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Stratford Central Line signal
Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford
have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! MaxB |
Stratford Central Line signal
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:54:39 -0000, MaxB wrote:
Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! Possibly a tripcock tester? http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Si...photos.htm#Fig 3 The tester is usualy next to the track 3/4 of the way along the platform, with the white light next to the starting signal. -- Fig |
Stratford Central Line signal
MaxB wrote: Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! It's part of the Automatic Train Protection/Control system. There isn't a signal at the entrance to every block, trains being controlled by codes transmitted in the blocks. Where signals are retained, a green aspect indicated that all blocks up to the next signal are transmitting a proceed code. A white light indicates that a proceed code is being transmitted, but not by all blocks to the next signal. Red means stop (proceed code not being transmitted). It wasn't appropriate to use yellow, as on traditional signalling systems that would indicate to the driver that he was clear to the next signal. |
Stratford Central Line signal
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:54:39 -0000, MaxB wrote:
Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! Possibly a tripcock tester? http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Si...os.htm#Fig%203 The tester is usualy next to the track 3/4 of the way along the platform, with the white light next to the starting signal. -- Fig |
Stratford Central Line signal
Fig wrote:
Possibly a tripcock tester? http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Si...photos.htm#Fig 3 The tester is usualy next to the track 3/4 of the way along the platform, with the white light next to the starting signal. That was my first though when I read the question. Tripcock tester lights are often purple, but they are also white at times. The only other option I can think of off the top of my head is its a platform reverser signal, which indicates to the driver he is to turn on the platform. |
Stratford Central Line signal
wrote in message
oups.com... MaxB wrote: Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! It's part of the Automatic Train Protection/Control system. There isn't a signal at the entrance to every block, trains being controlled by codes transmitted in the blocks. Where signals are retained, a green aspect indicated that all blocks up to the next signal are transmitting a proceed code. A white light indicates that a proceed code is being transmitted, but not by all blocks to the next signal. Red means stop (proceed code not being transmitted). It wasn't appropriate to use yellow, as on traditional signalling systems that would indicate to the driver that he was clear to the next signal. Definitely the running signals, so I am sure this is the correct explanation. Thanks. MaxB |
Stratford Central Line signal
"Fig" wrote in message news:op.tiz9qurwm4iaeb@dell... On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:54:39 -0000, MaxB wrote: Why does the signal at the country end of the down Central Line at Stratford have Red, WHITE and Green aspects? It wasn't just a faded yellow! Possibly a tripcock tester? http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Si...os.htm#Fig%203 The tester is usualy next to the track 3/4 of the way along the platform, with the white light next to the starting signal. -- Fig It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). Andy |
Stratford Central Line signal
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Stratford Central Line signal
Boltar wrote: wrote: It wasn't appropriate to use yellow, as on traditional signalling systems that would indicate to the driver that he was clear to the next signal. They should have chosen something other than white though. If theres any colour that could be confused at a distance with lots of other normal lights nearby its a white. What was wrong with blue or purple for example? Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. |
Stratford Central Line signal
TheOneKEA wrote:
Boltar wrote: wrote: It wasn't appropriate to use yellow, as on traditional signalling systems that would indicate to the driver that he was clear to the next signal. They should have chosen something other than white though. If theres any colour that could be confused at a distance with lots of other normal lights nearby its a white. One would have thought so, but I think you'll find that white signals are already used on tram systems, e.g. Croydon and Bordeaux to my knowledge. Presumably the potential confusion has been investigated and found to be not a problem in practice. What was wrong with blue or purple for example? Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. VLU? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Stratford Central Line signal
In article ,
Richard J. wrote: Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. VLU? Victoria Line Upgrade, as a complete guess. -- I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood. |
Stratford Central Line signal
TheOneKEA wrote:
Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Article on signalling on the Central Line, penned by one Clive Feather: http://www.davros.org/rail/signalling/articles/central.html Cheers, Barry |
Stratford Central Line signal
White was originally chosen for the Victoria Line which was completely in
tunnel, as far as this signalling was concerned, and white was not considered as a problem in this situation. It basically meant that a train in ATO had authority to pass it whereas a manually operated one did not. The Jubilee Line simply extended this principle as did the Central Line. The Vic Line had unilluminated headway boards (viewed by the train lighting) which simply told the driver that the train had stopped for signalling purposes due to a train in front. Signals were provided where there was a need to protect converging routes or inform the driver of diverging routes. They were also supplied (as headwall corner signals) as starters on every station. This allowed a degraded mode of operation if a train could not be driven in ATO. If the train was in ATO the driver could press the start buttons with a white displayed on the signal, but manual operation had to wait for the green. Hindsight is a useful tool, but tripcock testers were supposed to display a purple/blue light and the white light on the Vic was most likely to be met under manual driving conditions (as opposed to ATO where the train would just pass the aspect as required) by ballast/works trains coming on or off the line - use of an aspect colour to mean different things during a journey could have caused confusion. Many ATO equipped railways around the world now use blue and/or maltese cross for this aspect. BTW - did you know that the original signal aspects on main line railways were white for clear and red for stop or caution (distants were not well differentiated in the early days). I do not know when the green aspect became the standard, but suspect that it was in the early years of the twentieth century as electric lighting external to the railway became common. I have an 1896 L&YR rule book which only quotes white and red. Peter -- Peter & Elizabeth Corser Leighton Buzzard, UK "Boltar" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: It wasn't appropriate to use yellow, as on traditional signalling systems that would indicate to the driver that he was clear to the next signal. They should have chosen something other than white though. If theres any colour that could be confused at a distance with lots of other normal lights nearby its a white. What was wrong with blue or purple for example? B2003 ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Stratford Central Line signal
"Barry Salter" wrote in message
... TheOneKEA wrote: Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Article on signalling on the Central Line, penned by one Clive Feather: http://www.davros.org/rail/signalling/articles/central.html Cheers, Barry Why not "flashing" yellow? MaxB |
Stratford Central Line signal
In message , Barry Salter
writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Stratford Central Line signal
Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Barry Salter writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. Bloody hell, yet another TLA. Whats TCT then? And we've only had a "guess" so far that VLU is Victoria Line Upgrade. If that's right, why is the Victoria Line changing to blue after nearly 40 years of white? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Stratford Central Line signal
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:02:37 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Steve Fitzgerald wrote: In message , Barry Salter writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. Bloody hell, yet another TLA. Whats TCT then? Given the context - trip cock tester And we've only had a "guess" so far that VLU is Victoria Line Upgrade. If that's right, why is the Victoria Line changing to blue after nearly 40 years of white? Yes VLU is Victoria Line Upgrade. And in JNP land we have JNUP which is Jubilee and Northern Upgrade Project. I don't know if we have an "official" abbreviation for the Sub Surface upgrade - haven't heard one yet. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Stratford Central Line signal
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:17:59 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: I don't know if we have an "official" abbreviation for the Sub Surface upgrade - haven't heard one yet. WHFO? |
Stratford Central Line signal
In message , Richard J.
writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. Bloody hell, yet another TLA. Whats TCT then? Ahem, as sir will note above, a Tripcock Tester? -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Stratford Central Line signal
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Stratford Central Line signal
In article , Peter Corser
writes BTW - did you know that the original signal aspects on main line railways were white for clear and red for stop or caution (distants were not well differentiated in the early days). I do not know when the green aspect became the standard, but suspect that it was in the early years of the twentieth century as electric lighting external to the railway became common. Green used to be the caution aspect: White is right and red is wrong. Green means gently go along. My memory says it was around WW1 that the caution aspect moved to yellow, allowing green to mean clear. On the big railway, shunters' handlamps show white for go and green for slow down. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Stratford Central Line signal
Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Richard J. writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. Bloody hell, yet another TLA. Whats TCT then? Ahem, as sir will note above, a Tripcock Tester? But surely that should be TT? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Stratford Central Line signal
"Richard J." wrote in message ... Steve Fitzgerald wrote: In message , Richard J. writes Nothing. In fac rumour has it that the white aspects are going to be replaced with blue aspects, to match the blue aspects to be used on the VLU signalling. Buuut...If you do that, then they could be confused with lamps associated with tripcock testers. Fun eh? Other than white is also a valid TCT colour too , depending on the location. Bloody hell, yet another TLA. Whats TCT then? Ahem, as sir will note above, a Tripcock Tester? But surely that should be TT? Nah, that's Tunnel Telephone... -- Cheers, Steve. Change from jealous to sad to reply. |
Stratford Central Line signal
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
... In article , Peter Corser writes BTW - did you know that the original signal aspects on main line railways were white for clear and red for stop or caution (distants were not well differentiated in the early days). I do not know when the green aspect became the standard, but suspect that it was in the early years of the twentieth century as electric lighting external to the railway became common. Green used to be the caution aspect: White is right and red is wrong. Green means gently go along. My memory says it was around WW1 that the caution aspect moved to yellow, allowing green to mean clear. On the big railway, shunters' handlamps show white for go and green for slow down. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: And of course "Feathers" are white too! MaxB |
Stratford Central Line signal
In message , MaxB
writes BTW - did you know that the original signal aspects on main line railways were white for clear and red for stop or caution (distants were not well differentiated in the early days). I do not know when the green aspect became the standard, but suspect that it was in the early years of the twentieth century as electric lighting external to the railway became common. Green used to be the caution aspect: White is right and red is wrong. Green means gently go along. My memory says it was around WW1 that the caution aspect moved to yellow, allowing green to mean clear. On the big railway, shunters' handlamps show white for go and green for slow down. And of course "Feathers" are white too! We don't have feathers on the Underground.... we have arbour lights. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Stratford Central Line signal
"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
... In message , MaxB writes BTW - did you know that the original signal aspects on main line railways were white for clear and red for stop or caution (distants were not well differentiated in the early days). I do not know when the green aspect became the standard, but suspect that it was in the early years of the twentieth century as electric lighting external to the railway became common. Green used to be the caution aspect: White is right and red is wrong. Green means gently go along. My memory says it was around WW1 that the caution aspect moved to yellow, allowing green to mean clear. On the big railway, shunters' handlamps show white for go and green for slow down. And of course "Feathers" are white too! We don't have feathers on the Underground.... we have arbour lights. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) Well, they sound very pretty too! MaxB |
Stratford Central Line signal
In article , Andy
writes It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). There is one on the Victoria Line, at signal VK11. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Stratford Central Line signal
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:51:17 +0000, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). There is one on the Victoria Line, at signal VK11. That would be a trainstop, surely? |
Stratford Central Line signal
asdf wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:51:17 +0000, Clive D. W. Feather wrote: It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). There is one on the Victoria Line, at signal VK11. That would be a trainstop, surely? touché |
Stratford Central Line signal
I remember at conversation like this at the RTC in the 1970s ("Railway
Training Centre", before anyone asks...)....someone suggested using a black light..... |
Stratford Central Line signal
In article , asdf
writes It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). There is one on the Victoria Line, at signal VK11. That would be a trainstop, surely? True. In which case there are probably several tripcocks at Northumberland Park. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Stratford Central Line signal
Clive D. W. Feather wrote: In article , asdf writes It may be worth pointing out that there are no tripcocks on the central line (or the vic line). There is one on the Victoria Line, at signal VK11. That would be a trainstop, surely? True. In which case there are probably several tripcocks at Northumberland Park. There isn't one at VK11. There is however a fixed trainstop on the Highbury side of 10A points. Similarly there are fixed trainstop ramps between 3A points and Finsbury Pk NB Platform, and also leaving Northumberland Park depot. |
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