Fares changes for 2007
 

"Timothy Baldwin" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Frimberley
wrote:

On 12 Sep 2006 09:29:06 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

??? No they're not. Paris, Stockholm, Budapest, New York, Sydney,
Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok- the metro systems in these and many
many other cities - in fact I'd go so far as to say most cities of the
world - have barriers.

Brussels and Berlin don't have barriers.

I don't think that any German system does.

And Oslo and Copenhagen don't either, I don't think that Helsinki
did, but Stockholm does.

tim

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:05:39 +0100, "tim\(yet another new home\)"
wrote:


"Timothy Baldwin" wrote in message
...

Brussels and Berlin don't have barriers.

I don't think that any German system does.

Nope, too honest!

And Oslo and Copenhagen don't either, I don't think that Helsinki
did, but Stockholm does.

Helsinki doesn't.

Err, Rennes doesn't either. So unlike the metropolis (Paris) which can
have barriers inside barriers - RATP to RER.
--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article .com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Visa Delta is a nicer system as such a debit card can be processed
by the same mechanism as a credit card, so theoretically should be more
widely accepted, though some of Western Europe is an issue.

Except that many don't have PINs issued (for lack of sufficient credit,
e.g. no overdraft facility. They cannot be used in railway ticket
machines since February IME.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

tim(yet another new home) wrote:

And how will Oyster do network card (or any other railcard)
discounts.

I would expect that it won't. What we're most likely to see, I
reckon, is a German-style joint tariff in which TfL sets fares and
"national rail" type offers won't be valid.

Why? I get Network Card discounts on tickets from Cambridge that include
Underground travel, day Travelcards and tickets to Underground zones.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

Neil Williams wrote:

Kev wrote:

Yes, great if you have Oyster. Why don't they just put signs up at
Heathrow and on the boundary of London saying **** off if you are a low
life visitor we don't want you in London.

Quite.

If Ken wants to implement a tourist tax, that's what he should do.
Such a thing would be added to hotel bills and fully transparent, just
like it is here in the Hague where I'm staying at the moment (it's
about EUR 2 a night).

Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)
but it isn't possible to buy a train ticket from, eg, Bedford to
Southampton and do the London bit on Oyster. Maybe TOCs should offer a
train ticket that includes travel to a London Terminal and then from
another, allowing the Passenger to pay the cheaper cross London transfer

Fares changes for 2007
 

On 23 Sep 2006 17:18:59 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:

Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)
but it isn't possible to buy a train ticket from, eg, Bedford to
Southampton and do the London bit on Oyster.

Not based on the single fares; Bedford to London Terminals is £15.90;
London Terminals to Southampton is £25.30; Bedford to Southampton is
£29.30.

Maybe, under the Rail Settlement Plan, the TOC that sells the ticket
gives LUL £3; but if the amount transferred was £1.50, do you really
think your Bedford-Southampton ticket would cost £1.50 less?

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Fares changes for 2007
 

James Farrar wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 17:18:59 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:

Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)
but it isn't possible to buy a train ticket from, eg, Bedford to
Southampton and do the London bit on Oyster.

Not based on the single fares; Bedford to London Terminals is £15.90;
London Terminals to Southampton is £25.30; Bedford to Southampton is
£29.30.

Maybe, under the Rail Settlement Plan, the TOC that sells the ticket
gives LUL £3; but if the amount transferred was £1.50, do you really
think your Bedford-Southampton ticket would cost £1.50 less?

Sorry, bad example... A, less long distance, better example is Rugby
to Clapham Junction. Going via Ken Olympia to Clapham Junction is a
lot cheaper than going by tube from Euston to Vauxhall then train. The
price difference wasn't so great four years ago

Fares changes for 2007
 

"Chris!" wrote in message
oups.com...



Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)

I are fairly sure that the rule is, a cross london journey has the
underground part added for free. But a Zone 1 ticket does have the
cash fare added. If your Z1 destination is another rail station it
is usually cheaper to buy a ticket to the first stop from that station.

tim

Fares changes for 2007
 

On 23 Sep 2006 18:04:36 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:


James Farrar wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 17:18:59 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:

Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)
but it isn't possible to buy a train ticket from, eg, Bedford to
Southampton and do the London bit on Oyster.

