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London Overground
TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Rather than opting for the brown "Rail" roundel, the branding scheme is an orange (!) "Overground" scheme - not to be confused with South London's "Overground Network" branding. Trains and signs will have an orange trim, there will be an Overground roundel almost identical to the Underground one but with an orange circle (and obviously the different word). The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf That map throws up a few extra bits of information by itself, such as: - Dalston Junction is considered an interchange with Kingsland (so let's hope they put some good signs up along Kingsland High Street) - No plans yet for stations on Phase 2 at either Brixton or Loughborough Junction (perhaps unsurprising given the cost) - Carpenders Park, Bushey, Watford High St and Watford Junction look like they'll be moved into Zone A - Shepherd's Bush H&C becomes Shepherd's Bush Market, White City H&C will be Wood Lane, and won't be an advertised interchange with the Central line (although that might just be an oversight) Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf That map throws up a few extra bits of information by itself, such as: - Dalston Junction is considered an interchange with Kingsland (so let's hope they put some good signs up along Kingsland High Street) - No plans yet for stations on Phase 2 at either Brixton or Loughborough Junction (perhaps unsurprising given the cost) - Carpenders Park, Bushey, Watford High St and Watford Junction look like they'll be moved into Zone A - Shepherd's Bush H&C becomes Shepherd's Bush Market, White City H&C will be Wood Lane, and won't be an advertised interchange with the Central line (although that might just be an oversight) Also: * no plans to move Hampstead Heath or Willesden into Zone 2 (although this may be oversight: I'm sure the former was part of TfL's original commitment on taking over NLR). * no plans to transfer the DC lines to LUL or run the Queens Park to Stratford service. * lifts appearing at Euston Square, Paddington (District), Highbury & Islington, Tottenham Hale, Waterloo (Northern) and Vauxhall. I guess in Highbury they're going to reanimate the old Tube station and use its lift shafts - although that hardly provides much of an interchange with the Overground platforms. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
London Overground
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Rather than opting for the brown "Rail" roundel, the branding scheme is an orange (!) "Overground" scheme - not to be confused with South London's "Overground Network" branding. Trains and signs will have an orange trim, there will be an Overground roundel almost identical to the Underground one but with an orange circle (and obviously the different word). The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf This isn't where you're going with the topic, but I wonder why the FCC line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate isn't included. jim |
London Overground
Jim wrote:
Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf This isn't where you're going with the topic, but I wonder why the FCC line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate isn't included. I think TfL is keen to make the distinction between "London Overground" - ie the lines that TfL controls and that it will franchise to London Underground standards of frequency, staffing, etc under a common Underground-style brand - and National Rail in general. Side note - a couple of interesting pics on the TfL press centre, including mock-ups of the London Overground Electrostars: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...ry/gallery.asp -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
London Overground
John B wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf That map throws up a few extra bits of information by itself, such as: - Dalston Junction is considered an interchange with Kingsland (so let's hope they put some good signs up along Kingsland High Street) - No plans yet for stations on Phase 2 at either Brixton or Loughborough Junction (perhaps unsurprising given the cost) - Carpenders Park, Bushey, Watford High St and Watford Junction look like they'll be moved into Zone A - Shepherd's Bush H&C becomes Shepherd's Bush Market, White City H&C will be Wood Lane, and won't be an advertised interchange with the Central line (although that might just be an oversight) Also: * no plans to move Hampstead Heath or Willesden into Zone 2 (although this may be oversight: I'm sure the former was part of TfL's original commitment on taking over NLR). * no plans to transfer the DC lines to LUL or run the Queens Park to Stratford service. I had the impression that the DC / Bakerloo plan was a longer-term thing than 2010, but I can't check on my own site because it's broken at the moment! As for QP to Stratford, who knows - the variety of different service patterns appearing from TfL and Network Rail is mind-boggling. Perhaps the QP service is something that would appear from 2011 when the second phase of NLR operations is supposed to come into play (says TfL according to Network Rail...) - which might coincide with the DC handover plan so that South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road retain a service. * lifts appearing at Euston Square, Paddington (District), Highbury & Islington, Tottenham Hale, Waterloo (Northern) and Vauxhall. I guess in Highbury they're going to reanimate the old Tube station and use its lift shafts - although that hardly provides much of an interchange with the Overground platforms. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...d-exterior.jpg I take it that this is just an illustration of the livery style on a prexisting graphic- details like third rail shoes, 25kv pantograph 9 or space for one - inter unit connections and end doors being ommitted. |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote:
Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf The Heathrow Terminal 5 bit looks really weird too. Tim |
London Overground
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Rather than opting for the brown "Rail" roundel, the branding scheme is an orange (!) "Overground" scheme - not to be confused with South London's "Overground Network" branding. Trains and signs will have an orange trim, there will be an Overground roundel almost identical to the Underground one but with an orange circle (and obviously the different word). The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf That map throws up a few extra bits of information by itself, such as: - Dalston Junction is considered an interchange with Kingsland (so let's hope they put some good signs up along Kingsland High Street) - No plans yet for stations on Phase 2 at either Brixton or Loughborough Junction (perhaps unsurprising given the cost) - Carpenders Park, Bushey, Watford High St and Watford Junction look like they'll be moved into Zone A - Shepherd's Bush H&C becomes Shepherd's Bush Market, White City H&C will be Wood Lane, and won't be an advertised interchange with the Central line (although that might just be an oversight) Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London No Sign of Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction or Croxley Link. WATFORD RAIL USERS GROUP AN OPEN MEETING IS TO BE HELD ON MONDAY 11th SEPTEMBER 2006 7pm at WATFORD TOWN HALL, RICKMANSWORTH ROAD, WATFORD Entry to the Town Hall is via the Customers Service Centre entrance next to the Hempstead Road car park. Representatives from your local Train Operators will be in attendance. There will also be a presentation from Transport for London on their proposed plans to bring "BAKERLOO LINE TRAINS TO WATFORD JUNCTION" ALL WELCOME |
London Overground
On 5 Sep 2006 08:57:44 -0700, "John B" wrote:
* lifts appearing at Euston Square, Paddington (District), Highbury & Islington, Tottenham Hale, Waterloo (Northern) and Vauxhall. Tottenham Hale is already step free - the lift has been in service for years. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
London Overground
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). And hooray for an outbreak of common sense. I am very pleased that the "round the corner" link is to be part of the first phase rather than simply being a possibility that might happen "sometime never". [1] [1] excuse the cynicism but I think delivery of phase 2 of the ELLX is significantly at risk due to both monetary and political pressures. I hope it will happen but I wouldn't hold my breath. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
London Overground
Paul Corfield wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: Nice to see the clever integration of the blue disabled access symbol on to the map. Becks foresighted modular flexibility triumphs again. |
London Overground
"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com... Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...d-exterior.jpg I take it that this is just an illustration of the livery style on a prexisting graphic- details like third rail shoes, 25kv pantograph 9 or space for one - inter unit connections and end doors being ommitted. Just an illustration I imagine - though the units will be Class 376-derived, so they'll look close to that. |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: Rather than opting for the brown "Rail" roundel, the branding scheme is an orange (!) "Overground" scheme - not to be confused with South London's "Overground Network" branding. Trains and signs will have an orange trim, there will be an Overground roundel almost identical to the Underground one but with an orange circle (and obviously the different word). Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. But why on earth have they lumped all the Overground lines together as if they were one line. The Underground lines being different colours and names makes it pretty clear where trains are going. But the Overground lines as shown make it appear that you could, for example, catch a train direct from West Croydon to Richmond or Clapham Junction via Gospel Oak, should you want to. At the very least, the East London Line Extension should run in to Highbury parallel to the line from Stratford, and terminate there. In the same way as the Metropolitan does at Aldgate or the District at Edgware Road. Peter |
London Overground
But why on earth have they lumped all the Overground lines together as
if they were one line. The Underground lines being different colours and names makes it pretty clear where trains are going. But the Overground lines as shown make it appear that you could, for example, catch a train direct from West Croydon to Richmond or Clapham Junction via Gospel Oak, should you want to. At the very least, the East London Line Extension should run in to Highbury parallel to the line from Stratford, and terminate there. In the same way as the Metropolitan does at Aldgate or the District at Edgware Road. You could say the same for the DLR. |
London Overground
Peter Heather wrote:
