hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones
are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the
seat in first.

Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock.

tom

Thomas Wiacek wrote:
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones
are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the
seat in first.

Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock.

tom
The only way that FCC will get new rolling stock is if the Thameslink
Programme goes ahead. Since the DfT has stated that a decision on
funding will be made by next summer (although given their reputation
they may push that right to the autumn equinox), no new trains will be
procured before then.
Assuming a timely decision, there won't be any new trains until at least
2012 (when the first phase is expected to finish), and perhaps not until
2015 (when the whole project is expected to finish).

Thomas Wiacek wrote:
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current
ones are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push
the seat in first.

Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock.

It depends which bit of FCC you are referring to. The Great Northern stock
is, in the main, mid-1990s Class 365 trains - quite suitable for the job, in
pretty good condition and a long way from requiring replacement. The handful
of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a different matter, although the
refurbishment exercise that has been undertaken on them has improved the
environment slightly.

If you are referring to the Thameslink route then the Class 319s date from
the late 1980s, when they were built to replace the original BedPan
electrification Class 317s (which went to what is now the Silverlink County
route for a while before moving to Great Northern and more recently 'one'
Railway). The 319s have never been particularly good for the job. The
accommodation is cramped, the seats are way too low and far too closely
fitted (I'm 6' 5" and when I sit down - in the bay seats, I can't get into
the face-to-back ones - my knees are usually about two inches from the
facing seat cushion). However, it looks very likely that this stock will
remain until the former Thameslink 2000 project is finally funded, when it
would be likely that a common build of stock would be acquired for both the
Thameslink and Great Northern sections, once they physically come together.
In the meantime, all you have to look forward to is the possible return of
the 'missing' 319 units that are currently operated by Southern Railway,
which may occur in the New Year when South West Trains have a shuffle round
of stock and return the Wessex Electric Class 442 units to the leasing
company - word is that they *may* make their way to Southern, for Brighton
services, causing a cascade of stock that will free up the remaining 319s
for a return to the Thameslink route of FCC.

In message , Jack Taylor
writes
Thomas Wiacek wrote:
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current
ones are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push
the seat in first.

Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock.

It depends which bit of FCC you are referring to. The Great Northern
stock is, in the main, mid-1990s Class 365 trains - quite suitable for the
job, in pretty good condition and a long way from requiring replacement.
The handful of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a different matter,
although the refurbishment exercise that has been undertaken on them
has improved the environment slightly.

You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in their
first flush of youth.

Bob
--
Bob Adams - email: bob55 at ntlworld dot com

Bob Adams wrote:

You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in
their first flush of youth.

A very good point indeed. I must have been having a senior moment! ;-)

The 313s aren't the finest piece of equipment in the world by a country
mile. Typical 1970s BR austerity kit. Of course, the 313s, 314s and 315s are
now the oldest a.c. equipment on the network, in fleet service. There is
talk of TPTB north of the border funding replacements for the 314s in the
next 4-5 years. No doubt the 313s and 315s will be coming up for renewal not
long afterwards, they will be over 35 years old by then. I suspect that the
Silverlink 313s may well not find another home once that operator (or TfL,
in point of fact) has no further use for them, once the Electrostars have
taken over.

Perhaps that would be the solution - an add-on order of high-density
dual-voltage Electrostars to replace the 313s and a fleet of the
lower-density mainline ones to replace the current long-distance/outer
suburban stock. It would certainly be a political solution, keeping Derby in
production around the LUL fleet replacement programme - although our friends
in Germany and Japan might have other ideas.

Bob Adams wrote:

You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in their
first flush of youth.

Whilst they may be 30 years old, the refurb a few years back has made
the FCC 313s quite bearable.

Just a shame Silverlink haven't done the same with theirs, though that's
possibly related to the behaviour of a significant minority on the
"core" North London Line.

Cheers,

Barry

Jack Taylor wrote:
A very good point indeed. I must have been having a senior moment! ;-)

The 313s aren't the finest piece of equipment in the world by a country
mile. Typical 1970s BR austerity kit. Of course, the 313s, 314s and 315s are
now the oldest a.c. equipment on the network, in fleet service. There is
talk of TPTB north of the border funding replacements for the 314s in the
next 4-5 years. No doubt the 313s and 315s will be coming up for renewal not
long afterwards, they will be over 35 years old by then. I suspect that the
Silverlink 313s may well not find another home once that operator (or TfL,
in point of fact) has no further use for them, once the Electrostars have
taken over.

I highly doubt that, as FCC will still be using 313s on services from
KX and Moorgate. I am of the opinion that the only proper thing to do
when the 313s go off lease is to refurbish them internally and turn
them over to FCC to lengthen all of the 313-operated trains from KX and
Moorgate to their maximum feasible lengths. In so doing, FCC may gain
sufficient stock to operate Saturday services and later night weekday
services on the GN&CR, which may save KX's bacon during any disruption
caused by the continuing works on St. Pancras.


Perhaps that would be the solution - an add-on order of high-density
dual-voltage Electrostars to replace the 313s and a fleet of the
lower-density mainline ones to replace the current long-distance/outer
suburban stock. It would certainly be a political solution, keeping Derby in
production around the LUL fleet replacement programme - although our friends
in Germany and Japan might have other ideas.

This will probably only happen if FCC decides to dump its 313s as well,
which I personally feel is not likely to happen until the T&GN
franchise is fully joined up by the Thameslink 3000 project. Once that
happens I would not be surprised if the 313s and 319s are replaced en
masse.

TheOneKEA wrote:

This will probably only happen if FCC decides to dump its 313s as
well, which I personally feel is not likely to happen until the T&GN
franchise is fully joined up by the Thameslink 3000 project. Once that
happens I would not be surprised if the 313s and 319s are replaced en
masse.

We agree on the timing (I mentioned post-TL2K funding) but I don't agree on
stock. I think that the replacement programme is more likely to be a
standard outer-suburban variant to replace the 317s/319s/365s with a common
vehicle and an inner-suburban variant to replace the 313s (and possibly the
319s that work the Sutton loop services, which is more 'inner-suburban'). I
suggested slightly flippantly that the Bombardier Electrostar in its 375 and
376 forms might fit the bill (giving commonality of spares) but you rightly
remind me about the Moorgate tunnel problem, which I'd forgotten about.

Jack Taylor wrote:
We agree on the timing (I mentioned post-TL2K funding) but I don't agree on
stock. I think that the replacement programme is more likely to be a
standard outer-suburban variant to replace the 317s/319s/365s with a common
vehicle and an inner-suburban variant to replace the 313s (and possibly the
319s that work the Sutton loop services, which is more 'inner-suburban'). I
suggested slightly flippantly that the Bombardier Electrostar in its 375 and
376 forms might fit the bill (giving commonality of spares) but you rightly
remind me about the Moorgate tunnel problem, which I'd forgotten about.

Indeed.

Short term, the Silverlink 313s should go to FCC, period.

Long term: if you feel that replacing the 365s alongside the 317s and
319s is feasible, given their age, then I would suggest that the 365s
should become dual-voltage and sent to the Southern Region to interwork
with the 465s.

In article . com,
TheOneKEA writes
then I would suggest that the 365s
should become dual-voltage and sent to the Southern Region to interwork
with the 465s.

Which is where some of them came from.

--
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