
instead of being alongside him

- as a driver, I will move close to the kerb if I see a cyclist in my
rear-view or door mirror and I want to turn left, forcing him to overtake
on
the right as traffic should do - although I believe the Highway Code has
something to say about overtaking traffic that is turning at a junction


In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best
place for a cyclist to be - he's less of a hazard to drivers who may be
doing three times his speed. On a crowded city street, it's a differnt
matter - few pedestrians (except me) look out for other pedestrians, never
mind cyclists - and cars and cyclists are likely to be going at much more
similar speeds so cyclists are less of a hazard to drivers.

I fell foul of an irate woman when I was out cycling the other month. I
was
riding on a fast A road and, being tired as I approached the top of a hill
at a mere 10 mph, I pulled off the road onto a pavement at a convenient
dropped kerb - I judged that it was safer to stop and dismount away from
the
traffic. I'd ridden about 2 yards onto the pavement before stopping. The
woman was about 100 yards away and there were no other people around. As
she
approached while I was getting my breath back she gave me a real
ear-bashing
for "riding on the pavement".

Pavement cycling
 

I also get very irritated and the continual floating of traffic lights. I
ride to the station at 5am on some mornings but still wait for the traffic
lights to change to green before proceeding even though most times there is
no traffic on the roads. I'm sure a cyclist 'jumping' a red light would soon
have something to say to the, for once innocent, Volvo driver! I wonder if
the police might turn a blind eye if I were to 'jump' a red light in my car?
(No responses please!). As for the pavements, the preserve of the
pedestrian, what is up with grown adults (who should know far better) who
insist on riding on the pavement without a by or leave for the people who
are walking on it? I refuse to get out of their way (so long as they ain't
hurtling towards me at great speeds of course. I aint THAT stupid). Time to
dismount my soap box now!
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates
many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a
piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is
the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a
cyclists
presence.

As a cyclist and as a driver, I do everything in by power to prevent the
conflict between a cyclist going straight in and a driver turning left,
because I'm never sure who has priority over whom but the cyclist would
come
off worst:

- as a cyclist I will always look for a driver's left-turn indicator if
I'm
alongside him approaching a left turn: if he indicates, I will hang back
instead of being alongside him

- as a driver, I will move close to the kerb if I see a cyclist in my
rear-view or door mirror and I want to turn left, forcing him to overtake
on
the right as traffic should do - although I believe the Highway Code has
something to say about overtaking traffic that is turning at a junction


In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best
place for a cyclist to be - he's less of a hazard to drivers who may be
doing three times his speed. On a crowded city street, it's a differnt
matter - few pedestrians (except me) look out for other pedestrians, never
mind cyclists - and cars and cyclists are likely to be going at much more
similar speeds so cyclists are less of a hazard to drivers.

I fell foul of an irate woman when I was out cycling the other month. I
was
riding on a fast A road and, being tired as I approached the top of a hill
at a mere 10 mph, I pulled off the road onto a pavement at a convenient
dropped kerb - I judged that it was safer to stop and dismount away from
the
traffic. I'd ridden about 2 yards onto the pavement before stopping. The
woman was about 100 yards away and there were no other people around. As
she
approached while I was getting my breath back she gave me a real
ear-bashing
for "riding on the pavement".

Pavement cycling
 

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes
In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best place for a cyclist to be

Until someone steps out of their garden/house/shop onto the pavement
without first looking to make sure no cyclists are taking advantage of a
quiet road.
Cyclists should only be on the pavement if they are off their bike and
walking it along.
And certain cyclists need to remember that red lights at pedestrian
crossings apply to them too. Crossing the road at crossing A whole group
of us and cyclist nearly went into us. Straight through a red light.
--
CJG

Pavement cycling
 

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message m, Martin
Underwood writes
In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best place for a cyclist to be

Until someone steps out of their garden/house/shop onto the pavement
without first looking to make sure no cyclists are taking advantage of a
quiet road.

As I said before, most pedestrians don't even look before walking out in
front of other pedestrians, so what hope is there for them looking for
cyclists? If only pedestrians were as disciplined as motorists.

I was talking about a deserted pavement in the countryside, not one with
driveways and shops on.

Reluctantly I still think that the differential speed between pedestrian and
bike (20 mph) is better than the differential speed between car and bike (40
mph). The moral of the story is that there should be many more cycle/horse
lanes.