But why on earth have they lumped all the Overground lines together as if they were one line. The Underground lines being different colours and names makes it pretty clear where trains are going. But the Overground lines as shown make it appear that you could, for example, catch a train direct from West Croydon to Richmond or Clapham Junction via Gospel Oak, should you want to. This assumes that this is not the plan. I'm not sure that the penny has dropped that an orbital railway is a good idea, but orbital train services are not. There is no point running trains from Richmond to West Croydon via Gospel Oak. Instead, trains should come in from outside, go round for a bit, then go outwards again. Probably a third of the way round is about right, in overlapping sections. Thus Richmond to Stratford overlaps Watford to New Cross and Clapham Junction to Barking - and the latter should possibly extend beyond CJ - e.g. to Hampton Court. This maximises journeys possible with one change. Colin McKenzie -- On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking a mile than cycling it. So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets? |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_tubemap.pdf That map throws up a few extra bits of information by itself, such as: [snip] .... also Roding Valley still has the restricted service dagger (no service Woodford - Hainault after 2000 hours), but Chigwell and Grange Hill have lost theirs. Do I remember reading somewhere recently that this part of the Central line will open until normal close of service from some time soon, or is this just an oversight on the cartographer's part? One thing that slightly surprised me was that no wheelchair access is planned (according to the map) for most of the pre-existing stations to be served by the new ELL/ELR. I guess these inherit their inaccesbility ("grandfather rights?") from the fact they currently have train services, even if those services might be suspended for a time and then significantly change on resumption. I imagine Wapping in particular would pose a huge (financial and/or engineering) problem. It seems a bit mean not to at least make West Croydon fully accessible though, which surely wouldn't be a very difficult job? |
London Overground
On 5 Sep 2006 14:12:40 -0700, "Peter Heather"
wrote: Dave Arquati wrote: Going back to the branding, all "Overground" lines will appear on the Tube map, which TfL has released a sample of for 2010. Interestingly, the line style (white centre with orange edges) looks much like the old style used to show selected British Rail lines (like Thameslink and the NLL) about fifteen years ago. But why on earth have they lumped all the Overground lines together as if they were one line. The Underground lines being different colours and names makes it pretty clear where trains are going. But the Overground lines as shown make it appear that you could, for example, catch a train direct from West Croydon to Richmond or Clapham Junction via Gospel Oak, should you want to. At the very least, the East London Line Extension should run in to Highbury parallel to the line from Stratford, and terminate there. In the same way as the Metropolitan does at Aldgate or the District at Edgware Road. As service patterns seem to be open to a lot of debate there is no point showing separate services at this point. The point of the map is to simply make the routes stand out relative to the rest of the lines. As has already been said the DLR is shown as one network on the main map. this is probably just as well because the differing peak / off peak services would make the map overly fussy and out of scale. I would personally quite like to see separate lines for the Overground but that would depend on how complex the eventual service pattern is. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
London Overground
Colin McKenzie wrote:
Peter Heather wrote: But why on earth have they lumped all the Overground lines together as if they were one line. The Underground lines being different colours and names makes it pretty clear where trains are going. But the Overground lines as shown make it appear that you could, for example, catch a train direct from West Croydon to Richmond or Clapham Junction via Gospel Oak, should you want to. This assumes that this is not the plan. I'm not sure that the penny has dropped that an orbital railway is a good idea, but orbital train services are not. There is no point running trains from Richmond to West Croydon via Gospel Oak. Instead, trains should come in from outside, go round for a bit, then go outwards again. Probably a third of the way round is about right, in overlapping sections. Thus Richmond to Stratford overlaps Watford to New Cross and Clapham Junction to Barking - and the latter should possibly extend beyond CJ - e.g. to Hampton Court. This maximises journeys possible with one change. ....but also maximises performance pollution (unfortunately). -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
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London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote:
Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are already step free. |
London Overground
Paul Corfield wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). And hooray for an outbreak of common sense. I am very pleased that the "round the corner" link is to be part of the first phase rather than simply being a possibility that might happen "sometime never". [1] [1] excuse the cynicism but I think delivery of phase 2 of the ELLX is significantly at risk due to both monetary and political pressures. I hope it will happen but I wouldn't hold my breath. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! Listening to some commentary on the radio last night it was stated that running trains from Dalston Junc to Highbury is going to cost £400M. Bearing in mind that all that needs to be done on the face of it is reinstate a few hundred yards of track what is going to cost half a Wembley Stadium of half a Dome. Kevin |
