The handful of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a
different matter, although the refurbishment exercise that has been
undertaken on them has improved the environment slightly.

Unfortunately the handful of trains are used mainly on the same services -
between Letchworth and Kings X - I never see a 365 on the Finsbury
Park/Potters Bar stopping pattern Wish they'd share them out!

I don't think FCC are much different to WAGN. Twice on saturday lunchtimes
I've had to wait for following slow (317) services because the 4 car unit
was packed with Arsenal supporters (while the P'boro and Camb services whiz
through with 8 cars and half empty!). I know they put on extra afternoon
trains but the supporters travel early to beat the rush! Making the
saturday ones and off peaks 8 cars anyway should be the norm, it won't
encourage many occasional travellers out of their cars if they realise they
have to stand.

I guess though the weekend service is probably loss-making, they make the
money during the week and it's just an inconvenience to have to run stuff
weekends.

D

Dave Plumb wrote:
I don't think FCC are much different to WAGN. Twice on saturday lunchtimes
I've had to wait for following slow (317) services because the 4 car unit
was packed with Arsenal supporters (while the P'boro and Camb services whiz
through with 8 cars and half empty!).

Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233 from
Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20
minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following reply: -

"Thank you for your email regarding your journey with us on 18
November
2006. Please accept my apologies for the difficulties you
encountered
whilst attempting to travel on the 1233 service and whilst
actually
travelling on the 1239 service between Stevenage and London Kings
Cross.

I am sorry for the discomfort that you experienced during the
course of
your journey because of the crowded conditions on the train. We want
our
customers to travel in comfort and appreciate the anxiety that is
caused by
such conditions.

We aim to deploy our current fleet in the most effective way
possible in
order to meet the anticipated demand for each service. As many of
our
customers hold fully flexible tickets we cannot always provide the
amount
of capacity required. We seek to ensure that all our trains have at
least
the advertised amount of carriages and our resources are
concentrated on
those services that we know to be the busiest.

With regards to your comments about football matches at
Arsenal, we
currently provide extra services on Saturdays and for week night
games in
order to accommodate the extra travellers, these extra trains
are
constantly reviewed.

We welcome all feedback that we receive from our customers and each
comment
is used to compile regular management reports. Our managers and
directors
use these reports to highlight areas of our service where improvements
are
required.

Thank you again for contacting us and I do hope that you will
continue to
travel with First Capital Connect in the future."

Not Great, but I didn't expect much else and at least the complaint has
been registered to show up on the stats.

regards
HN28

Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233 from
Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20
minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following reply:

I think I was on an earlier one and it still was rammed (12.29/Potters
Bar). Not even a stand in first class, you physically couldn't have got on
the thing! It left about 30 people behind. Their reply is fine as far as
sympathy goes but short on action

I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it shouldn't
be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned and addressed but
better would be make them all 8's off peak and weekends.

I understand during peaks given available stock, paths and platform lengths
overcrowding can occur and there isn't an easy or instant answer. But no
excuse making people stand off peak and weekends just to help their
servicing costs! These off peak and weekend people are more likely to have
paid for tickets rather than commuters travelling 'for free'. Just the sort
of people the railway should be nice to - those who can use alternatives,
rather than commuters who are pretty much forced onto the crowded and
standing-room railways with no viable alternative.

D

Dave Plumb wrote:

I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it
shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned
and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and
weekends.

At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime.

On 18 Nov 2006 16:52:34 -0800, wrote:

Dave Plumb wrote:
I don't think FCC are much different to WAGN. Twice on saturday lunchtimes
I've had to wait for following slow (317) services because the 4 car unit
was packed with Arsenal supporters (while the P'boro and Camb services whiz
through with 8 cars and half empty!).

Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233 from
Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20
minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following reply: -

"Thank you for your email regarding your journey with us on 18
November
2006. Please accept my apologies for the difficulties you
encountered
whilst attempting to travel on the 1233 service and whilst
actually
travelling on the 1239 service between Stevenage and London Kings
Cross.

I am sorry for the discomfort that you experienced during the
course of
your journey because of the crowded conditions on the train. We want
our
customers to travel in comfort and appreciate the anxiety that is
caused by
such conditions.

So provide some extra carriages rather than have them sit in Hornsey
depot!

We aim to deploy our current fleet in the most effective way
possible in
order to meet the anticipated demand for each service. As many of
our
customers hold fully flexible tickets we cannot always provide the
amount
of capacity required. We seek to ensure that all our trains have at
least
the advertised amount of carriages and our resources are
concentrated on
those services that we know to be the busiest.

I particularly like the comment that seeks to blame passengers because
they buy fully flexible tickets rather than being forced to buy cheapo
discount tickets that restrict them to one departure. How sad that this
might cause FCC a bit of trouble in matching capacity to demand!

Do they imagine they are running a business class only airline or a
railway? As everyone else has said the crowding being referred to is
entirely predictable and it would take little effort to provide
appropriate additional capacity.

All this franchise is about is screwing as much money out of passengers
for the least possible expenditure in providing the actual service.
Thank goodness I only use it on rare occasions.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it
shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned
and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and
weekends.

At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime.

Then the rail company need to put security guards on the trains, it's not
an answer to run short (packed) trains to make people feel safer.

D

Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233
from Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about
20 minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following

The new timetable is out and my early morning train that isn't packed has
been retimed (0656 ex Potters Bar) so that's ten minutes less in bloody bed
The earlier fast (0649) is standing room only by the time it gets here,
how can that be at 7am? Oh yes, four cars ...

No trains sat/sun from 31st March too. Deep joy! As a shift worker the car
is now starting to make more sense.

D

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, Dave Plumb wrote:

I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it
shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned
and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and
weekends.

At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime.

Then the rail company need to put security guards on the trains, it's not
an answer to run short (packed) trains to make people feel safer.

Hang on, wires have become crossed here - John was making a safety
objection to running long trains when they *aren't* packed, ie off-peak
times when there's no football. When they are packed, long trains are just
as safe from that point of view, since (i assume) the safety comes from
having a sufficiently high density of bystanders to deter have-a-go
villains. Indeed, when you've got football crush loads, longer trains
would *increase* safety, due to less, er, crushing!

Still, i agree that trains should be safe spaces for passengers,
regardless of how busy they are. Bringing back guards to DOO trains, and
giving them better training and support, would help in this. CCTV in all
cars would be good too (do we already have this?). Another possibility
might be to designate a protected carriage, perhaps the front one, which
would be continuously monitored over CCTV by the driver (er, perfectly
safe, i'm sure), so that if anything untoward happened, help could be
summoned.

tom

--
If a scientist were to cut his ear off, no one would take it as evidence
of heightened sensibility -- Peter Medawar

and giving them better training and support, would help in this. CCTV
in all cars would be good too (do we already have this?). Another

All the FCC 317's and 313's I've been on recently have CCTV but this is
more evidential after the fact rather than anyone watching it live.

The reason for the 4 car presentation was given just now on uk.railway as
short platforms between Royston and Cambridge affecting stoppers.
Reasonable on safety grounds but surely this isn't news to the railway,
it's been like that since the stations were built!

D

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

All this franchise is about is screwing as much money out of
passengers for the least possible expenditure in providing the actual
service. Thank goodness I only use it on rare occasions.

Not exactly, according to a First group employee I know on Saturday. The
Government is about is screwing as much money out of passengers for the
least possible expenditure in providing the actual service, sadly. First
have no choice but to do their bidding.

--
Colin Rosenstiel