Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

--
Andrew Black
London

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)


Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

Yes it would be accepted but the gate would not know you have come from
the south.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Correct.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

You were lucky but the fault was with the ticket issuer not you.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)

The reason, I suspect, for the confusion is the existence of the service
from Watford via the West London Line. I don't know the rules that
apply to that service or whether Clapham Junction is part of "London
Terminals" in respect of that service.

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.
However this is a very long time ago and I'm sure life must have moved
on. I hope one of our resident NR ticket experts will arrive shortly.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Tim Woodall wrote:
...I know my Gold Card doesn't [work on the Underground], having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

I have the opposite "problem" to Tim. I have a Cambridge-London
Terminals Annual Gold Card. In my case the terminals are King's Cross
and Moorgate (plus Liverpool Street) which is handy as I can walk to
work from Moorgate.

The NFM handily states that such tickets are also valid by LU between
KX and Moorgate. And this is what I do every day, using my London
Terminals ticket to open the gates at KX and Moorgate.

So my "problem" is that whenever I exit the LU station at KX I have to
remember whether I have just travelled from Moorgate (in whch I need to
insert my Cambridge ticket in the gates) or whether I have travelled
from another LU station using my pre-pay Oyster.
About twice a month I absent-mindedly use my Cambridge ticket to leave
the station when I should have touched-out with my Oyster, leaving me
with an unresolved journey on the Oyster.

PauO

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

As is so often the case with stations "South of the River" [1], you have
been mis-sold a ticket.
[1] Not that I'm suggesting those North of the River are perfect, but
the vast majority of issuing errors I've come across have been from
Southeastern, Southern and South West Trains trains stations.

The classic one I have to argue everytime at Farnham station (especially if
I get the ticket seller widely known to be less intelligent than the rest)
is that if I ask for a travelcard and an extension from Boundary Zone 6 to x
(say Brighton, for the sake of argument), instead of getting what I ask for,
I am sold the travelcard and a ticket for Surbiton (the boundary station) to
x.

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Aidan Stanger wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

I believe not, quite a recent change though I believe. I only know this
from looking through various fares on the avantix mobile and seeing
that a weekly to london terminals is different to a weekly to
Kensington Olympia

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:

I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

This is correct. There have been reports recently (can't remember if
here or uk.railway) that certain ticket machines south of the river
will, if you try to buy a ticket to KXTL, issue you with a ticket
printed as being to London Terminals, but at the same price as the
KXTL ticket (i.e. more expensive).

Anyway, like you say, the gates at KXTL will apparently quite happily
accept any ticket to London Terminals, so your only problem is if you
encounter a gripper.

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:32:05 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.

AFAIK this is still the case - you can't buy a ticket that *starts*
with a Tube journey[1] from an NR ticket office. You are expected to
buy it from the LU ticket office where you start your journey. This is
despite the fact that (AFAIK) you can't buy things like Saver Returns
(returns valid for more than 1 day) from LU ticket offices, and then
there's the murky issue of to what extent they accept Railcards. I'm
also not sure if they sell tickets to outside the NSE area - so you
could buy a ticket to Oxford Circus at Edinburgh, but not the other
way round (they'd sell you a Z1 single and tell you to rebook at
King's Cross).


[1] By this I mean tickets From U1(23...). [2]

Though if you buy a return from e.g. Brighton to U1, the return part
will be printed "From U1 To Brighton", which you can't get as a single
or outward part.

[2] To be pedantic, you could sometimes start with a Tube journey on
an NR ticket due to interavailability, e.g. London Terminals to
Shenfield ticket using the Tube from Liverpool Street to Stratford
then changing to NR.

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:06:57 +0100, "Michael Hopkins"
wrote:


This is the same ticket seller who attempted to refuse to sell me a YP
railcard when I had all the paperwork needed, but she was used to a
different combination of the paperwork.

I once wandered into a station and said I 'd like to buy a railcard.
The chap asked if I'd filled in the form. "No". He then launched into
a lecture about how I should have filled the form in *before* going to
the station. So where do I get this form, I asked. From the station,
he said.

long pause while he thought through what he was saying
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100,
asdf wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.


Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).
Extremely useful, thankyou. At least now, when I'm at the station, I
know what to ask for depending on how and where I want to travel.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:09:16 +0100,
Barry Salter wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100, asdf
wrote:

Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);

Correct. Shown on Map LM.

Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

Where can I find this map LM? And how do I know that this is the right
map for my season ticket?

And are you saying here that the ONLY route I can use my season ticket
on is Watford Junction to London Euston (and the intermediate stations
on that route) or can I also use it going to Clapham Junction (which I
notice silverlink trains now runs a service to according to their
timetable - e.g.:

Saturday Watford Junction (07:21), calling at Harrow and Wealdstone,
Wembley Central, Willesden Jn (High Level), Kensington Olympia, West
Brompton, Clapham Junction (08:29)

(In general, when I'm doing these journeys I want the fastest ticket,
not the cheapest. But it would be nice to buy what I need as cheaply as
possible. Obviously, my ticket is valid to Willesden Junction but is it
valid on the trains going to Clapham Junction - The "slow" train to
Euston is quicker to Willesden Junction than the direct train to Clapham
Junction but sometimes I want the simplest ticket - e.g. the no change
train to Brighton which is run by Southern but calls at Kensington
Olympia, west brompton and clapham Junction, same as the silverlink
trains)

I've got no problem if my season ticket is only valid on the one line -
that's what I bought it for and I stopped taking the Z1-6 underground
bit (IIRC ~200GBP extra) because I use it so rarely that it's cheaper to
pay when I do use it - but it would be nice to know what extra options I
do have, if any.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Barry Salter wrote:

In terms of the routeing guide, it'd need to be Willesden Junction for
the reason given above. In terms of physical layout, probably Harlesden
or, more likely, Wembley Central, given the line from Willesden West
London Junction to West London Junction doesn't go anywhere *near*
Willesden Junction Station and, of course, the AC lines don't have
platforms between Wembley and Willesden WLJ.

I asked this question in the NG the other week, and the consensus was
that Willesden would do, or if not Stonebridge Park, given that
typically the existence of platforms doesn't matter. I think I'd go
for Wembley Central, though, on the grounds that it would definitely
avoid arguments and wouldn't likely cost a lot more.

The big question (and I think it's quite an important one) is whether
the DC lines are part of the WCML, or whether they form a set of
distinct loops joined only to the WCML at Watford, Bushey, Harrow,
Wembley Central and possibly Queen's Park. The same question could be
asked elsewhere - are the slow lines through Euxton Balshaw Lane, or
Thirsk, or Levenshulme/Heaton Chapel and so on distinct loops because
not all trains pass a platform, or are they part of the line?

That said, the question will be moot once LUL take over.

Neil

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Tim Woodall wrote:

Where can I find this map LM? And how do I know that this is the right
map for my season ticket?

Google "National Routeing Guide", but be warned it moves frequently.
Either that or ask to see it at the station, but given my experience of
Watford Junction station staff as being both rude and incompetent I
wouldn't hold out much hope of them even knowing what it was yet alone
letting you see it.

And are you saying here that the ONLY route I can use my season ticket
on is Watford Junction to London Euston (and the intermediate stations
on that route) or can I also use it going to Clapham Junction (which I
notice silverlink trains now runs a service to according to their
timetable - e.g.:

The former, IMO. Clapham Junction is *not* a London Terminal, nor is
Kenny O, though I guess there is a reasonable argument that it probably
should be.

Saturday Watford Junction (07:21), calling at Harrow and Wealdstone,
Wembley Central, Willesden Jn (High Level), Kensington Olympia, West
Brompton, Clapham Junction (08:29)

Read it again, it's a connectional service as the first 3 times are in
italics.

Neil

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:09:16 +0100, Barry Salter wrote:

Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.
Mapped routes are determined by: shortest route from origin to origin
RP + route from origin RP to destination RP traced out on map(s) +
shortest route from destination RP to destination.

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

In article , asdf
writes
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.

So what? Vauxhall isn't a London Terminal.

The only Permitted Route from Watford Junction to London Terminals is
the obvious one to Euston.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , asdf
writes
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

This is quite clearly *not* a permitted route on a Watford Junction to
London Terminals Season ticket, as the *ONLY* map listed is LM, which
does feature Clapham Junction, but not Vauxhall.

It doesn't need to feature Vauxhall.

Clapham Junction is (in this case) the Routeing Point for Vauxhall.

So what? Vauxhall isn't a London Terminal.

The only Permitted Route from Watford Junction to London Terminals is the
obvious one to Euston.