London Overground
John Rowland wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are already step free. Saying that, so is Olympia - there's no step-free interchange between southbound WLL and other trains, but there is step-free access from all platforms to the street (the criterion used in the map). I also realised that "Shepherd's Bush Market" needs some works to become step-free which I didn't realise were planned. Moving back to the map in general, the difficulty with step-free information (which has been said on here many times before) is that it's just one possible piece of information out of many about a station that might be useful to people with difficulty moving around. Green Park has step-free interchange between lines, but if I were taking someone with walking difficulties on the Tube, I'd avoid it like the plague. I wonder whether a "one-size-fits-all" approach is a bit out-of-date. What might be useful is a dynamically-generated Tube map that users could create online, which would plot details relevant to them. For example, if you had trouble walking longer distances but could manage a few steps, then you could enter those attributes into a page and have it generate a Tube map showing which stations are the most attractive interchanges and which are the least attractive. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Kev wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington, in order to make a connection with the North London Railway"). And hooray for an outbreak of common sense. I am very pleased that the "round the corner" link is to be part of the first phase rather than simply being a possibility that might happen "sometime never". [1] [1] excuse the cynicism but I think delivery of phase 2 of the ELLX is significantly at risk due to both monetary and political pressures. I hope it will happen but I wouldn't hold my breath. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! Listening to some commentary on the radio last night it was stated that running trains from Dalston Junc to Highbury is going to cost £400M. Bearing in mind that all that needs to be done on the face of it is reinstate a few hundred yards of track what is going to cost half a Wembley Stadium of half a Dome. Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling. Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands? -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote:
Moving back to the map in general, the difficulty with step-free information (which has been said on here many times before) is that it's just one possible piece of information out of many about a station that might be useful to people with difficulty moving around. Green Park has step-free interchange between lines, but if I were taking someone with walking difficulties on the Tube, I'd avoid it like the plague. Only Picc and Jub, isn't it? Or are there some Victoria Line lifts that I've missed...?Anyway, agreed. Given that both the Victoria and Jubilee part 1 were built with lots of easy interchanges at other stations, and that the area under Green Park wasn't exactly a King's Cross-style place of massive complexity, why did they make everything so far away and hard to get between? -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
London Overground
On 5 Sep 2006 08:57:44 -0700, "John B" wrote:
* lifts appearing at Euston Square, Paddington (District), Highbury & Islington, Tottenham Hale, Waterloo (Northern) and Vauxhall. and Mile End. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling. Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands? The figure quoted could have been rubbish of course. Kevin |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Good news: More frequent service. Good news: Will allow pre-pay Oyster. Potentially good news: Improvement of station facilities? Potentially good news: Metros? Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse seating, i.e. front-backward facing). Bad news: No plans for a Northern Line interchange around Hampstead. (It badly needs one). Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to take our bikes onto that line? Next I'd like to see more frequent trains on Capital-Connect and to allow pre-pay Oyster on that line, but no change in the trains themselves please. |
London Overground
Kev wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling. Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands? The figure quoted could have been rubbish of course. I think for any major public project, cost quotes can vary so wildly between reports to be as good as useless. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Earl Purple wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to take our bikes onto that line? I would expect the answer will be "yes but only off-peak", given that TfL allow bikes on the Circle, District, Met, EL and H+C lines at all times except 07.30 - 09.30 and 16.00 - 19.00, Monday to Friday. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/get...d/bicycles.asp How does that compare with the current rules for taking bikes on the NLL? PaulO |
London Overground
