On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:32:05 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.

AFAIK this is still the case - you can't buy a ticket that *starts*
with a Tube journey[1] from an NR ticket office. You are expected to
buy it from the LU ticket office where you start your journey. This is
despite the fact that (AFAIK) you can't buy things like Saver Returns
(returns valid for more than 1 day) from LU ticket offices, and then
there's the murky issue of to what extent they accept Railcards. I'm
also not sure if they sell tickets to outside the NSE area - so you
could buy a ticket to Oxford Circus at Edinburgh, but not the other
way round (they'd sell you a Z1 single and tell you to rebook at
King's Cross).


[1] By this I mean tickets From U1(23...). [2]

Though if you buy a return from e.g. Brighton to U1, the return part
will be printed "From U1 To Brighton", which you can't get as a single
or outward part.

[2] To be pedantic, you could sometimes start with a Tube journey on
an NR ticket due to interavailability, e.g. London Terminals to
Shenfield ticket using the Tube from Liverpool Street to Stratford
then changing to NR.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:06:57 +0100, "Michael Hopkins"
wrote:


This is the same ticket seller who attempted to refuse to sell me a YP
railcard when I had all the paperwork needed, but she was used to a
different combination of the paperwork.

I once wandered into a station and said I 'd like to buy a railcard.
The chap asked if I'd filled in the form. "No". He then launched into
a lecture about how I should have filled the form in *before* going to
the station. So where do I get this form, I asked. From the station,
he said.

long pause while he thought through what he was saying
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100,
asdf wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.


Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).
Extremely useful, thankyou. At least now, when I'm at the station, I
know what to ask for depending on how and where I want to travel.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:09:16 +0100,
Barry Salter wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100, asdf
wrote:

Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);

Correct. Shown on Map LM.

Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

Where can I find this map LM? And how do I know that this is the right
map for my season ticket?

And are you saying here that the ONLY route I can use my season ticket
on is Watford Junction to London Euston (and the intermediate stations
on that route) or can I also use it going to Clapham Junction (which I
notice silverlink trains now runs a service to according to their
timetable - e.g.:

Saturday Watford Junction (07:21), calling at Harrow and Wealdstone,
Wembley Central, Willesden Jn (High Level), Kensington Olympia, West
Brompton, Clapham Junction (08:29)

(In general, when I'm doing these journeys I want the fastest ticket,
not the cheapest. But it would be nice to buy what I need as cheaply as
possible. Obviously, my ticket is valid to Willesden Junction but is it
valid on the trains going to Clapham Junction - The "slow" train to
Euston is quicker to Willesden Junction than the direct train to Clapham
Junction but sometimes I want the simplest ticket - e.g. the no change
train to Brighton which is run by Southern but calls at Kensington
Olympia, west brompton and clapham Junction, same as the silverlink
trains)

I've got no problem if my season ticket is only valid on the one line -
that's what I bought it for and I stopped taking the Z1-6 underground
bit (IIRC ~200GBP extra) because I use it so rarely that it's cheaper to
pay when I do use it - but it would be nice to know what extra options I
do have, if any.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Barry Salter wrote:

In terms of the routeing guide, it'd need to be Willesden Junction for
the reason given above. In terms of physical layout, probably Harlesden
or, more likely, Wembley Central, given the line from Willesden West
London Junction to West London Junction doesn't go anywhere *near*
Willesden Junction Station and, of course, the AC lines don't have
platforms between Wembley and Willesden WLJ.

I asked this question in the NG the other week, and the consensus was
that Willesden would do, or if not Stonebridge Park, given that
typically the existence of platforms doesn't matter. I think I'd go
for Wembley Central, though, on the grounds that it would definitely
avoid arguments and wouldn't likely cost a lot more.

The big question (and I think it's quite an important one) is whether
the DC lines are part of the WCML, or whether they form a set of
distinct loops joined only to the WCML at Watford, Bushey, Harrow,
Wembley Central and possibly Queen's Park. The same question could be
asked elsewhere - are the slow lines through Euxton Balshaw Lane, or
Thirsk, or Levenshulme/Heaton Chapel and so on distinct loops because
not all trains pass a platform, or are they part of the line?

That said, the question will be moot once LUL take over.

Neil

Tim Woodall wrote:

Where can I find this map LM? And how do I know that this is the right
map for my season ticket?

Google "National Routeing Guide", but be warned it moves frequently.
Either that or ask to see it at the station, but given my experience of
Watford Junction station staff as being both rude and incompetent I
wouldn't hold out much hope of them even knowing what it was yet alone
letting you see it.

And are you saying here that the ONLY route I can use my season ticket
on is Watford Junction to London Euston (and the intermediate stations
on that route) or can I also use it going to Clapham Junction (which I
notice silverlink trains now runs a service to according to their
timetable - e.g.:

The former, IMO. Clapham Junction is *not* a London Terminal, nor is
Kenny O, though I guess there is a reasonable argument that it probably
should be.

Saturday Watford Junction (07:21), calling at Harrow and Wealdstone,
Wembley Central, Willesden Jn (High Level), Kensington Olympia, West
Brompton, Clapham Junction (08:29)

Read it again, it's a connectional service as the first 3 times are in
italics.

Neil

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:09:16 +0100, Barry Salter wrote:

Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.
Mapped routes are determined by: shortest route from origin to origin
RP + route from origin RP to destination RP traced out on map(s) +
shortest route from destination RP to destination.

In article , asdf
writes
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.

So what? Vauxhall isn't a London Terminal.

The only Permitted Route from Watford Junction to London Terminals is
the obvious one to Euston.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , asdf
writes
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.

So what? Vauxhall isn't a London Terminal.

The only Permitted Route from Watford Junction to London Terminals is the
obvious one to Euston.

Actually Vauxhall is a London Terminal for some strange reason. See
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM/sectiona.pdf (page A4).

Peter Smyth

I was travelling from Westcombe Park to Paddington once (single
required, I was catching the sleeper to Penzance) and used the ticket
machine at WP station (ticket office closed).

I duly typed in my destination as Paddington but it only charged me the
normal Paddington to London Terminals fare (£2.50 if memory serves).
The ticket recorded the destination as London Terminals but I still
hoped that I'd be able to get all the way to Paddington for this price.

Probably needless to say, when I tried to use the ticket to enter the
Bakerloo line at Charing X, it was rejected. I ended up having to pay
£3 for a single to Paddington.

I was a bit miffed because I felt that if I'd been sold the correct
ticket at WP station, it would have been less than £5.50 (=£2.50 +
£3).

Or is there a round-the-houses route from Westcombe Park to Paddington
on surface rail only (ie avoiding the underground) that I could have
used my ticket for?

Regards