Not based on the single fares; Bedford to London Terminals is £15.90;
London Terminals to Southampton is £25.30; Bedford to Southampton is
£29.30.

Maybe, under the Rail Settlement Plan, the TOC that sells the ticket
gives LUL £3; but if the amount transferred was £1.50, do you really
think your Bedford-Southampton ticket would cost £1.50 less?

Sorry, bad example... A, less long distance, better example is Rugby
to Clapham Junction. Going via Ken Olympia to Clapham Junction is a
lot cheaper than going by tube from Euston to Vauxhall then train. The
price difference wasn't so great four years ago

Apparently Rugby to Kenny O costs the same as Rugby to Clapham
Junction.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:49:27 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

On 23 Sep 2006 18:04:36 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:


James Farrar wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 17:18:59 -0700, "Chris!" wrote:

Ahh but a tourist tax wouldn't make money out of people travelling from
North of London to South of London without stopping in London. IIRC a
cross london train ticket has the cash single fare added to it (ie £4)
but it isn't possible to buy a train ticket from, eg, Bedford to
Southampton and do the London bit on Oyster.

Not based on the single fares; Bedford to London Terminals is £15.90;
London Terminals to Southampton is £25.30; Bedford to Southampton is
£29.30.

Maybe, under the Rail Settlement Plan, the TOC that sells the ticket
gives LUL £3; but if the amount transferred was £1.50, do you really
think your Bedford-Southampton ticket would cost £1.50 less?

Sorry, bad example... A, less long distance, better example is Rugby
to Clapham Junction. Going via Ken Olympia to Clapham Junction is a
lot cheaper than going by tube from Euston to Vauxhall then train. The
price difference wasn't so great four years ago

Apparently Rugby to Kenny O costs the same as Rugby to Clapham
Junction.

Oh, hang on, I mis-read that... Rugby to Euston costs *more* than
Rugby to Clapham Junction (not London).

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:32 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

And how will Oyster do network card (or any other railcard)
discounts.

I would expect that it won't. What we're most likely to see, I
reckon, is a German-style joint tariff in which TfL sets fares and
"national rail" type offers won't be valid.

Why? I get Network Card discounts on tickets from Cambridge that include
Underground travel, day Travelcards and tickets to Underground zones.

You only get the Railcard discounts on the NR part of the fare, not
the Tube part. (Though through fares are now calculated in a
complicated and obscure way, and I'm not sure they're even the sum of
NR and Tube parts any more.)

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:32 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

And how will Oyster do network card (or any other railcard)
discounts.

I would expect that it won't. What we're most likely to see, I
reckon, is a German-style joint tariff in which TfL sets fares
and "national rail" type offers won't be valid.

Why? I get Network Card discounts on tickets from Cambridge that
include Underground travel, day Travelcards and tickets to
Underground zones.

You only get the Railcard discounts on the NR part of the fare, not
the Tube part. (Though through fares are now calculated in a
complicated and obscure way, and I'm not sure they're even the sum
of NR and Tube parts any more.)

Not so. The Day travelcard fare gets 34% off just like the London
Terminals Cheap Day Return does.

Examples:
Cambridge-London Terminals CDR: 17.60, with Network card: 11.60. 66% of
17.60=11.62.
Cambridge Day Travelcard: 22.50 with Network card: 14.85. 66% of
22.50=14.85.

QED.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 00:02 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Why? I get Network Card discounts on tickets from Cambridge that
include Underground travel, day Travelcards and tickets to
Underground zones.

You only get the Railcard discounts on the NR part of the fare, not
the Tube part. (Though through fares are now calculated in a
complicated and obscure way, and I'm not sure they're even the sum
of NR and Tube parts any more.)

Not so. The Day travelcard fare gets 34% off just like the London
Terminals Cheap Day Return does.

Examples:
Cambridge-London Terminals CDR: 17.60, with Network card: 11.60. 66% of
17.60=11.62.
Cambridge Day Travelcard: 22.50 with Network card: 14.85. 66% of
22.50=14.85.

What about through fares to Underground zones? For example, Cambridge
to Morden?

