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FCC new stock
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones
are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the seat in first. Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock. tom |
FCC new stock
Thomas Wiacek wrote:
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the seat in first. Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock. tom The only way that FCC will get new rolling stock is if the Thameslink Programme goes ahead. Since the DfT has stated that a decision on funding will be made by next summer (although given their reputation they may push that right to the autumn equinox), no new trains will be procured before then. Assuming a timely decision, there won't be any new trains until at least 2012 (when the first phase is expected to finish), and perhaps not until 2015 (when the whole project is expected to finish). |
FCC new stock
Thomas Wiacek wrote:
hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the seat in first. Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock. It depends which bit of FCC you are referring to. The Great Northern stock is, in the main, mid-1990s Class 365 trains - quite suitable for the job, in pretty good condition and a long way from requiring replacement. The handful of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a different matter, although the refurbishment exercise that has been undertaken on them has improved the environment slightly. If you are referring to the Thameslink route then the Class 319s date from the late 1980s, when they were built to replace the original BedPan electrification Class 317s (which went to what is now the Silverlink County route for a while before moving to Great Northern and more recently 'one' Railway). The 319s have never been particularly good for the job. The accommodation is cramped, the seats are way too low and far too closely fitted (I'm 6' 5" and when I sit down - in the bay seats, I can't get into the face-to-back ones - my knees are usually about two inches from the facing seat cushion). However, it looks very likely that this stock will remain until the former Thameslink 2000 project is finally funded, when it would be likely that a common build of stock would be acquired for both the Thameslink and Great Northern sections, once they physically come together. In the meantime, all you have to look forward to is the possible return of the 'missing' 319 units that are currently operated by Southern Railway, which may occur in the New Year when South West Trains have a shuffle round of stock and return the Wessex Electric Class 442 units to the leasing company - word is that they *may* make their way to Southern, for Brighton services, causing a cascade of stock that will free up the remaining 319s for a return to the Thameslink route of FCC. |
FCC new stock
In message , Jack Taylor
writes Thomas Wiacek wrote: hi just wondering when fcc will get some new trains as the current ones are dirty and broken when i go to sit down on one i have to push the seat in first. Could anyone tell me when fcc are getting new stock. It depends which bit of FCC you are referring to. The Great Northern stock is, in the main, mid-1990s Class 365 trains - quite suitable for the job, in pretty good condition and a long way from requiring replacement. The handful of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a different matter, although the refurbishment exercise that has been undertaken on them has improved the environment slightly. You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in their first flush of youth. Bob -- Bob Adams - email: bob55 at ntlworld dot com |
FCC new stock
Bob Adams wrote:
You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in their first flush of youth. A very good point indeed. I must have been having a senior moment! ;-) The 313s aren't the finest piece of equipment in the world by a country mile. Typical 1970s BR austerity kit. Of course, the 313s, 314s and 315s are now the oldest a.c. equipment on the network, in fleet service. There is talk of TPTB north of the border funding replacements for the 314s in the next 4-5 years. No doubt the 313s and 315s will be coming up for renewal not long afterwards, they will be over 35 years old by then. I suspect that the Silverlink 313s may well not find another home once that operator (or TfL, in point of fact) has no further use for them, once the Electrostars have taken over. Perhaps that would be the solution - an add-on order of high-density dual-voltage Electrostars to replace the 313s and a fleet of the lower-density mainline ones to replace the current long-distance/outer suburban stock. It would certainly be a political solution, keeping Derby in production around the LUL fleet replacement programme - although our friends in Germany and Japan might have other ideas. |
FCC new stock
Bob Adams wrote:
You appear to have overlooked the 313's, which are not exactly in their first flush of youth. Whilst they may be 30 years old, the refurb a few years back has made the FCC 313s quite bearable. Just a shame Silverlink haven't done the same with theirs, though that's possibly related to the behaviour of a significant minority on the "core" North London Line. Cheers, Barry |
FCC new stock
Jack Taylor wrote: A very good point indeed. I must have been having a senior moment! ;-) The 313s aren't the finest piece of equipment in the world by a country mile. Typical 1970s BR austerity kit. Of course, the 313s, 314s and 315s are now the oldest a.c. equipment on the network, in fleet service. There is talk of TPTB north of the border funding replacements for the 314s in the next 4-5 years. No doubt the 313s and 315s will be coming up for renewal not long afterwards, they will be over 35 years old by then. I suspect that the Silverlink 313s may well not find another home once that operator (or TfL, in point of fact) has no further use for them, once the Electrostars have taken over. I highly doubt that, as FCC will still be using 313s on services from KX and Moorgate. I am of the opinion that the only proper thing to do when the 313s go off lease is to refurbish them internally and turn them over to FCC to lengthen all of the 313-operated trains from KX and Moorgate to their maximum feasible lengths. In so doing, FCC may gain sufficient stock to operate Saturday services and later night weekday services on the GN&CR, which may save KX's bacon during any disruption caused by the continuing works on St. Pancras. Perhaps that would be the solution - an add-on order of high-density dual-voltage Electrostars to replace the 313s and a fleet of the lower-density mainline ones to replace the current long-distance/outer suburban stock. It would certainly be a political solution, keeping Derby in production around the LUL fleet replacement programme - although our friends in Germany and Japan might have other ideas. This will probably only happen if FCC decides to dump its 313s as well, which I personally feel is not likely to happen until the T&GN franchise is fully joined up by the Thameslink 3000 project. Once that happens I would not be surprised if the 313s and 319s are replaced en masse. |
