Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

On 18 Sep 2006 12:35:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Peter Frimberley ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

You can share a prepay Oyster card with other people but not during
the same journey.

And the system should have some assumption built in about the minimum
duration of a bus journey, but you you don't touch off a bus, so there
is no definite time when you stop using it (and can pass it to someone
else).

We don't know that it doesn't have such an assumption. It may be as
little as a few minutes, just enough to prevent more than one person
travelling on the same card.

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?

Well it mucks up the prepay capping, or at least makes the calculation
on whether a selection of journies have qualified for the cap that
much more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely adds an extra
degree of complexity.

Of course two people using the same Oyster card at different time
periods of the day also mucks up the prepay cap, but no more so than
people sharing a paper one day travel card.

Also what happens if two people get on the tube/bus together, but want
to get off at different stations/stops. The card can only go with one
of them.

In theory it ought to be possible but in practice it probably causes
more problems than it is worth, so they just disallow it altogether.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

Adrian wrote in
. 244.170:

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on
the same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person
paying in cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people
they're travelling with?

No. Many people can use the card, but only one at a time. Think about it.

D A Stocks

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

Adrian wrote:

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?

At the least, why can't you buy paper tickets using PAYG - doesn't even
have to affect the cap - just get a single ticket at the oyster fare or
even oyster fare + 50p.

Because now, when I'm travelling with a couple of other people from
outside london I'm going to be advising them to get an oyster card at
the ticket window, not a single ticket.

For a Waterloo-Euston journey (most recent case I did) that's get two
oyster cards at Waterloo and then return them for a refund of the
credit and deposit at Euston. This is really going to slow down ticket
sales. (If you can get an oyster with just 1.50 credit on it then
returning it doesn't make much sense as It's only 50p extra and I can
hang on to the card then until next time but AFAICT, this allows people
to cap single fares at 4.50 - get an oyster with 1.50+3GBP deposit,
make a 6GBP journey and then throw away the card.

(Will an oyster card stop working if it's not used for 6 months and has
no credit on it or can it just be topped up)

Tim.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

On 18 Sep 2006 12:35:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?

No, because of capping. It's more akin to one person buying a one day
bus pass and then all three travelling on it.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

David A Stocks ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on
the same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person
paying in cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people
they're travelling with?

No. Many people can use the card, but only one at a time.

I know they can't. But I can't see any reason why that should be - except,
as has been pointed out, the ODTC cap.

Think about it.

I have, thank you.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

Peter Frimberley ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on
the same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person
paying in cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people
they're travelling with?

Well it mucks up the prepay capping, or at least makes the calculation
on whether a selection of journies have qualified for the cap that
much more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely adds an extra
degree of complexity.

True.

Of course two people using the same Oyster card at different time
periods of the day also mucks up the prepay cap,

Which, AIUI, is legit...

but no more so than people sharing a paper one day travel card.

Which, AIUI, isn't legit...

Also what happens if two people get on the tube/bus together, but want
to get off at different stations/stops. The card can only go with one
of them.

Tube would be an issue for that - because of the touching out. Not a
problem on the bus, or if both/all get off together, as is likely to
happen.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On 18 Sep 2006 12:35:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Peter Frimberley ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

You can share a prepay Oyster card with other people but not during
the same journey.

And the system should have some assumption built in about the minimum
duration of a bus journey, but you you don't touch off a bus, so there
is no definite time when you stop using it (and can pass it to someone
else).

We don't know that it doesn't have such an assumption. It may be as
little as a few minutes, just enough to prevent more than one person
travelling on the same card.

If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?

Well it mucks up the prepay capping, or at least makes the calculation
on whether a selection of journies have qualified for the cap that
much more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely adds an extra
degree of complexity.

Of course two people using the same Oyster card at different time
periods of the day also mucks up the prepay cap, but no more so than
people sharing a paper one day travel card.

Also what happens if two people get on the tube/bus together, but want
to get off at different stations/stops. The card can only go with one
of them.

In theory it ought to be possible but in practice it probably causes
more problems than it is worth, so they just disallow it altogether.



