wrote:
wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
wrote:

there are still staff there snip
Does that count as staffed or unstaffed?

Errrr....

Judicious snipping alert!

For those who need everything spelt out, if a station has staff there,
but they are "inaccessible to passengers", that, in my opinion, is
hardly the same thing as an open ticket office & ticket hall.

Patrick

All London Underground stations are staffed 24/7, except for possibly
Christmas Day when the network closes down, and Boxing Day for some
stations. A supervisor is on site at all times, for reasons of
security, and to allow contractors on site to do their nightly works.

Of course, once the ticket office closes you may well not see the
staff, but it doesn't mean they're not there watching over things.



There was mention of control rooms before. What do control rooms
control? Presumably a station doesn't need to be controlled as such,
so if there happens to be a control room on the site, is it really
staffing the station?

In article .com,
MIG wrote:
There was mention of control rooms before. What do control rooms
control?

The station. The CCTV cameras. When we wandered round Loughton
for a open house weekend, the control room was part office; part
cctv monitoring station; where the equipment that allowed local
control of various signalling equipment lived; where the communiction
between line controller and station happened; and where the tea was
brewed.

Presumably a station doesn't need to be controlled as such,
so if there happens to be a control room on the site, is it really
staffing the station?

All stations have a room called the 'control room', I suspect.

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.

Mike Bristow wrote:
In article .com,
MIG wrote:
There was mention of control rooms before. What do control rooms
control?

The station. The CCTV cameras. When we wandered round Loughton
for a open house weekend, the control room was part office; part
cctv monitoring station; where the equipment that allowed local
control of various signalling equipment lived; where the communiction
between line controller and station happened; and where the tea was
brewed.

Presumably a station doesn't need to be controlled as such,
so if there happens to be a control room on the site, is it really
staffing the station?

All stations have a room called the 'control room', I suspect.



I don't really understand why any of this needs to relate to or be
located at a specific station, but if it does and they are always
staffed, you'd think it would be better if people were more evidently
there to help people.

At a slight tangent, I was at Kings Cross in the latish evening where
staff were very inefficiently trying to supervise long queues of people
who were trying to negotiate several partially-functional ticket
machines (I queued a long time for one, found it didn't take notes [no
warning] and, after a member of staff had several attempts at making it
work, I was told to start queueing over again for another machine that
might or might not work).

I couldn't understand why they didn't just open the ticket office and
simply serve all the people instead of taking several minutes per
person trying and failing to make a machine work. There seems to be no
sanity about making efficient or helpful use of staff who are present
on a station.

In article . com,
MIG wrote:

Mike Bristow wrote:
The station. The CCTV cameras. When we wandered round Loughton
for a open house weekend, the control room was part office; part
cctv monitoring station; where the equipment that allowed local
control of various signalling equipment lived; where the communiction
between line controller and station happened; and where the tea was
brewed.

I don't really understand why any of this needs to relate to or be
located at a specific station,

CCTV contol is best done locally, as if trouble occurs then the
staff that saw it happen can jump up and deal with it.

The office is required in the station so that the station staff can
do paperwork; the alternative would be not to have paperwork...
which is an attractive thought, but rather unlikely.

The local control of signalling equipment has to be, er, local,
otherwise it wouldn't be, er, local. It's a backup system for the
central control, and probably isn't used very often. I would expect
it to only exist at stations which have sidings/points etc nearby.

There needs to be some communication between the line controller and the
station so that when problems occur at the other end of the line, then
the station staff can advise their passengers approprately.

but if it does and they are always
staffed, you'd think it would be better if people were more evidently
there to help people.

If there's two members of staff and one is in the office/control
room and the other is on platform one doing something or other...
then there won't be any staff visable in the ticket office.

While it's nice if staff are obvious, it's not going to be possible
to achieve that for suburban stations off-peak without spending a
lot of money on more staff, most of whom will be doing nothing most
of the time.

I couldn't understand why they didn't just open the ticket office and
simply serve all the people instead of taking several minutes per
person trying and failing to make a machine work.