Cyclists should only be on the pavement if they are off their bike and
walking it along.
And certain cyclists need to remember that red lights at pedestrian
crossings apply to them too. Crossing the road at crossing A whole group
of us and cyclist nearly went into us. Straight through a red light.

And also that zebra crossings apply to them. I witnessed a nasty accident
once where a cyclist was riding hell for leather down Blackboy Hill in
Bristol, weaving around cars, and failed to stop at a zebra crossing at
which all the other cars had stopped. He tried to swerve around the
pedestrian who was on the crossing, skidded and cannoned into first the
person on the crossing and then a load of passers by on the pavement. He and
his bike came off worst (poetic justice for once) though he threatened to
"sue the arse" off the woman on the zebra crossing - until he saw a
conveniently-placed policeman and realised the he didn't have a leg to stand
on (or a bike to sit on!).

Pavement cycling
 

Thanks all for those thoughts. I'm pleased to learn that there's a concensus
that the pavement should be a place for walking and one shouldn't need to be
looking over one's shoulder all the time for cyclist appearing from nowhere.

A few years back I signed up with that London cycling campaign but cancelled
the subscription when I heard their director talking on the BBC, trying to
justify the very thing we are talking about here. His argument being that
it was understandable since our roads are too hazardous, which of course
they are, but it doesn't mean we have to intimidate others.

From his hysterical statements, the young man in my example quite obviously
believed he was standing up for a cause, the freedom to engage in healthy
exercise unipeded by the nuisance of pedestrians. To be fair there are many
pavement cyclists who defer to those who might not be aware of their
presence, but there's a growing trend for quite the opposite, a kind of
street fascism which is not that far removed from his expression of
individual freedom and we don't even have the sound of jackboots to alert
us.

Quite often one sees groups of youths patrolling the pavement together
weaving in and out of pedestrians in an agressive manner. It is obviously
meant to intimidate, perhaps claim ownership of an area and maybe distract
attention from ongoing crime. For many there's simply the quite reasonable
fear of street robbery and a quick getaway for the perpetrators.

I can't imagine I'm the only one to notice these things, but it seems to go
completely over the heads of those that we pay to provide safety and free
passage on our streets.

Jeff Mowatt

Pavement cycling
 

"Jeff Mowatt" wrote the following in:


Thanks all for those thoughts. I'm pleased to learn that there's a
concensus that the pavement should be a place for walking and one
shouldn't need to be looking over one's shoulder all the time for
cyclist appearing from nowhere.

A few years back I signed up with that London cycling campaign but
cancelled the subscription when I heard their director talking on
the BBC, trying to justify the very thing we are talking about
here. His argument being that it was understandable since our
roads are too hazardous, which of course they are, but it doesn't
mean we have to intimidate others.

From his hysterical statements, the young man in my example quite
obviously believed he was standing up for a cause, the freedom to
engage in healthy exercise unipeded by the nuisance of
pedestrians. To be fair there are many pavement cyclists who defer
to those who might not be aware of their presence, but there's a
growing trend for quite the opposite, a kind of street fascism
which is not that far removed from his expression of individual
freedom and we don't even have the sound of jackboots to alert us.

I must admit to being a regular pavement cyclist. I often cycle on the
way to and from my local station and while I try as much as possible to
stay on the road, there are some stretches where the nature of the road
forces me to cycle on the pavement. In particular there is one stretch
with speed bumps so numerous and severe that it's both uncomfortable
and tiring to cycle there, and another where the traffic is so fast and
constant that it is near impossible and extremely dangerous to cross
the road to get to the correct side for cycling. There is a mini-
roundabout that should make it easy for a road user to join the faster
road, but in practice this roundabout is ignored by almost all drivers
even if you're in a car. If you're on a bike you have no chance
whatsoever.

On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible. I avoid pedestrians and slow down and cycle behind
them at walking pace, keeping a good distance away from them, if they
are blocking the whole pavement.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

Pavement cycling
 

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message ws.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

I phoned up the Police the other night to complain about noisy
neigbobours, then, as usual about a week later he turned up on a bike
and then rode off, on the pavement with no helmet

Pavement cycling
 

CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Robin May
writes
On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible.

If you were showing them respect your be walking your bike rather
than riding it. Pavements are there for walking. Not riding a bike
on. End of story.

