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Gold Card scheme
An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3,
"You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA -- Fig. |
Gold Card scheme
In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell,
Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
In message , Bob Wood
writes In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I think its an annual season ticket ! -- martyn dawe |
Gold Card scheme
Fig wrote: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA -- Fig. If you have an Annual Season Ticket for a route in the Network Card area, you automatically get a Gold Card. This offers more or less the same benefits as a Network Card with fewer restrictions. For example, the £10 minimum fare does not apply, you can upgrade to first class at weekends for £1.50 etc. |
Gold Card scheme
On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:10:30 +0100, Bob Wood
wrote: In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I found that one too, using Google. Doesn't really tell me much though. -- Fig |
Gold Card scheme
On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:41:33 +0100, martyn dawe
wrote: In message , Bob Wood writes In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I think its an annual season ticket ! It appears to come with an annual season ticket! But that still doesn't tell me what the 'benefits' are. -- Fig |
Gold Card scheme
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:34:12 +0100, ONscotland
wrote: Fig wrote: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? If you have an Annual Season Ticket for a route in the Network Card area, you automatically get a Gold Card. This offers more or less the same benefits as a Network Card with fewer restrictions. For example, the £10 minimum fare does not apply, you can upgrade to first class at weekends for £1.50 etc. Ah! So it would appear that, by purchasing an annual travel card, one automatically qualifies for the benefits of owning a 'Network RailCard' [ http://www.railcard.co.uk/ ] This appears to be some kind of scheme for getting discounted rail travel in SE England and would normally cost £20 per year. Am I correct? -- Fig |
Gold Card scheme
In news:op.tgscrncum4iaeb@dell,
Fig typed: On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:41:33 +0100, martyn dawe wrote: In message , Bob Wood writes In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I think its an annual season ticket ! It appears to come with an annual season ticket! But that still doesn't tell me what the 'benefits' are. The benefits are listed at the URL which I gave and which appears above. What else would you expect from a page that is headed "Gold Card Leisure Beneifts"? -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
In news:op.tgscorqkm4iaeb@dell,
Fig typed: On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:10:30 +0100, Bob Wood wrote: In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I found that one too, using Google. Doesn't really tell me much though. There is no more to tell you. The benefits are listed there. -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:37:20 +0100, Bob Wood
wrote: In news:op.tgscorqkm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:10:30 +0100, Bob Wood wrote: In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I found that one too, using Google. Doesn't really tell me much though. There is no more to tell you. The benefits are listed there. With respect, that page is a usability nightmare. I don't have time to cover it's many faults, nor is this the place to do it. Suffice to say, when I encounter such a disastrous piece of web publishing, I am inclined to lend very little weight to the credibility of it's content. -- Fig |
Gold Card scheme
Fig wrote:
Ah! So it would appear that, by purchasing an annual travel card, one automatically qualifies for the benefits of owning a 'Network RailCard' [ http://www.railcard.co.uk/ ] This appears to be some kind of scheme for getting discounted rail travel in SE England and would normally cost £20 per year. Am I correct? Nearly. As has already been pointed out, the benefits are slightly different (in the sense of being better) - particularly w.r.t. no minimum weekday fare and the availability of low-price first-class tickets. The website linked upthread [ https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp ], although badly designed, outlines the benefits of the Gold Card in some detail. On the off-chance that your web browser of choice is genuinely incapable of retrieving its contents, I've pasted them below: ***begin quote*** Holders of valid Annual Gold Cards, including Gold Cards issued by Transport for London and also Travelcards issued on Oyster and supported by a valid Gold Record Card, can purchase discounted tickets for travel on the following basis:- * A discount of 34% is available on the following ticket types - Standard Day Single, Standard Day Return, Standard Open Single, Standard Open Return, Cheap Day Single, Cheap Day Return, Network AwayBreak, Saver Return, and All Zones Off-Peak Day Travelcard (subject to a minimum fare - currently £4.80). * Up to 3 accompanying adults can travel at the same discounted fare each, and up to 4 accompanying children (aged 5 -15) travel at a flat fare of £1.00 each, single or return. Groups must travel together at all times. * Discounted tickets including First Class Supplements (see below for further