Earl Purple wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm Good news: More frequent service. Good news: Will allow pre-pay Oyster. Potentially good news: Improvement of station facilities? Potentially good news: Metros? Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse seating, i.e. front-backward facing). The reason for longitudinal seating is to provide more space for standing passengers. Bad news: No plans for a Northern Line interchange around Hampstead. (It badly needs one). An interchange between the NLL and Northern line at Hampstead would be so incredibly expensive it would be completely unfeasible - both the NLL and Northern line are in deep tunnel at quite differing levels, and the construction of an interchange station would therefore require extremely difficult and complex tunnelling. The demand (which would chiefly be to and from just six stations north of Hampstead) is very unlikely to justify such costs. The best hope for a Northern line interchange is Primrose Hill; if/when Queen's Park to Stratford services start running, then they will pass through disused platforms about 200m from Chalk Farm station. This would still provide for flows to/from stations east of Camden, and would cost a fraction of the price (especially if the old station structures, which seem to be in situ, can be revived). Other more-possible-than-Hampstead possibilities are Tufnell Park, and even Camden Town to Camden Road (an additional exit from the northern ends of the platforms at Camden Town to a second ticket office closer to Camden Road was floated as a potential congestion-relief measure). Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to take our bikes onto that line? Next I'd like to see more frequent trains on Capital-Connect and to allow pre-pay Oyster on that line, but no change in the trains themselves please. Prepay will come within a few years but TfL are unlikely to gain control so frequency is probably all down to Network Rail (who would need to provide infrastructure for it). I'm pretty sure cycles will still be permitted outside the peak hours, as is standard practice on all above-ground and subsurface sections of the Underground. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote:
Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse seating, i.e. front-backward facing). The reason for longitudinal seating is to provide more space for standing passengers. You mean mobile cattle trucks? I wouldn't want to stand for a long time on most of the journeys I make on that line. |
London Overground
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse seating, i.e. front-backward facing). The reason for longitudinal seating is to provide more space for standing passengers. You mean mobile cattle trucks? I wouldn't want to stand for a long time on most of the journeys I make on that line. Don't know what time of day you travel, but I /already/ have to stand for a long time on most if the journeys I make on that line. And standing would be a lot easier in Tube-style stock rather than the stupidly narrow gangways of the 313s... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: The reason for longitudinal seating is to provide more space for standing passengers. If they make use of it, but I tend to find that passengers only stand one abreadth regardless of the seating layout. Meanwhile, when you are sitting, you don't have the inconvenience of having people stand right over you. In addition, transverse seating provides more seating space. An interchange between the NLL and Northern line at Hampstead would be so incredibly expensive it would be completely unfeasible - both the NLL and Northern line are in deep tunnel at quite differing levels, and the construction of an interchange station would therefore require extremely difficult and complex tunnelling. The demand (which would chiefly be to and from just six stations north of Hampstead) is very unlikely to justify such costs. Maybe. Most of those stations are moderately close to either the "Thameslink" (now capital connect) or the Jubilee and can make the change at West Hampstead for the stations west of Hampstead, while for the stations eastward you make the Camden Town / Camden Road interchange (which is about 4 minutes because I've made it). It does mean if you wish to go West you are back-tracking on yourself, i.e. you go from Hampstead towards Camden Town then back towards Hampstead again. Or you make a longer walk. There is the option of using buses to make part of the link. The best hope for a Northern line interchange is Primrose Hill; if/when Queen's Park to Stratford services start running, then they will pass through disused platforms about 200m from Chalk Farm station. This would still provide for flows to/from stations east of Camden, and would cost a fraction of the price (especially if the old station structures, which seem to be in situ, can be revived). Other more-possible-than-Hampstead possibilities are Tufnell Park, and even Camden Town to Camden Road (an additional exit from the northern ends of the platforms at Camden Town to a second ticket office closer to Camden Road was floated as a potential congestion-relief measure). Archway and Upper Holloway are already not that far apart. I'm pretty sure cycles will still be permitted outside the peak hours, as is standard practice on all above-ground and subsurface sections of the Underground. At the moment on Silverlink they're allowed at any time (as far as I'm aware) which is useful for commuting to work if you want to cycle at either end (often quite necessary) but don't wish to cycle the whole journey (possibly too long). Now if they really want to promote bike use and they're going to make the trains more frequent how about either: 1. A proper cycle area on the train (with no seats at all) and / or 2. Allow cycles on alternate trains with such a facility. |
London Overground