I hope some time I come across you while riding my bike on a pavement,
as I shall feel happy showing you disrespect.

Ooh, what's this, am I posting this from an LUL email address? No, of
course not, but don't let that stop you from making the accusation.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

Pavement cycling
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Robin May
writes
On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible.

If you were showing them respect your be walking your bike rather
than riding it. Pavements are there for walking. Not riding a bike
on. End of story.

I hope some time I come across you while riding my bike on a pavement,
as I shall feel happy showing you disrespect.


If I meet you whilst you are pavement cycling I will be happy to make it as
difficult as possible for you to pass.

Victor

Pavement cycling
 

On 1 Aug 2003 18:05:36 GMT, Robin May
wrote:

CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Robin May
writes
On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible.

If you were showing them respect your be walking your bike rather
than riding it. Pavements are there for walking. Not riding a bike
on. End of story.

I hope some time I come across you while riding my bike on a pavement,
as I shall feel happy showing you disrespect.

Have you been instructing the kids on Holloway Road in the ways of
righteousness? I nearly pushed one into oncoming traffic this morning
because he was coming up behind me fast, I didn't see him and I
stepped into his path. You know, it's not second nature to assume
you're in a fast moving vehicular path when you're walking to the
tube.

It's worse at night, because none of them have anything approximating
to lights.

Cycling on the pavement is bloody stupid. Cycles and pedestrians don't
mix. Where would you have us walk, if the pavements are too dangerous?
In the road? Swinging from lamp-post to lamp-post like so many
commuting gibbons?

R

Pavement cycling
 

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:32:32 GMT Martin Underwood wrote:
}
} In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
} pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the best
} place for a cyclist to be - he's less of a hazard to drivers who may be
} doing three times his speed. On a crowded city street, it's a differnt
} matter - few pedestrians (except me) look out for other pedestrians, never
} mind cyclists - and cars and cyclists are likely to be going at much more
} similar speeds so cyclists are less of a hazard to drivers.

Unfortunately the practical approach takes a degree of thought that some
seem unwilling to invest in the problem. Riding on the pavement where
sensible too easily translates into riding on the pavement anywhere.
The kids do it around here in a quiet residential area where there is
no reason to and considerable danger to pedestrians on narrow pavements.
Not just the kids either, one local takes his daughter to school riding
on the cross-bar of his bike. Using the pavements and the footpath that
affords the quickest route because with his daughter on board is "isn't
safe" to use those aforementioned quiet streets. Sheesh...

Occasionally the reverse might apply. Along Temple Mill Lane E15
there's a shared pavement and cycle lane that's so thoroughly covered in
grit and dust that it is far safer to join the vehicles on the road than
risk using it.

[Rose-tinted spectacles time] When I were a kid... Well, seriously when
I was at Junior school a police officer came into the school for one
day every term to put us cyclists through our paces, make sure we knew
the rules and how to ride safely. I wonder if anything like that goes
on these days becasue I see very little evidence of it on the roads.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Pavement cycling
 

Good point, Matthew

I wonder what effort, if any, the police make nowadays? Here in SW London
I don't see much evidence but then it's rather more likely that one will
run into the film set of "The Bill" than a real policemen. I suppose that
might be some kind of deterrent. But then, I've even seen one of them (the
ex-Broodside chappie) cycling up to the front entrance of Safeway and
dismounting in the doorway. Some role model!

Jeff


[Rose-tinted spectacles time] When I were a kid... Well, seriously when
I was at Junior school a police officer came into the school for one
day every term to put us cyclists through our paces, make sure we knew
the rules and how to ride safely. I wonder if anything like that goes
on these days becasue I see very little evidence of it on the roads.

Pavement cycling
 

I wonder if anyone here was the "gentleman" aged about 50 who blythely
sailed through a group including 3 young children and a pregant woman who'd
waited patienty at the pedestrian crossing on Westminster Bridge on Saturday
morning? I won't repeat here what I expressed at the time, only remind you
that you are old enough to know better. Why did you look so offended I
wonder?

Getting metaphorically, back in the saddle and also on my soapbox, there's
something else the cyclist has to endure and the way in which many
motorcyclists behave. We often occupy the same roadspace and meeting one
head on in a "game of chicken" with them on the wrong side of the road is a
frequent experience while attempting a right turn or positioning for one at
traffic lights.