Actually Vauxhall is a London Terminal for some strange reason. See
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM/sectiona.pdf (page A4).

Peter Smyth

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

I was travelling from Westcombe Park to Paddington once (single
required, I was catching the sleeper to Penzance) and used the ticket
machine at WP station (ticket office closed).

I duly typed in my destination as Paddington but it only charged me the
normal Paddington to London Terminals fare (£2.50 if memory serves).
The ticket recorded the destination as London Terminals but I still
hoped that I'd be able to get all the way to Paddington for this price.

Probably needless to say, when I tried to use the ticket to enter the
Bakerloo line at Charing X, it was rejected. I ended up having to pay
£3 for a single to Paddington.

I was a bit miffed because I felt that if I'd been sold the correct
ticket at WP station, it would have been less than £5.50 (=£2.50 +
£3).

Or is there a round-the-houses route from Westcombe Park to Paddington
on surface rail only (ie avoiding the underground) that I could have
used my ticket for?

Regards

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Kensington Olympia has always been treated differently than Terminals.
Probably because it isnt a terminal

Davie

"Conductor in Charge of.........." wrote in
message ups.com...

Aidan Stanger wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

I believe not, quite a recent change though I believe. I only know this
from looking through various fares on the avantix mobile and seeing
that a weekly to london terminals is different to a weekly to
Kensington Olympia

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

In article ,
David wrote:
Kensington Olympia has always been treated differently than Terminals.
Probably because it isnt a terminal

Terminal is not the same as terminus. KO could be a terminal just like
Blackfriars or London Bridge.

--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

In message , at 11:32:18 on Mon, 14 Aug
2006, David H Wild remarked:
Terminal is not the same as terminus. KO could be a terminal just like
Blackfriars or London Bridge.

A better example is KX Thameslink, which has *no* terminus platforms
(unlike Blackfriars and LB).
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

In article , David H Wild
writes
Kensington Olympia has always been treated differently than Terminals.
Probably because it isnt a terminal
Terminal is not the same as terminus. KO could be a terminal just like
Blackfriars or London Bridge.

But KO is not a London Terminal within the meaning of the Routeing Guide
or ticketing.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:32:18 on Mon, 14
Aug 2006, David H Wild remarked:
Terminal is not the same as terminus. KO could be a terminal just
like Blackfriars or London Bridge.

A better example is KX Thameslink, which has *no* terminus
platforms (unlike Blackfriars and LB).

Arguably KX Thameslink hardly has *any* platforms. They are certainly
dangerously narrow.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

asdf wrote:
There have been reports recently (can't remember if
here or uk.railway) that certain ticket machines south of the river
will, if you try to buy a ticket to KXTL, issue you with a ticket
printed as being to London Terminals, but at the same price as the
KXTL ticket (i.e. more expensive).


Almost...

This information applies to trains from both Brockley and Honor Oak
Park stations, and I suspect applies to all of the Southern Metro
network. When selecting KXTL on the ticket machine, you are confronted
with several options, the two most important being CDRs to "KXTL" and
"KXTL (Not via Underground)". Both of these cost £1.60 (from Brockley
with YP railcard). However, only the latter will print out a KXTL
ticket, saying Not via Underground. If you choose the former, the
machine will merrily print out a London Terminals ticket. I suspect the
staff in the ticket offices are confronted with the same options.

I imagine the OP had the same problem from East Dulwich.

I've only ever had a problem once, when the ticket I had, which was a
London Terminals one, refused to work the gate at KXTL, and when I went
to be let out, the gate staff told me the ticket was invalid. I
insisted that was what the machine had sold me, and he let me out. This
was the first I knew about the whole problem, and since then I've
generally bought the Not via Underground ticket to be safe (except for
when I want to come home via Charing Cross, in which case the Terminals
ticket is very useful!).

As for the difference in the two tickets, I wonder if the first of the
two (the one that doesn't say Not via Underground) is therefore valid
on the Tube between London Bridge and KX. I've never tried it, being
too wary of having my ticket swallowed by the London Bridge gates.

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

Peter Smyth wrote:

Actually Vauxhall is a London Terminal for some strange reason.

Legacy of Nine Elms? ;-)

Kings Cross Thameslink & "London Terminals"
 

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:41:46 +0930, (Aidan Stanger)
wrote:

Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

I thought it was part of "Not London". It certainly is as far as
travel by Virgin's Brighton to Manchester trains are concerned.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org