details) are available anytime at weekends and on Public Holidays and from 1000 hours Monday to Friday. Tickets are subject to any restrictions that may apply to the use of corresponding fully priced tickets. * Train companies participating in the Gold Card Scheme a c2c, Central Trains, First Great Western, First Great Western Link, GNER, Island Line, Midland Mainline, 'one', Silverlink, South Eastern Trains, Southern, South West Trains, Thameslink, Virgin Trains, Wagn Railway, Wessex Trains. * Discounted tickets are only available for travel wholly within the area bounded by the following stations:- Weymouth, Exeter St Davids (via Honiton), Bedwyn, Didcot Parkway, Worcester Foregate Street (via Evesham), Banbury, Bicester Town, Long Buckby, Bedford, Huntingdon, Cambridge, Manningtree, Harwich and also all stations Cambridge to Kings Lynn, Dorchester West to Yeovil Pen Mill, and Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin. Discounts also available to/from the Isle of Wight on through rail/sea journeys on:- Red Funnel ships and Red Jet services between Southampton and East or West Cowes, and Wightlink ships between Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pier Head, and between Lymington Pier and Yarmouth. (Note special higher prices apply for accompanied children on these services). * Discounted tickets need only be purchased for accompanying adults and children if the journey is covered by the Gold Card route validity. * Where an Off-Peak Day Travelcard is required and the Gold Card is not valid in All Zones (e.g. not issued to 'R1256'), the Gold Card holder must also purchase a discounted Off-Peak Day Travelcard for themselves. If the Gold Card held is a Travelcard with less than 'All Zones' availability, an Off-Peak Day Travelcard at the minimum fare, currently £4.80, should be issued. * Gold Card Travelcard holders purchasing tickets for travel within the defined area but beyond the zones covered by their Travelcard, should be issued a discounted Travelcard Excess from the outer Boundary Zone, or a point- to- point ticket from the outermost station in the zones covered by their season ticket. Note 1.Such discounted tickets cannot be used on trains departing London terminal stations before 1000 Monday to Friday that do not stop at any station within the Travelcard area. Note 2. For through journeys beyond the defined area, an undiscounted ticket should be issued from the last station on the line of route covered by the Annual Gold Card. Clause 17 (c) of the Conditions of Carriage apply in these circumstances. * First Class 'one day' Supplements, currently priced at £3.00 per adult and £1.50 per child, can be purchased and used in conjunction with valid Standard Class discounted tickets on the following basis:- - First Class Supplements are valid for any journey on the date for which the ticket is issued. - On Mondays to Fridays they cannot be used over the route covered by a Gold Card unless a separate discounted ticket for the journey has been purchased. This does not apply at weekends on Public Holidays. - First Class Supplement tickets cannot be used on Mondays to Fridays between 1600 and 1900 on trains departing from London or any intermediate station between London and Clapham Junction inclusive. - First Class Supplement tickets are not valid for travel at any time on First Great Western, GNER, Midland Mainline, or Virgin West Coast services. On Virgin CrossCountry, travel is at the discretion of the on-train Senior Conductor and subject to accommodation being available. - Holders of First Class Annual Gold Cards need only purchase First Class Supplements for accompanying adults and children where the journey being made is covered by the route validity of their season ticket. - Accompanying passengers must also be issued with discounted adult Standard Class or child flat fare tickets as appropriate. Discounted tickets issued to holders of Network Railcards purchased at a discount by Annual Gold Card holders are subject to the normal Network Railcard terms and conditions, e.g. weekday minimum fares apply. ***end quote*** -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Gold Card scheme
In news:op.tgsjemvim4iaeb@dell,
Fig typed: On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:37:20 +0100, Bob Wood wrote: In news:op.tgscorqkm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:10:30 +0100, Bob Wood wrote: In news:op.tgrcqberm4iaeb@dell, Fig typed: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? TIA https://www.trainsfares.co.uk/season...d_benefits.asp I found that one too, using Google. Doesn't really tell me much though. There is no more to tell you. The benefits are listed there. With respect, that page is a usability nightmare. I don't have time to cover it's many faults, nor is this the place to do it. Suffice to say, when I encounter such a disastrous piece of web publishing, I am inclined to lend very little weight to the credibility of it's content. It may not be the best-designed website, but it contains the information that you asked for. Do you require spoon-feeing? -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
In article op.tgsjemvim4iaeb@dell, Fig writes
With respect, that page is a usability nightmare. I don't have time to cover it's many faults, nor is this the place to do it. Suffice to say, when I encounter such a disastrous piece of web publishing, I am inclined to lend very little weight to the credibility of it's content. This from a man who can't spell "its"? -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Gold Card scheme
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:57:48 +0100, Fig wrote:
With respect, that page is a usability nightmare. Looks OK to me; just plain text. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
Gold Card scheme
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article op.tgsc3nxdm4iaeb@dell, (Fig) wrote: On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:34:12 +0100, ONscotland wrote: Fig wrote: An earlier post pointed to the tfl t&cs which mentioned, in para 6.6.3, "You must present the Gold Record Card when you wish to buy a concessionary fare ticket under the terms of the Gold Card scheme." What is this "Gold Card scheme" and where can I find information on "concessionary fare tickets" or any other benefits of owning a Gold Card? If you have an Annual Season Ticket for a route in the Network Card area, you automatically get a Gold Card. This offers more or less the same benefits as a Network Card with fewer restrictions. For example, the £10 minimum fare does not apply, you can upgrade to first class at weekends for £1.50 etc. There appears to be a minimum now, but only £4.80. The £4.80 minimum fare only applies when buying Day Travelcards. |
Gold Card scheme
In ,
Colin Rosenstiel typed: There appears to be a minimum now, but only £4.80. The £4.80 minumum fare applies only to TravelCards, as far as I am aware. -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
Fig wrote: Ah! So it would appear that, by purchasing an annual travel card, one automatically qualifies for the benefits of owning a 'Network RailCard' [ http://www.railcard.co.uk/ ] This appears to be some kind of scheme for getting discounted rail travel in SE England and would normally cost £20 per year. Am I correct? You are Mr Logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Logic) and I claim my £5. Patrick |
Gold Card scheme
This is correct - I regularly get local journeys for about £1 using
the Gold Card. You can also take three friends who will enjoy the same benefits if travelling together. B. Bob Wood wrote: In , Colin Rosenstiel typed: There appears to be a minimum now, but only £4.80. The £4.80 minumum fare applies only to TravelCards, as far as I am aware. -- Bob |
Gold Card scheme
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:44:16 +0100, wrote:
Fig wrote: Ah! So it would appear that, by purchasing an annual travel card, one automatically qualifies for the benefits of owning a 'Network RailCard' [ http://www.railcard.co.uk/ ] This appears to be some kind of scheme for getting discounted rail travel in SE England and would normally cost £20 per year. Am I correct? You are Mr Logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Logic) and I claim my £5. Touche! A note of credit to the tune of five pounds sterling, to-wit, a fiver, in colloquial parlance, shall be tendered forthwith for your enjoyment. I urge you to avoid expenditure of said amount within the confines of a single transaction. ;) -- Fig |
Gold Card scheme
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:37:55 GMT, "Bob Wood"
wrote: In , Colin Rosenstiel typed: There appears to be a minimum now, but only £4.80. The £4.80 minumum fare applies only to TravelCards, as far as I am aware. I should just add that I've finally received written confirmation from London Underground that Gold Card holders are entitled to buy discounted Day Travelcards (from LU ticket offices) for use themselves. Which is something that has always been the case but unfortunatly the LU ticket office staff don't all seem to be aware of, for example insisting to me that I could only buy them for people travelling with me! Nicholas -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Gold Card scheme
Nicholas wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:37:55 GMT, "Bob Wood" wrote: In , Colin Rosenstiel typed: There appears to be a minimum now, but only £4.80. The £4.80 minumum fare applies only to TravelCards, as far as I am aware. I should just add that I've finally received written confirmation from London Underground that Gold Card holders are entitled to buy discounted Day Travelcards (from LU ticket offices) for use themselves. Which is something that has always been the case but unfortunatly the LU ticket office staff don't all seem to be aware of, for example insisting to me that I could only buy them for people travelling with me! Nicholas Well done for doing that - is it an email/letter from TfL/LU? Perhaps you might like to copy and paste it here so if people ask about this in the future they can find/be referred back to the official answer. I bet this doesn't filter down to LU ticket offices though! If they're being obstinate on this my workaround would be to buy the required discounted all-zones Day Travelcard at the ticket office and if they insist it's not necessary/not possible then you can just make out it's for a travelling companion who's just dawdling around the corner/in the shop/wherever. Bear in mind that when you go outside your Travelcards zonal validity... *if* you have your Gold Card Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card and *if* you're only travelling on the Tube/DLR/NR routes where Oyster Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) is accepted ....then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the excess fare. Example below... --- If you have a zones 1&3 Gold Card Travelcard and you're going to be travelling around a lot on the Metropolitan line beyond zone 3 then even if you made several journeys the amount you'd pay would be capped at less than £4.80 (which is the current price of a discounted all-zones Travelcard). If you stayed within zone 6 the cap would be £3.80 (which is the capping level that applies for journey in zones 2-6), and if you went out of zone 6 into zone(s) A/B/C/D then the cap would be £4.10. All capping levels quoted are off-peak price caps and can be reviewed on the TfL site [1]. --- Of course if you want to travel out of your Gold Card Travelcards zonal validity on most National Rail services Oyster PAYG is no good - which is where the discounted all-zones Day Travelcard comes in handy. And if you're travelling with others then the whole equation is of course different as you can of course buy discounted tickets (including all-zones Day Travelcards) for up to three other accompanying adults on the condition that their tickets mirror yours exactly. ----- [1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...ubedlr-4.shtml |
Gold Card scheme
On 8 Oct 2006 10:14:02 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
Nicholas wrote: I should just add that I've finally received written confirmation from London Underground that Gold Card holders are entitled to buy discounted Day Travelcards (from LU ticket offices) for use themselves. Which is something that has always been the case but unfortunatly the LU ticket office staff don't all seem to be aware of, for example insisting to me that I could only buy them for people travelling with me! Well done for doing that - is it an email/letter from TfL/LU? Perhaps you might like to copy and paste it here so if people ask about this in the future they can find/be referred back to the official answer. It's a letter. I originally wrote last December and was told (incorrectly) that I could NOT buy a discounted Day Travelcard for myself. I then wrote back attaching the relavant page of the ATOC fares manual and a print out of the page with the Gold Card benefits mentioned in this thread. The reply from the Customer Service Centre stated: "I have just double checked the position and as per the papers you provided, you can buy a discounted Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Travelcards, as well, at the same rate as any adults you might be helping, i.e. at the current rate of £4.80. " [apologies for the error in previous letter]... ...then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the excess fare. Example below... Indeed, thanks. I actually have a paper National Rail issued Zone 2 only Annual Travelcard which morphed itself into Zones 2&3 at no extra charge when I got the South West Trains ticket office to replace it as the print had faded out! Presumably they could no longer issue a Zone 2 only as the option doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, can't complain as I now have an extra zone to play with. :) Nicholas -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Gold Card scheme
Nicholas wrote:
On 8 Oct 2006 10:14:02 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote: Nicholas wrote: I should just add that I've finally received written confirmation from London Underground that Gold Card holders are entitled to buy discounted Day Travelcards (from LU ticket offices) for use themselves. Which is something that has always been the case but unfortunatly the LU ticket office staff don't all seem to be aware of, for example insisting to me that I could only buy them for people travelling with me! Well done for doing that - is it an email/letter from TfL/LU? Perhaps you might like to copy and paste it here so if people ask about this in the future they can find/be referred back to the official answer. It's a letter. I originally wrote last December and was told (incorrectly) that I could NOT buy a discounted Day Travelcard for myself. I then wrote back attaching the relavant page of the ATOC fares manual and a print out of the page with the Gold Card benefits mentioned in this thread. The reply from the Customer Service Centre stated: "I have just double checked the position and as per the papers you provided, you can buy a discounted Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Travelcards, as well, at the same rate as any adults you might be helping, i.e. at the current rate of £4.80. " [apologies for the error in previous letter]... Hmm. It looks like the original erroneous letter you received from them has just been dismissed as a foul up in LU's customer services department. I don't know wherther your original letter spoke of your past problems buying a discounted Day Travelcard from LU ticket office(s), but that extract doesn't sound like anything would be done to disseminate the correct information to LU ticket offices staff - perhaps the rest of the letter does say something like that. ...then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the excess fare. Example below... Indeed, thanks. I actually have a paper National Rail issued Zone 2 only Annual Travelcard which morphed itself into Zones 2&3 at no extra charge when I got the South West Trains ticket office to replace it as the print had faded out! Presumably they could no longer issue a Zone 2 only as the option doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, can't complain as I now have an extra zone to play with. :) Nicholas Nice! An extra zone for free is not to be sniffed at. Anyone buying an annual bus pass would of course do well to buy a Gold Card Travelcard (at a cost of £560 as opposed to £540) - not only would they get two zones of rail & Tube travel but they'd get the Gold Card benefits as well. Given that a Network Railcard costs £20 and the Gold Card discounts are better (same level of discount but no minimum fare, plus £3 first class upgrades, plus some TOCs offer more benefits on top of that), the extra £20 is well worth it - and of course you can get a Network Railcard for a partner/friend/member of the family/anyone you want for £1 as well. And of course if you buy it loaded on Oyster from TfL and use the Tube or DLR you automatically combine your Travelcard's zones of validity with Pay-as-you-go so you pay less for journeys out of your Travelcards validity - e.g. a daytime journey from zone 3 to zone 1 that would cost £2.50 using pure PAYG (paying for all three zones) costs £1.50 using Travelcard & PAYG combined (paying for zone 1 - zones 2&3 covered by the Travelcard). Small amounts maybe but they all add up over time. All that said I don't know how many people buy annual bus passes - I'd imagine it wasn't a great number. Nonthess those regularly buying monthly Travelcards would be wise to consider upgrading to the annual Gold Card for it's benefits. |
Gold Card scheme
On 8 Oct 2006 10:14:02 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Bear in mind that when you go outside your Travelcards zonal validity... *if* you have your Gold Card Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card and *if* you're only travelling on the Tube/DLR/NR routes where Oyster Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) is accepted ...then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the excess fare. You can't do this - if your annual season does not include at least a Z1-6 Travelcard, if you buy a Gold Card discounted Travelcard for anyone accompanying you, you must also buy one for yourself (even if you're not going outside your zones). (See the National Fares Manual, section F: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...4_Common_F.pdf ) This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket offices. |
Gold Card scheme
asdf wrote: On 8 Oct 2006 10:14:02 -0700, Mizter T wrote: Bear in mind that when you go outside your Travelcards zonal validity... *if* you have your Gold Card Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card and *if* you're only travelling on the Tube/DLR/NR routes where Oyster Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) is accepted ...then depending upon what zones your Gold Card Travelcard covers in many cases it'll be cheaper to just use your Oyster card to cover the excess fare. You can't do this - if your annual season does not include at least a Z1-6 Travelcard, if you buy a Gold Card discounted Travelcard for anyone accompanying you, you must also buy one for yourself (even if you're not going outside your zones). (See the National Fares Manual, section F: http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...4_Common_F.pdf ) You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder travelling alone. If one is travelling alone (i.e. *not* travelling together with accompanying adults who are benefiting from your Gold Card discount), then *if* one is using the Tube/DLR it is almost certainly cheaper for the holder of a Gold Card Travelcard loaded on an Oyster to just use the PAYG element to cover their excess fare automatically rather than buying a separate all-zones Travelcard. Thus I was just trying to demonstrate the usefulness of an Oyster card to Nicholas over a paper ticket when it comes to going outside the zonal validity of one's Travelcard. Of course if one day he were to be travelling extensively all around London on National Rail, who mostly don't accept Oyster PAYG, then buying a discounted all-zones Day Travelcard would be useful. That said he may well prefer to stick with SWT's paper tickets as he might get the 5% charter discount when renewing his Gold Card, plus SWT give holders 6 free weekend tickets as well. Of course if one is travelling with others then the Gold Card holder needs to buy a discounted all-zones Day Travelcard for themselves as well, unless their Gold Card Travelcard covers Z1-6 already. Apols for the confusion This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket offices. I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered by the Gold Card holders season ticket. If the rules were changed they'd either: (1) Have to allow the accompanying adults to have a discounted Day Travelcard that exactly matched the holders Travelcard - so for example a Z2&3 Day Travelcard would have to be created just for those accompanying a Gold Card holder, which would be incongruous with the pricing structure of Day Travelcards. TfL would not agree to this as it would mess things up. (2) Have to allow holders of less than all-zone Gold Card Travelcards to purchase discounted all-zone Travelcards for accompanying adults anyway, despite it breaking the "mirroring rule". This is what you seem to suggest. As well as breaking the NR fares "mirroring rule", I think TfL would object to this at it would mean that many people would choose this over other ticketing methods and it would have revenue implications. Bear in mind that the Gold Card discount scheme is one that was created by Network SouthEast (NSE) and was designed for the benefit of the railway, not LT/TfL. Indeed there was a period after it was introduced when London Transport issued annual Travelcards were *not* issued as Gold Cards - they were only only issued by NSE for a while - though in time LU started issuing them also. The agreement between the railways and LT/TfL - that only all-zones Travelcards benefit from railcard reductions - reflects the fact that it's really aimed at people outside of London buying out-boundary Travelcards (e.g. Brighton to zones 1-6), as opposed to purchases within London. I suspect one reason that the discounted all-zones Travelcard exist in the first place is to maintain a logical fares structure - if they did not exist an out-boundary Potters Bar to zones 1-6 railcard discounted Travelcard might be cheaper than an in-boundary one. Also one should note that TfL's aim is getting people who're travelling wholly within London onto using Oyster, rather than paper tickets. |
Gold Card scheme
On 9 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder travelling alone. Oops, sorry, I read some previous context into your post that wasn't actually there. This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket offices. I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered by the Gold Card holders season ticket. Firstly, I'm not sure if the "mirroring rule" really exists. I've just read through all the Gold Card rules again and I'm still none the wiser... But anyway, it does specifically say that if you're travelling within the validity of your season, you don't need to buy a ticket for yourself. It then gives the "have to also buy a discounted ODTC for yourself" rule as an *exception* to this. But then again, it says you only have to do this if your season is "not valid for travel in all the Travelcard zones" - I'd assumed this meant Z1-6, but perhaps it just means all the zones you travel through? The more you read these rules, the less clear they become! |
Gold Card scheme
asdf wrote:
On 9 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, Mizter T wrote: You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder travelling alone. Oops, sorry, I read some previous context into your post that wasn't actually there. My bad as the yanks (inexplicably) say! I first drafted my reply in the context of a Gold Card holder & one or more accompanying passengers, re-read Nicholas' post and thought in fact he was referring to just the Gold Card holder. Re-reading it again (!) it's unclear. This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket offices. I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered by the Gold Card holders season ticket. Firstly, I'm not sure if the "mirroring rule" really exists. I've just read through all the Gold Card rules again and I'm still none the wiser... But anyway, it does specifically say that if you're travelling within the validity of your season, you don't need to buy a ticket for yourself. It then gives the "have to also buy a discounted ODTC for yourself" rule as an *exception* to this. But then again, it says you only have to do this if your season is "not valid for travel in all the Travelcard zones" - I'd assumed this meant Z1-6, but perhaps it just means all the zones you travel through? The more you read these rules, the less clear they become! It's not clear what logic is at play, but there will be thinking behind it I'm sure. As I first said if there is the "mirroring rule" concept then there'd have to be all sorts of zonal combinations for Day Travelcards specifically for those accompanying Gold Card holders. Apart from anything this would be messy! But I think it leads on to the second point I was trying to inarticulately make - London Transport as was, and TfL as is, were/are only willing to play along with railcard reductions on the condition that the dicount applied to all-zones cards. I've no idea how the revenue division works here - do NR cover the discount by taking less out of the pot, or does TfL take a bit of a hit on the basis that Day Travelcard sales will be higher. If anyone in the know can add any information that's already in the public domain that'd be most interesting. |
Gold Card scheme
This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such
circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than I think it might be to penalise annual ticket holders who split their ticket to save money (like I do). I have a season from Potters Bar to Oakleigh Park and a Z1-4 oyster, which saves nearly £400 annually over a normal "all zones and extension" ticket. Probably like most commuters I rarely stray from my route and any social stuff I do is along that route and only out as far as Z2 in any other direction. I probably do Z3-6 about twice a year if that, which I can do on prepay using vouchers when delayed on the tube :) But of course, if I try to buy a discounted travelcard for the girlfriend, I have to buy one for myself. I bought a couple but finally the ticket office informed me this was not allowed. The ODTC is £10 so it's more expensive to buy two discounted tickets than one undiscounted ticket, so we just pay full price. I haven't tried mirroring my ticket getting a discount CDR and full price Z1-4 but I don't expect the ticket office could sell such a ticket as we're outside Z6. If they did, this brings the ticket down to £7.40 :) I guess we only go into London 20 or so times a year so that 17% saving on my normal ticket is the better option. D |
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