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 00:02 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Why? I get Network Card discounts on tickets from Cambridge
that include Underground travel, day Travelcards and tickets to
Underground zones.

You only get the Railcard discounts on the NR part of the fare,
not the Tube part. (Though through fares are now calculated in a
complicated and obscure way, and I'm not sure they're even the
sum of NR and Tube parts any more.)

Not so. The Day travelcard fare gets 34% off just like the London
Terminals Cheap Day Return does.

Examples:
Cambridge-London Terminals CDR: 17.60, with Network card: 11.60.
66% of 17.60=11.62.
Cambridge Day Travelcard: 22.50 with Network card: 14.85. 66% of
22.50=14.85.

What about through fares to Underground zones? For example,
Cambridge to Morden?

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return: 29.00,
with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return: 29.00,
with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

This is true - but it's an odd anachronism, almost, that applies only
to TfL but not any other PTE or similar[1].

[1] Actually, that's not quite true. Railcard discounts are available
on through coach/rail fares involving the Stagecoach X5 and VT99 rail
links and probably others. The discount is on the complete fare, not
the train fare alone!

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return:
29.00, with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

This is true - but it's an odd anachronism, almost, that applies
only to TfL but not any other PTE or similar[1].

How many PTEs have an equivalent of the Network Card? I suppose YP or
Senior Railcard discounts are similar though in the latter case many
PTEs have higher discounts.

[1] Actually, that's not quite true. Railcard discounts are
available on through coach/rail fares involving the Stagecoach X5 and
VT99 rail links and probably others. The discount is on the complete
fare, not the train fare alone!

Pah! The X5 is an evil attempt by Vermin through their ownership of
thetrainline to abstract traffic from though services operated by
Central Trains.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:50 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

What about through fares to Underground zones? For example,
Cambridge to Morden?

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return: 29.00,
with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

Interesting. I thought that at least prior to the 2006 fares revision,
you didn't get the Railcard discount on the U12 part of the fare. (The
through fare would have been calculated as the sum of a Cambridge to
Finsbury Park Saver Return plus two Z12 Tube fares. Now, it's done
differently, though I'm not sure how.)

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

How many PTEs have an equivalent of the Network Card? I suppose YP or
Senior Railcard discounts are similar though in the latter case many
PTEs have higher discounts.

None that I can think of have a "loyalty card", though fares are often
highly-subsidised anyway.

Pah! The X5 is an evil attempt by Vermin through their ownership of
thetrainline to abstract traffic from though services operated by
Central Trains.

Nonsense. It's a commercially-operated express bus service that fills
in a very useful gap in the rail service. Where does it meet CT,
anyway? I can't think of anywhere it competes with them.

It does abstract from Bedford-Bletchley, but that's because that's not
a covenient service to many. When (I believe it's now a when) the
Bedford-Bletchley gets extended to MK Central that might well change.

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article .com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

How many PTEs have an equivalent of the Network Card? I suppose
YP or Senior Railcard discounts are similar though in the latter case
many PTEs have higher discounts.

None that I can think of have a "loyalty card", though fares are
often highly-subsidised anyway.

I was thinking of pensioners.

Pah! The X5 is an evil attempt by Vermin through their ownership
of thetrainline to abstract traffic from though services operated by
Central Trains.

Nonsense. It's a commercially-operated express bus service that
fills in a very useful gap in the rail service. Where does it meet CT,
anyway? I can't think of anywhere it competes with them.

It does abstract from Bedford-Bletchley, but that's because that's
not a covenient service to many. When (I believe it's now a when) the
Bedford-Bletchley gets extended to MK Central that might well
change.

It attempts to abstract from Cambridge-Birmingham, despite Central
running through trains that take less time. Try looking up
Cambridge-Birmingham on the NRE web site some time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:50 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

What about through fares to Underground zones? For example,
Cambridge to Morden?

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return:
29.00, with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

Interesting. I thought that at least prior to the 2006 fares
revision, you didn't get the Railcard discount on the U12 part of the
fare. (The through fare would have been calculated as the sum of a
Cambridge to Finsbury Park Saver Return plus two Z12 Tube fares. Now,
it's done differently, though I'm not sure how.)

Even though most Cambridge-London services don't stop at Finsbury Park?