More than once I've been forced out of my saddle by those that insist on
using designated cycle routes and can't wait for legitmate users to go
through the barriers provided specifically for our use. I won't condone
pavement cycling but I can understand why so many are put off using the
roads.

In many cases these barriers are vandalised such that the passage of
motorcycles, specifically scooters, is more easily facilitated. I've been
trying to persuade Wandsworth Council to repair one in front of a local
school for the past 18 months to no avail. I've even seen one of their
traffic wardens in full uniforrn abusing this particular barrier at the time
when many children cycle to school. The Council don't see it as an issue,
obviously.

Jeff Mowatt

Pavement cycling
 

Jeff Mowatt wrote:

Thanks all for those thoughts. I'm pleased to learn that there's a concensus
that the pavement should be a place for walking and one shouldn't need to be
looking over one's shoulder all the time for cyclist appearing from nowhere.

This consensus is unfortunately not shared by many traffic engineers,
who tend to think
(1) that pedestrians and cyclists are second-class citizens who have to
be kept out of the way of cars
(2) that pedestrians are too stupid to keep out of the way of cars
unless fenced in
(3) that no normal person is willing to share a road with fast or heavy
traffic on a bike.

They then engineer the road to maximise the difficulty of motor vehicles
overtaking any cyclist that does have the temerity to use the road -
thus ensuring that cyclists are frightened off.

If they have money for cycling, they will try to spend it on converting
pavements to shared use, regardless of the type of road. I am in the
process of trying to prevent a developer making the pavements shared-use
alongside roads that are being implemented as a 'home zone' - which
supposedly prioritises people over motor vehicles.

I am ONLY in favour of shared use pavements for contraflow travel along
a dual carriageway to get to the nearest crossing point.

I also believe cycling should generally be allowed on footpaths that
don't parallel roads. The idea of park rangers having the power to fine
inconsiderate or dangerous cyclists on the spot is also a good one.

From his hysterical statements, the young man in my example quite obviously
believed he was standing up for a cause, the freedom to engage in healthy
exercise unipeded by the nuisance of pedestrians. To be fair there are many
pavement cyclists who defer to those who might not be aware of their
presence, but there's a growing trend for quite the opposite, a kind of
street fascism which is not that far removed from his expression of
individual freedom and we don't even have the sound of jackboots to alert
us.

There is an urgent need for good on-road cycle training. Proper
assertive cycling can cope with almost any road conditions safely,
albeit sometimes at the cost of annoying drivers on roads that have been
engineered without any thought of cyclists. Very few drivers
deliberately endanger cyclists; you have to learn to control them so
that they don't do so inadvertently. I'd almost go so far as to say that
if you are frightened off any road, you need more cycle training - but I
might make an exception for narrow, twisty roads with 50 or 60 mph
limits.

Colin McKenzie

Pavement cycling
 

In article , CJG
writes
Until someone steps out of their garden/house/shop onto the pavement
without first looking to make sure no cyclists are taking advantage of
a quiet road.

There's a problem in that most official shared-use cycle routes do
exactly that and with little thought to people who - quite rightly -
are coming out of their residences. And there's now a feeling amongst
most drivers that if there's a cycle-path then cyclists should be on it
rather than the road, even if the path is more dangerous to pedestrian
and cyclist.
The thoughtlessness of council road safety officers is legion amongst
cyclists, as they mostly appear to be just blindly following some
'target', rather than really thinking through problems.

There are strong parallels between drivers and cyclists; most are
pretty well-behaved most of the time but unfortunately there are two
types that continuously flout the Highway Code - these are the
Boy-racers and the Lazy Susans.
Boy-racers are obvious as they are continually cycle on pavements,
down the wrong way on one-way streets and cut through red traffic
lights. Their driving equivalent screeches round corners, races
everywhere, wears a baseball cap and plays stuff on his 1kw stereo that
only has bass lines.
The Lazy Susan driver is normally in a 4x4, distracted by children, on
a mobile phone and is making a shopping list up in her mind. The cyclist
equivalent cycles an extremely clapped out bike with an annoying squeak,
never stops for traffic lights but is always cycling so slowly and far
from the kerb that she then manages to block all the cyclists who did
stop from overtaking her. This goes on ad infinitum for about five
traffic lights until she's taken out with a well-aimed machete.

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill