On 18 Oct 2006 02:55:21 -0700, Boltar wrote:

I still don't really understand why they didn't keep CX open for peak
hour
or occasional trains so instead of reversing at green park the train
and
passengers just continue to CX. After all , apart from not having to
clean the platforms so often wheres the gain in closing them?

IIRC the escalators to the Jubilee line platforms at CX were
officially "life-expired" and would have had to have been replaced for
passengers to continue to have been allowed to access the platforms.

Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

B2003

asdf wrote:
IIRC the escalators to the Jubilee line platforms at CX were
officially "life-expired" and would have had to have been replaced for
passengers to continue to have been allowed to access the platforms.

Fair enough , but if the usage would be as low as LU suggested once
the JLE opened then they could just shut the escaltors down and
leave them to be used as stairs and let the public decide if they
could be bothered to walk it or not.

B2003

asdf wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 12:02:32 -0700, Andy wrote:

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth.

I'm reminded of the erstwhile arrangement at Wood Lane on the Central
Line, where IIRC the track leading to the depot was occupied by a
hinged part of the platform, which could be swung away if a train
needed to access the depot. Not sure they'd be too keen on that today
though...

That also crossed my mind. I can't possibly see who would complain
about a modern-day reprieve of that ingenious solution...

On 18 Oct 2006 07:36:51 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:


Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

The reason is that the benefit to that one passenger is massively offset
by the huge volumes of people with longer wait times and far more
congested travelling conditions on the extension. In short the
disbenefits outweigh the benefits and there is no way on earth that a
business case could be constructed to allow re-opening as per your
suggestion. LU would not be in compliance with the appraisal
methodology set out by TfL / DfT if it was to ignore the disbenefit of
lower service levels on the extension.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

I think the comment by another poster about the escalators being life
expired is correct. Given the depth of the platforms - even from the
intermediate level - I do not believe a stair only option would be
considered acceptable or safe. I'm sure there are standards relating to
this sort of thing and there may also be evacuation issues as well.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Boltar wrote:
Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

I don't think Green Park reversers are common in normal service, so
there's little point keeping CX open for normal service either. As for
special services, like someone else mentioned, you'd need to replace the
escalators (I'm not sure using them as fixed stairs would be allowed -
people would arrive at CX unaware that the exit involves a trudge up the
stairs, and you might need the capacity of escalators if the station is
meant to be used for special events at Wembley).

There would also be a staffing cost for the CX platforms if kept open
(not sure how many staff would be needed).

The other point is that the number of journeys benefiting from being
able to board the Jubilee line directly at Charing Cross is minimal.
People on overground trains can use Southwark or London Bridge instead;
interchange from the District line is accomplished at Westminster, and
Northern/Bakerloo interchange can take place at Waterloo. The remainder
of passengers will be heading either for buses (unlikely) or for the
immediate vicinity of the station - and it's unlikely that special
events at Wembley will require mass movement from Trafalgar Square.

In fact, the reverse is true - special events at Wembley would be best
served by running a full-frequency service all the way to North
Greenwich or Stratford, so that the largest number of people can be
served. Diverting some trains to CX would decrease frequency on the
extension, which would be silly when demand for travel to Wembley is
likely to be higher from Waterloo or London Bridge than Charing Cross
(particularly given that, as mentioned, overground passengers to Charing
Cross can use London Bridge or Southwark anyway with equal ease).


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Mizter T wrote:

The trackbed could be used for Met line sidings, if LU thought that
useful. I guess the trackbed could be built on - but given the
location, in a cutting, it's not ideal. It'll probably just lie empty,
for several years at least.

Personally, I'd like to see it turned into a market market with stalls
all along the route, to make up for the damage Thameslink 2012 is going
to do to Borough Market. But that's just me.

Dave Arquati wrote in :


I don't think Green Park reversers are common in normal service, so
there's little point keeping CX open for normal service either. As for
special services, like someone else mentioned, you'd need to replace the
escalators (I'm not sure using them as fixed stairs would be allowed -
people would arrive at CX unaware that the exit involves a trudge up the
stairs, ...).


Wouldn't you need to provide a lift (for disabled access) as well?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

Once construction is finished then it would of course them be turned
over to Steam On The Met. Only problem is I suspect every last steam
engine might have completely oxidised by then.

Nonsense - WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STRATEGIC RESERVE IS FOR?!

And people will be long extinct. Nevermind - the Crossrail tunnels will
come in handy for the new-breed of super rat to get about London
quickly.

Except that, as per one of my other far-sighted schemes, they'll have been
converted into subterranean canals.

Oh, but rats can swim, can't they? Okay, fair enough.

tom

--
Magic of a sufficiently advanced form is indistinguishable from science

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

Once construction is finished then it would of course them be turned
over to Steam On The Met. Only problem is I suspect every last steam
engine might have completely oxidised by then.

Nonsense - WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STRATEGIC RESERVE IS FOR?!


And people will be long extinct. Nevermind - the Crossrail tunnels will
come in handy for the new-breed of super rat to get about London
quickly.

Except that, as per one of my other far-sighted schemes, they'll have been
converted into subterranean canals.

Oh, but rats can swim, can't they? Okay, fair enough.


You're so far ahead of me Tom it's scary. Why oh why isn't Peter Hendy
banging on your door begging you to take the position of hyper-farsight
planner?