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New victoria line trains
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee system or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days? B2003 |
New victoria line trains
In message .com,
Boltar writes Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee system or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days? Metronet are installing a brand new flavour of ATO on the Victoria line to replace the existing system. It will be different from that being developed for the Jubilee line as it's being supplied by a different company. The Victoria version, I would expect, should appear on their other lines (Bakerloo and SSL lines) as they get their signalling upgraded. As the Jubilee is being upgraded by Tubelines, expect to see the Jubilee system employed on the Northern and Piccadilly in due course. There have been a few items in Underground News from LURS about this recently. I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get what they are given as long as it meets the specification. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
New victoria line trains
On 28 Aug 2006 01:45:26 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee system or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days? Metronet are using Westinghouse's "distance to go" moving block signalling. http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1080661114828 http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1078652965937 Tube Lines are using the Alcatel system that works on the DLR, Paris RER and the Skytrain in Vancouver. There has been a fair amount of detail about both signalling schemes in Modern Railways over the last year or so. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New victoria line trains
Boltar wrote:
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. Neither of these were ever on the cards for the Victoria line - you're thinking of the SSL (Circle/Met/District/H&C) stock. The Victoria, like the other tube lines, is too curvy and height-restricted for walkthrough and OHLE respectively. From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add much... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
New victoria line trains
In message .com,
Boltar writes Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee system or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days? Metronet are installing a brand new flavour of ATO on the Victoria line to replace the existing system. It will be different from that being developed for the Jubilee line as it's being supplied by a different company. The Victoria version, I would expect, should appear on their other lines (Bakerloo and SSL lines) as they get their signalling upgraded. As the Jubilee is being upgraded by Tubelines, expect to see the Jubilee system employed on the Northern and Piccadilly in due course. There have been a few items in Underground News from LURS about this recently. I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get what they are given as long as it meets the specification. I know it's bad form to follow up ones own post, but another thought has occurred to me (I like to make the most of the few I get!!) When these upgrades are done, they are frequently done a number of years apart from each other. As technology will have moved on in the meantime, it's hardly surprising if some new development is used for the next (similar) project. Otherwise we might still be buying Standard Stock? -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
New victoria line trains
John B wrote:
Boltar wrote: Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. Neither of these were ever on the cards for the Victoria line Yes they were. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...a_c.html#Space The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add much... I don't think you can guaranteee that the line will not be extended to Northumberland Park or Pickets Lock during the lifetime of the new stock. Also, LUL have to think of revenue from in-tunnel moving adverts, which might exceed revenue from adverts inside cars. |
New victoria line trains
In article .com, John
B writes Neither of these were ever on the cards for the Victoria line - you're thinking of the SSL (Circle/Met/District/H&C) stock. The Victoria, like the other tube lines, is too curvy and height-restricted for walkthrough and OHLE respectively. Curious: I remember both these being proposed a few years ago (the "space train"). The OHLE would have been a rigid rail at 1500V DC or something like that, to provide extra power to the trains. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
New victoria line trains
John Rowland wrote:
John B wrote: Boltar wrote: Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. Neither of these were ever on the cards for the Victoria line Yes they were. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...a_c.html#Space The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add much... I don't think you can guaranteee that the line will not be extended to Northumberland Park or Pickets Lock during the lifetime of the new stock. In that case small windows will be very welcome in summer. Trains running on the surface with large windows and no air-conditioning become mobile greenhouses. The same goes for buses too. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
New victoria line trains
Steve Fitzgerald wrote: I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get what they are given as long as it meets the specification. Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new ATO signalling on the system. B2003 |
New victoria line trains
Richard J. wrote:
In that case small windows will be very welcome in summer. Trains running on the surface with large windows and no air-conditioning become mobile greenhouses. The same goes for buses too. Except TfL/the bus operators have no excuse for not putting air con on buses. There's hardly the same 'it's too hard' argument you have with the underground, just a matter of money - and air conditioning isn't expensive these days anyway. Jonathan |
New victoria line trains
In article . com,
Boltar writes Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new ATO signalling on the system. No (blame whoever wrote the contract), Yes (ditto), and Yes. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
New victoria line trains
On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote: Steve Fitzgerald wrote: I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get what they are given as long as it meets the specification. Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new ATO signalling on the system. B2003 Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with different suppliers (and inevitably will since Westinghouse is part of the Metronet consortium). It is going to cause a challenge for the lines where interworking of services occur (e.g. Baron's Court to Hanger Lane junction). P |
New victoria line trains
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:40:18 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: Metronet are using Westinghouse's "distance to go" moving block signalling. http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1080661114828 http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1078652965937 Tube Lines are using the Alcatel system that works on the DLR, Paris RER and the Skytrain in Vancouver. There has been a fair amount of detail about both signalling schemes in Modern Railways over the last year or so. I believe - and I'm ready to be corrected - that DTG is fixed block not moving block. Alcatel's S40 system is moving block (and as far as I know isn't used by RER - the other main reference site is KCR's WestRail in Hong Kong). P |
New victoria line trains
Windows smaller than 1992TS (1995/6TS were designed to align windows
with older 1983TS cars) and seats so upright and uncomfortable they're like a chuch pew! Is this progress??? |
New victoria line trains
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John B wrote:
Boltar wrote: From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add much... There are these occasional bits on the line, don't know if you've come across them at all, called 'stations', where there are sometimes things to look at - for example, the sign telling you which station it is, and thus whether, having dragged yourself out of your book, you should get off there. tom -- find porn apricot |
New victoria line trains
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Paul wrote:
On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar" wrote: Steve Fitzgerald wrote: I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get what they are given as long as it meets the specification. Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new ATO signalling on the system. Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with different suppliers PC manufacturers are free to go with different suppliers, and yet different brands of PCs seem to be remarkably compatible. Why can't the LU requirements include a detailed technical specification, and require compatibility with it? After all, they don't let each infraco use whatever track gauge or traction voltage they feel like, do they? That wouldn't affect supplier choice - an infraco could buy the gear from anyone, as long as it complied with the standard. tom -- find porn apricot |
New victoria line trains
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message .li... On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John B wrote: Boltar wrote: From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing. The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add much... There are these occasional bits on the line, don't know if you've come across them at all, called 'stations', where there are sometimes things to look at - for example, the sign telling you which station it is, and thus whether, having dragged yourself out of your book, you should get off there. Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look out of the window to see where you are. Peter Smyth |
New victoria line trains
Barry Salter wrote:
Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look out of the window to see where you are. This relies on the Train Operator having set up the PIS correctly and said PIS not sh*tting itself en route and deciding the train's going the other way. [1] Not on the Vic it doesn't - the PIS is linked to the ATO, rather than relying on button-pushing. I don't think I've ever been on a Vic train where the announcements have gone wrong (and barely ever one where they've been dead), and I've been commuting daily on the Vic for the last two years. I agree this can vary - I've heard things go wrong on the District, and the one on the Picc is pretty much never in service. Plus people actually like to be able to look out of the windows, at least on the surface sections that make up over 50% of the LU network. Not on the Vic it doesn't - unless people are stowing away on out-of-service trains to Northumberland Park... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
New victoria line trains
Peter Smyth wrote:
Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look out of the window to see where you are. But will they have the innovation I've seen in Germany, of having electronic arrows pointing at which side of the train the platform will be on? Never really understood why this doesn't happen in the UK: gradually I'm remembering which sides I want but arrows would greatly help people flow. -- Abi |
New victoria line trains
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New victoria line trains
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New victoria line trains
Barry Salter wrote:
Plus people actually like to be able to look out of the windows, at least on the surface sections that make up over 50% of the LU network. I bet they like windows even on the underground bits, as it seems to make people feel safe if they can see their environment. A Concorde pilot once gave a speech saying that any future supersonic plane should probably not have windows as they produce so much wind resistance and weaken the shell. Even the pilots could potentially do without, opting to use cameras (which could also give passengers a view of outside) to see. It wouldn't happen because nobody would feel safe (even I figured the cockpit bit might be a step too far), even though the windows aren't actually 'useful' for passengers. Jonathan |
New victoria line trains
Christian Hansen wrote:
I believe that Chicago and New York have tacked on "Doors open on the (left/right)" to their announcements. Not New York, unless there's something about the brand new R-160 cars (which first entered their testing phase and were then pulled from testing both while I was in London) that I'm unaware of. -- David of Broadway New York, NY, USA |
New victoria line trains
In message . com, John
B writes I don't think I've ever been on a Vic train where the announcements have gone wrong (and barely ever one where they've been dead), and I've been commuting daily on the Vic for the last two years. I agree this can vary - I've heard things go wrong on the District, and the one on the Picc is pretty much never in service. Plus people actually like to be able to look out of the windows, at least on the surface sections that make up over 50% of the LU network. Not on the Vic it doesn't - unless people are stowing away on out-of-service trains to Northumberland Park... In which case, the ahem driver would be in deep trouble if a passenger could see out of the window. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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