Perhaps there were no available staff who were trained on the
machinery in the ticket office. In that case, the best use of the
available staff would be to help customers with the ticket machines
(except for the one being trained on the machinery in the ticket
office, of course).

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.

In message , Mike Bristow
writes

I couldn't understand why they didn't just open the ticket office and
simply serve all the people instead of taking several minutes per
person trying and failing to make a machine work.

Perhaps there were no available staff who were trained on the
machinery in the ticket office. In that case, the best use of the
available staff would be to help customers with the ticket machines
(except for the one being trained on the machinery in the ticket
office, of course).

Mike has put his finger on the issue. There are Station Assistants (or
Customer Service Assistants now, or SA/CSA) and Station Assistants Multi
Functional (SAMF). Only SAMFs are trained to operate the ticket
equipment in the ticket offices and nobody else can operate them.

Also, as far as I can see, there is a whole palaver in opening and
closing a ticket office (banking, consolidation etc. etc.) which cannot
just be done at the drop of a hat (or a failing ticket machine).
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Mike Bristow
writes

I couldn't understand why they didn't just open the ticket office and
simply serve all the people instead of taking several minutes per
person trying and failing to make a machine work.

Perhaps there were no available staff who were trained on the
machinery in the ticket office. In that case, the best use of the
available staff would be to help customers with the ticket machines
(except for the one being trained on the machinery in the ticket
office, of course).

Mike has put his finger on the issue. There are Station Assistants (or
Customer Service Assistants now, or SA/CSA) and Station Assistants Multi
Functional (SAMF). Only SAMFs are trained to operate the ticket
equipment in the ticket offices and nobody else can operate them.

Also, as far as I can see, there is a whole palaver in opening and
closing a ticket office (banking, consolidation etc. etc.) which cannot
just be done at the drop of a hat (or a failing ticket machine).



When it's late in the evening and I am being asked to queue again,
after already queuing for a long time, in a desperate attempt to give
my money to these people who don't seem to be able to take it from me,
and wondering why I don't just jump over the barrier and go home, I
really don't give a toss how much palaver it might be for them to
bother to serve me and take my money.

The situation, against a background of being constantly accused of
being a thief and a cheat for just trying to travel, was totally
unacceptable.

I was trying to pay my money and go home, and the staff on the station
could neither take my money nor assist in me getting home. This is not
an efficient use of bodies, whatever the excuses.

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Mike Bristow
writes

I couldn't understand why they didn't just open the ticket office and
simply serve all the people instead of taking several minutes per
person trying and failing to make a machine work.

Perhaps there were no available staff who were trained on the
machinery in the ticket office. In that case, the best use of the
available staff would be to help customers with the ticket machines
(except for the one being trained on the machinery in the ticket
office, of course).

Mike has put his finger on the issue. There are Station Assistants (or
Customer Service Assistants now, or SA/CSA) and Station Assistants Multi
Functional (SAMF). Only SAMFs are trained to operate the ticket
equipment in the ticket offices and nobody else can operate them.

Also, as far as I can see, there is a whole palaver in opening and
closing a ticket office (banking, consolidation etc. etc.) which cannot
just be done at the drop of a hat (or a failing ticket machine).



When it's late in the evening and I am being asked to queue again,
after already queuing for a long time, in a desperate attempt to give
my money to these people who don't seem to be able to take it from me,
and wondering why I don't just jump over the barrier and go home, I
really don't give a toss how much palaver it might be for them to
bother to serve me and take my money.

The situation, against a background of being constantly accused of
being a thief and a cheat for just trying to travel, was totally
unacceptable.

I was trying to pay my money and go home, and the staff on the station
could neither take my money nor assist in me getting home. This is not
an efficient use of bodies, whatever the excuses.

MIG wrote:
When it's late in the evening and I am being asked to queue again,
after already queuing for a long time, in a desperate attempt to give
my money to these people who don't seem to be able to take it from me,
and wondering why I don't just jump over the barrier and go home, I
really don't give a toss how much palaver it might be for them to
bother to serve me and take my money.

The situation, against a background of being constantly accused of
being a thief and a cheat for just trying to travel, was totally
unacceptable.

I was trying to pay my money and go home, and the staff on the station
could neither take my money nor assist in me getting home. This is not
an efficient use of bodies, whatever the excuses.

There are ticket office opening hours published, and LUL do not allow
staff to open the ticket office outside of those times. Whilst this is
perhaps political, still who is going to put their job on the line to
serve a ticket after being expressly instructed not to? Its not
necessarily a case of they can't be bothered, but that they can't,
period.

As for opening a ticket office window, yes it is a palaver (I'll just
trust you thats how its spelt - I never had to type it before!!). An
account must be opened, which includes opening a time delayed safe,
counting all the money in it, logging it, etc etc, logging into the
ticket machine, and THEN you can begin to sell tickets. Once finished
you must count the money again, log it, put it back in the still time
delayed safe, and then you're done. Opening and closing one ticket
office window can take 15 minutes each way, so that would be 30 minutes
to sell one ticket.

But yes, they should really know how to use the ticket hall machines
too... If you have such an issue with it, I would suggest the best
course would be to write to LUL Customer Services and voice these
concerns, because we're all in the same boat.

wrote:
MIG wrote:
When it's late in the evening and I am being asked to queue again,
after already queuing for a long time, in a desperate attempt to give
my money to these people who don't seem to be able to take it from me,
and wondering why I don't just jump over the barrier and go home, I
really don't give a toss how much palaver it might be for them to
bother to serve me and take my money.

The situation, against a background of being constantly accused of
being a thief and a cheat for just trying to travel, was totally
unacceptable.

I was trying to pay my money and go home, and the staff on the station
could neither take my money nor assist in me getting home. This is not
an efficient use of bodies, whatever the excuses.

There are ticket office opening hours published, and LUL do not allow
staff to open the ticket office outside of those times. Whilst this is
perhaps political, still who is going to put their job on the line to
serve a ticket after being expressly instructed not to? Its not
necessarily a case of they can't be bothered, but that they can't,
period.

As for opening a ticket office window, yes it is a palaver (I'll just
trust you thats how its spelt - I never had to type it before!!). An
account must be opened, which includes opening a time delayed safe,
counting all the money in it, logging it, etc etc, logging into the
ticket machine, and THEN you can begin to sell tickets. Once finished
you must count the money again, log it, put it back in the still time
delayed safe, and then you're done. Opening and closing one ticket
office window can take 15 minutes each way, so that would be 30 minutes
to sell one ticket.

But yes, they should really know how to use the ticket hall machines
too... If you have such an issue with it, I would suggest the best
course would be to write to LUL Customer Services and voice these
concerns, because we're all in the same boat.


It's simple:

1) Loads of people milling about and in long queues waving money and
desperately trying to get someone to take it.

2) Staff around who can't take money.

3) Machines that don't work.

4) Barriers still in full operation.

5) Signs all over the place, and a general atmosphere (including on
forums like this), branding people as thieves for trying to travel.

This situation isn't acceptable. I don't give a toss what the excuses
are, it's not acceptable.

And it's even worse if you are trying to top up Oyster, because you
could end up being charged £4 unless you jump the barrier at the other
end. And they wonder how to stop people travelling without tickets.

It's simple:

1) Loads of people milling about and in long queues waving money and
desperately trying to get someone to take it.

2) Staff around who can't take money.

3) Machines that don't work.

4) Barriers still in full operation.

5) Signs all over the place, and a general atmosphere (including on
forums like this), branding people as thieves for trying to travel.

This situation isn't acceptable. I don't give a toss what the excuses
are, it's not acceptable.

And it's even worse if you are trying to top up Oyster, because you
could end up being charged £4 unless you jump the barrier at the other
end. And they wonder how to stop people travelling without tickets.

No-one's making excuses, but its obviously making you (and others)
angry, so why not write to the Customer Service Centre? The more
people who voice their disapproval of the way things are, the more
difference can be made.

Don't say its a waste of time, because that attitude is too common and
is what makes it a waste of time. We've done a lot up our way, and
rumours are that our ticket office times are being increased closer to
their original state!