I'd never come across any Network Card discount that wasn't a straight
34% until 'one's special Cambridge-London fares.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It attempts to abstract from Cambridge-Birmingham, despite Central
running through trains that take less time. Try looking up
Cambridge-Birmingham on the NRE web site some time.

A quick query showed a few routes. None of them included the X5.
Putting in via Milton Keynes Central gave a load more - again not
including the X5.

The journey planner shows the quickest connection at any given time,
AIUI, so long as it is a ticketable permitted route (plus a few
exceptions to this).

Are you sure there wasn't engineering work on the day you tried the
query?

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article .com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It attempts to abstract from Cambridge-Birmingham, despite Central
running through trains that take less time. Try looking up
Cambridge-Birmingham on the NRE web site some time.

A quick query showed a few routes. None of them included the X5.
Putting in via Milton Keynes Central gave a load more - again not
including the X5.

The journey planner shows the quickest connection at any given time,
AIUI, so long as it is a ticketable permitted route (plus a few
exceptions to this).

Are you sure there wasn't engineering work on the day you tried the
query?

No, but recent WCML timetable changes did mess up the connections so it
may have been at a particular time when they were by chance better.
Before the timetable changes they cropped up every time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

No, but recent WCML timetable changes did mess up the connections so it
may have been at a particular time when they were by chance better.
Before the timetable changes they cropped up every time.

So, not abstracting revenue, then, but offering the quickest multimodal
public transport journey for requirements. Sounds good to me.

(The X5 is very useful for journeys from MK to/from fGW's general area,
both in terms of price and time, incidentally).

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article .com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

No, but recent WCML timetable changes did mess up the connections
so it may have been at a particular time when they were by chance
better. Before the timetable changes they cropped up every time.

So, not abstracting revenue, then, but offering the quickest
multimodal public transport journey for requirements. Sounds good to
me.

(The X5 is very useful for journeys from MK to/from fGW's general
area, both in terms of price and time, incidentally).

Except that it was slower. And no use for the journey I was looking up
as coaches don't accept unaccompanied under-16s.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Except that it was slower. And no use for the journey I was looking up
as coaches don't accept unaccompanied under-16s.

It's more of an express bus service, so it probably does. I'm fairly
sure I've seen unaccompanied children who look well under 16 travelling
on it, indeed.

Are you sure there were not engineering works at the time you checked?

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Except that it was slower. And no use for the journey I was
looking up as coaches don't accept unaccompanied under-16s.

It's more of an express bus service, so it probably does. I'm
fairly sure I've seen unaccompanied children who look well under 16
travelling on it, indeed.

It's got some local bus service attributes (it provides the main
Cambridge-St Neots bus service these days) but is treated as a coach
service at our end.

Are you sure there were not engineering works at the time you
checked?

Pretty sure, yes. Clearly now it just tries to send you via London, even
though it is quicker and almost as frequent to use Central.

Thetrainline.com is still doing it now. Try a return from Birmingham to
Cambridge on 2 October around 16:30:

Return journey: Monday 2 October 2006
Station Arr Dep Travel by Service Provider
BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET 16:30 Train VIRGIN TRAINS
MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL 17:22 17:40 Bus VIRGIN TRAINS
CAMBRIDGE BUS STATION 20:00

Note the claimed provider of the X5 service.

Another 1630 option via London gets you back to Cambridge at 19:39 and
the 16:24 direct service gets to Cambridge at 16:29.

They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:19 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

What about through fares to Underground zones? For example,
Cambridge to Morden?

Not sold as that AIUI. Cambridge to Zones 1 & 2 Saver Return:
29.00, with Network card: 19:15 66% of 29.00=19.14

Interesting. I thought that at least prior to the 2006 fares
revision, you didn't get the Railcard discount on the U12 part of the
fare. (The through fare would have been calculated as the sum of a
Cambridge to Finsbury Park Saver Return plus two Z12 Tube fares. Now,
it's done differently, though I'm not sure how.)

Even though most Cambridge-London services don't stop at Finsbury Park?

It could be King's Cross instead, but I assume Finsbury Park would be
valid (it's one ticket, not two, and the U12 part can be used between
FP and KX), and cheaper, so they'd have to issue that instead.