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 03:52:42 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Dave Arquati wrote: Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are already step free. They are? Upper Holloway is the only one I can think of. Barking - I think this has lifts Woodgrange Park - don't know Wanstead Park - don't know Leytonstone High Road - no Leyton Midland Rd - no Walthamstow Queens Rd - no Blackhorse Road - no South Tottenham - I think that has ramps Harringay Green Lanes - no Crouch Hill - don't know Gospel Oak - no way! I'm very happy to be corrected but I would not call the Goblin step free. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
London Overground
In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote: Walthamstow Queens Rd - no This station has ramps. Blackhorse Road - no And this is probably the most important interchange on the line (probably more important than the termini)! South Tottenham - I think that has ramps It does. Harringay Green Lanes - no I /think/ this has ramps, too. Crouch Hill - don't know I don't think there are ramps here. Gospel Oak - no way! I'm very happy to be corrected but I would not call the Goblin step free. No, me neither. -- I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood. |
London Overground
Paul Corfield wrote:
They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are already step free. They are? Upper Holloway is the only one I can think of. There's one that has ramps and lifts - I don't think it's Upper Holloway though. Woodgrange Park - don't know No. Wanstead Park - don't know No. |
London Overground
On 5 Sep 2006 11:42:20 -0700, Bob wrote:
Nice to see the clever integration of the blue disabled access symbol on to the map. Becks foresighted modular flexibility triumphs again. Except that the use of the disabled symbol actually removes one of Beck's original innovations and makes the map provide less information than it used to (discounting the obvious extra information about step-free access!). Until recently you could immediately see which stations were interchanges and which weren't: a station represented by a white circle with black outline was an interchange, whereas as a station represented only with a small 'tick-mark' was not. Now, this still applies to stations without step-free access, but step-free stations of both types are given the same blue circle with the disabled icon in it. I'm not sure what Beck would have made of it, although having read about his obsessive nature I have little doubt he would have spent many sleepless nights testing out different ways around the problem, much to his wife's irritation! Paul |
London Overground
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 00:26:33 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: wrote: It seems a bit mean not to at least make West Croydon fully accessible though, which surely wouldn't be a very difficult job? Not sure - there isn't much in the way of direct vertical points between the ticket hall and the platforms in the current layout. The area where the steps from Platforms 1-3 meet the bridge from Platform 4 and the entrance to the ticket hall has always been a nightmare - pre barriers the ticket inspectors would stand in the small entry portal and any problem ticket could cause chaos as no-one could get round. A shaft that come down onto the old Platform 2, combined with some levelling of platform 1/3, would still have the problem of the level of the bridge. And the ramp down to Platform 4 is possibly too steep, even if you could level off everything else. While they were at it, they could open a new entrance between platform 4 and the bus station, remotely monitored by CCTV (like at St Albans City). Oink, flutter. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London Overground
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 19:26:31 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 03:52:42 +0100, "John Rowland" wrote: Dave Arquati wrote: Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't* step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one if you don't use steps). They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are already step free. They are? Upper Holloway is the only one I can think of. Barking - I think this has lifts Correct Woodgrange Park - don't know Steps only Wanstead Park - don't know Steps only Walthamstow Queens Rd - no Ramps South Tottenham - I think that has ramps I'm fairly sure it is steps only. Harringay Green Lanes - no Ramps. I'm very happy to be corrected but I would not call the Goblin step free. |
London Overground
Dave Arquati wrote: TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway concession: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm The Brixton stop, as a future upgrade, strikes me as vital: it's a key interchange with buses and the Victoria line, and a major centre in itself. It may be a lot of money but - unlike something like Loughborough Junction - I think it'd be worth spending. There are a couple of other stops I'd be keen to see as well (York Road, North Pole/North Acton) that are less important and very possibly not worth the money. Something that could be done relatively cheaply, though, would be to improve signage so that other existing stations could act as on street interchanges - Walthamstow, Hackney, Forest Gate/Wanstead Park and Swiss Cottage/South Hampsted are all obvious examples that it might be worth showing on the map. Also, as a longer term idea, it strikes me that the idea some locals have proposed for a Clapham Junction-South East London route could be a good addition to the network. A route that ran Clapham Junction-Peckham Rye-Lewisham-Woolwich-Abbey Wood would provide a link from Crossrail and City Airport to south London. Be even better if they built those extra platforms at Brockley. Sorry, just babbling, really. JE |
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