I think I'd prefer that it only allowed one person to use the card and
simply didn't allow a second touch within a time limit, rather than it
charge me twice if I accidentally touched twice while getting on.

I think there can't be many situations where two consecutive touches in
the same bus on it's same journey wouldn't be some kind of mistake (eg
someone assuming they have to touch on the way out) and therefore
shouldn't be charged.

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

MIG wrote:
Peter Frimberley wrote:
On 18 Sep 2006 12:35:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Peter Frimberley ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

You can share a prepay Oyster card with other people but not during
the same journey.
And the system should have some assumption built in about the minimum
duration of a bus journey, but you you don't touch off a bus, so there
is no definite time when you stop using it (and can pass it to someone
else).
We don't know that it doesn't have such an assumption. It may be as
little as a few minutes, just enough to prevent more than one person
travelling on the same card.
If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?
Well it mucks up the prepay capping, or at least makes the calculation
on whether a selection of journies have qualified for the cap that
much more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely adds an extra
degree of complexity.

Of course two people using the same Oyster card at different time
periods of the day also mucks up the prepay cap, but no more so than
people sharing a paper one day travel card.

Also what happens if two people get on the tube/bus together, but want
to get off at different stations/stops. The card can only go with one
of them.

In theory it ought to be possible but in practice it probably causes
more problems than it is worth, so they just disallow it altogether.



I think I'd prefer that it only allowed one person to use the card and
simply didn't allow a second touch within a time limit, rather than it
charge me twice if I accidentally touched twice while getting on.

I think there can't be many situations where two consecutive touches in
the same bus on it's same journey wouldn't be some kind of mistake (eg
someone assuming they have to touch on the way out) and therefore
shouldn't be charged.


Perhaps a better solution would be to have an error message that says
"user has just paid for this journey"...

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

MIG wrote:

I think I'd prefer that it only allowed one person to use the card and
simply didn't allow a second touch within a time limit, rather than it
charge me twice if I accidentally touched twice while getting on.

Time limits on their own cause trouble, in case a connection is made
within that limit. Better would be a time limit for use in a reader
with the same serial number.

Neil

Suspected Scam Oyster on Buses
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
MIG wrote:
Peter Frimberley wrote:
On 18 Sep 2006 12:35:39 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Peter Frimberley ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

You can share a prepay Oyster card with other people but not during
the same journey.
And the system should have some assumption built in about the minimum
duration of a bus journey, but you you don't touch off a bus, so there
is no definite time when you stop using it (and can pass it to someone
else).
We don't know that it doesn't have such an assumption. It may be as
little as a few minutes, just enough to prevent more than one person
travelling on the same card.
If it's PAYG, what's the *problem* with several people travelling on the
same card...? Isn't it absolutely the same thing as one person paying in
cash for three tickets for themselves and the two people they're travelling
with?
Well it mucks up the prepay capping, or at least makes the calculation
on whether a selection of journies have qualified for the cap that
much more difficult. Not impossible, but definitely adds an extra
degree of complexity.

Of course two people using the same Oyster card at different time
periods of the day also mucks up the prepay cap, but no more so than
people sharing a paper one day travel card.

Also what happens if two people get on the tube/bus together, but want
to get off at different stations/stops. The card can only go with one
of them.

In theory it ought to be possible but in practice it probably causes
more problems than it is worth, so they just disallow it altogether.



I think I'd prefer that it only allowed one person to use the card and
simply didn't allow a second touch within a time limit, rather than it
charge me twice if I accidentally touched twice while getting on.

I think there can't be many situations where two consecutive touches in
the same bus on it's same journey wouldn't be some kind of mistake (eg
someone assuming they have to touch on the way out) and therefore
shouldn't be charged.


Perhaps a better solution would be to have an error message that says
"user has just paid for this journey"...



Firstly, I'd like to hang my head in shame and apologise for that
apostrophe, which was a pure typo, but still unforgiveable.

Secondly, yes, I think that's the same solution. The nature of not
allowing a second touch would presumably have to be some kind of error
message.