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:18 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Another 1630 option via London gets you back to Cambridge at 19:39 and
the 16:24 direct service gets to Cambridge at 16:29.

Gosh, that's quick.

They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

And trying to pass off 2000mph maglevs as trains...

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It's got some local bus service attributes (it provides the main
Cambridge-St Neots bus service these days) but is treated as a coach
service at our end.

In what way, other than it doesn't (I think) take standing pax? (It
used to, it's just that the current coaches don't have anything to hold
onto, being ex-National Express). I'm still pretty sure I have seen
under-16s on it on several occasions.

Pretty sure, yes. Clearly now it just tries to send you via London, even
though it is quicker and almost as frequent to use Central.

Thetrainline.com is still doing it now. Try a return from Birmingham to
Cambridge on 2 October around 16:30:

Interesting - TTL and NREKB appear to use different logic, odd given
that they're the same software.

Notably, though, while it does present the bus option it also presents
the via-London train service. Many people (including me) try to avoid
travel via London in the evening peak, as it isn't fun.

Press "earlier trains" and the direct service is there, incidentally.
It doesn't usually show trains before the specified time (though
sometimes it does, try 1615 and the 1612 is shown - perhaps it's a
5-minute threshold?)

Return journey: Monday 2 October 2006
Station Arr Dep Travel by Service Provider
BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET 16:30 Train VIRGIN TRAINS
MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL 17:22 17:40 Bus VIRGIN TRAINS
CAMBRIDGE BUS STATION 20:00

Note the claimed provider of the X5 service.

I agree this is misleading, if only from a ticketing point of view.
(Any P tickets are NOT valid on the X5 - there is a specific
destination and/or route). It's in as VT-operated because they added
it to the database.

They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

Hardly.

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:18 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Another 1630 option via London gets you back to Cambridge at 19:39
and the 16:24 direct service gets to Cambridge at 16:29.

Gosh, that's quick.

Oops! 19:29 at Cambridge, of course.

They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

And trying to pass off 2000mph maglevs as trains...

Just my typo.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

I'm still pretty sure I have seen
under-16s on it on several occasions.

I only referred to unaccompanied under-16s. My information is not /that/
up to date as the daughter in question is now 19.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fares changes for 2007
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:05 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

I'm still pretty sure I have seen
under-16s on it on several occasions.

I only referred to unaccompanied under-16s. My information is not /that/
up to date as the daughter in question is now 19.

I'm fairly certain that I used Associated Motorways unaccompanied from
about the age of 14. However, at that time you had to pay full fare
once you were 14, so maybe it is tied to the half-fare age limit?
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Fares changes for 2007
 

Terry Harper wrote:

I'm fairly certain that I used Associated Motorways unaccompanied from
about the age of 14. However, at that time you had to pay full fare
once you were 14, so maybe it is tied to the half-fare age limit?

AFAIAA it's company policy of National Express, but not of anybody
else. I strongly doubt that the X5 would have such a limit, as it's
not really a coach service in the traditional sense, as it doesn't
really have any of the properties of one other than being operated
using vehicles that look more like coaches than buses (though a decker
does show up from time to time).

Megabus[1] seems to state 15+ is allowed, and they don't *have* any
child fares. I actually can't find anything at all on NatEx's website
about it.

[1] Yes, I know the X5 takes some Megabus pax, but it is really just a
Stagecoach United Counties (Bedford) operation.

Neil

Fares changes for 2007
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

Hmm, evil might be a bit strong, perhaps "sneaky"?. That said, listing
bus services as part of a rail timetable is hardly new. E.g. take a
look at amtrak.com for service from Seattle, WA to Vancouver, BC.
--
Rob

Fares changes for 2007
 

In article . com,
(Rob Hamadi) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
They are evil, trying to pass buses off as trains.

Hmm, evil might be a bit strong, perhaps "sneaky"?. That said,
listing bus services as part of a rail timetable is hardly new. E.g.
take a look at amtrak.com for service from Seattle, WA to Vancouver, BC.

When they offer an indirect journey including a bus when there is a
faster and direct train is, IMHO, evil. The fact that the bus and
indirect train are run by the owners of the web site makes it worse.

--
Colin Rosenstiel