FCC new stock
TheOneKEA wrote:
This will probably only happen if FCC decides to dump its 313s as well, which I personally feel is not likely to happen until the T&GN franchise is fully joined up by the Thameslink 3000 project. Once that happens I would not be surprised if the 313s and 319s are replaced en masse. We agree on the timing (I mentioned post-TL2K funding) but I don't agree on stock. I think that the replacement programme is more likely to be a standard outer-suburban variant to replace the 317s/319s/365s with a common vehicle and an inner-suburban variant to replace the 313s (and possibly the 319s that work the Sutton loop services, which is more 'inner-suburban'). I suggested slightly flippantly that the Bombardier Electrostar in its 375 and 376 forms might fit the bill (giving commonality of spares) but you rightly remind me about the Moorgate tunnel problem, which I'd forgotten about. |
FCC new stock
Jack Taylor wrote: We agree on the timing (I mentioned post-TL2K funding) but I don't agree on stock. I think that the replacement programme is more likely to be a standard outer-suburban variant to replace the 317s/319s/365s with a common vehicle and an inner-suburban variant to replace the 313s (and possibly the 319s that work the Sutton loop services, which is more 'inner-suburban'). I suggested slightly flippantly that the Bombardier Electrostar in its 375 and 376 forms might fit the bill (giving commonality of spares) but you rightly remind me about the Moorgate tunnel problem, which I'd forgotten about. Indeed. Short term, the Silverlink 313s should go to FCC, period. Long term: if you feel that replacing the 365s alongside the 317s and 319s is feasible, given their age, then I would suggest that the 365s should become dual-voltage and sent to the Southern Region to interwork with the 465s. |
FCC new stock
In article . com,
TheOneKEA writes then I would suggest that the 365s should become dual-voltage and sent to the Southern Region to interwork with the 465s. Which is where some of them came from. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
FCC new stock
The handful of Class 317s (from 1982) that remain are a
different matter, although the refurbishment exercise that has been undertaken on them has improved the environment slightly. Unfortunately the handful of trains are used mainly on the same services - between Letchworth and Kings X - I never see a 365 on the Finsbury Park/Potters Bar stopping pattern :( Wish they'd share them out! I don't think FCC are much different to WAGN. Twice on saturday lunchtimes I've had to wait for following slow (317) services because the 4 car unit was packed with Arsenal supporters (while the P'boro and Camb services whiz through with 8 cars and half empty!). I know they put on extra afternoon trains but the supporters travel early to beat the rush! Making the saturday ones and off peaks 8 cars anyway should be the norm, it won't encourage many occasional travellers out of their cars if they realise they have to stand. I guess though the weekend service is probably loss-making, they make the money during the week and it's just an inconvenience to have to run stuff weekends. D |
FCC new stock
Dave Plumb wrote:
I don't think FCC are much different to WAGN. Twice on saturday lunchtimes I've had to wait for following slow (317) services because the 4 car unit was packed with Arsenal supporters (while the P'boro and Camb services whiz through with 8 cars and half empty!). Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233 from Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20 minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following reply: - "Thank you for your email regarding your journey with us on 18 November 2006. Please accept my apologies for the difficulties you encountered whilst attempting to travel on the 1233 service and whilst actually travelling on the 1239 service between Stevenage and London Kings Cross. I am sorry for the discomfort that you experienced during the course of your journey because of the crowded conditions on the train. We want our customers to travel in comfort and appreciate the anxiety that is caused by such conditions. We aim to deploy our current fleet in the most effective way possible in order to meet the anticipated demand for each service. As many of our customers hold fully flexible tickets we cannot always provide the amount of capacity required. We seek to ensure that all our trains have at least the advertised amount of carriages and our resources are concentrated on those services that we know to be the busiest. With regards to your comments about football matches at Arsenal, we currently provide extra services on Saturdays and for week night games in order to accommodate the extra travellers, these extra trains are constantly reviewed. We welcome all feedback that we receive from our customers and each comment is used to compile regular management reports. Our managers and directors use these reports to highlight areas of our service where improvements are required. Thank you again for contacting us and I do hope that you will continue to travel with First Capital Connect in the future." Not Great, but I didn't expect much else and at least the complaint has been registered to show up on the stats. regards HN28 |
FCC new stock
Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233 from
Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20 minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following reply: I think I was on an earlier one and it still was rammed (12.29/Potters Bar). Not even a stand in first class, you physically couldn't have got on the thing! It left about 30 people behind. Their reply is fine as far as sympathy goes but short on action :( I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and weekends. I understand during peaks given available stock, paths and platform lengths overcrowding can occur and there isn't an easy or instant answer. But no excuse making people stand off peak and weekends just to help their servicing costs! These off peak and weekend people are more likely to have paid for tickets rather than commuters travelling 'for free'. Just the sort of people the railway should be nice to - those who can use alternatives, rather than commuters who are pretty much forced onto the crowded and standing-room railways with no viable alternative. D |
FCC new stock
Dave Plumb wrote:
I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and weekends. At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime. |
FCC new stock
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FCC new stock
I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it
shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and weekends. At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime. Then the rail company need to put security guards on the trains, it's not an answer to run short (packed) trains to make people feel safer. D |
FCC new stock
Funny you should mention it - happened to me this afternoon (1233
from Stevenage wedged). So on getting home, I emailed FCC and about 20 minutes ago (yes, 0030 on a Sunday morning), got the following The new timetable is out and my early morning train that isn't packed has been retimed (0656 ex Potters Bar) so that's ten minutes less in bloody bed :( The earlier fast (0649) is standing room only by the time it gets here, how can that be at 7am? Oh yes, four cars ... No trains sat/sun from 31st March too. Deep joy! As a shift worker the car is now starting to make more sense. D |
FCC new stock
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, Dave Plumb wrote:
I know short units double the fleet maintenence intervals but it shouldn't be at passenger detriment. Footy demand is easily planned and addressed but better would be make them all 8's off peak and weekends. At off-peak times, shorter trains make women and others safer from crime. Then the rail company need to put security guards on the trains, it's not an answer to run short (packed) trains to make people feel safer. Hang on, wires have become crossed here - John was making a safety objection to running long trains when they *aren't* packed, ie off-peak times when there's no football. When they are packed, long trains are just as safe from that point of view, since (i assume) the safety comes from having a sufficiently high density of bystanders to deter have-a-go villains. Indeed, when you've got football crush loads, longer trains would *increase* safety, due to less, er, crushing! Still, i agree that trains should be safe spaces for passengers, regardless of how busy they are. Bringing back guards to DOO trains, and giving them better training and support, would help in this. CCTV in all cars would be good too (do we already have this?). Another possibility might be to designate a protected carriage, perhaps the front one, which would be continuously monitored over CCTV by the driver (er, perfectly safe, i'm sure), so that if anything untoward happened, help could be summoned. tom -- If a scientist were to cut his ear off, no one would take it as evidence of heightened sensibility -- Peter Medawar |
FCC new stock
and giving them better training and support, would help in this. CCTV
in all cars would be good too (do we already have this?). Another All the FCC 317's and 313's I've been on recently have CCTV but this is more evidential after the fact rather than anyone watching it live. The reason for the 4 car presentation was given just now on uk.railway as short platforms between Royston and Cambridge affecting stoppers. Reasonable on safety grounds but surely this isn't news to the railway, it's been like that since the stations were built! D |
FCC new stock
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FCC new stock
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FCC new stock
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message ... If you are referring to the Thameslink route then the Class 319s date from the late 1980s, when they were built to replace the original BedPan electrification Class 317s (which went to what is now the Silverlink County route for a while before moving to Great Northern and more recently 'one' Railway). The 319s have never been particularly good for the job. The accommodation is cramped, the seats are way too low and far too closely fitted (I'm 6' 5" and when I sit down - in the bay seats, I can't get into the face-to-back ones - my knees are usually about two inches from the facing seat cushion). When they were running Southern, Connex managed to turn seven of these units into something quite respectable (319/2) for their Brighton Express services - the biggest difference being that they have a far better design of seat. Meanwhile, the Thameslink route operators have turned out numerous refurbishments (see the link below for the latest version) all of which have avoided doing anything about the seats, which are the single worst design feature of these units. http://timsrailpics.fotopic.net/p35508592.html I accept that the full 319/2 treatment would probably involve too great a reduction in seating capacity, but replacement of the seats with something like those that SWT and Southern are putting into their 455s would be a huge improvement. D A Stocks |
FCC new stock
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FCC new stock
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
I accept that the full 319/2 treatment would probably involve too great a reduction in seating capacity, but replacement of the seats with something like those that SWT and Southern are putting into their 455s would be a huge improvement. Are the seven 319/2 units part of Roger Ford's "Selhurst 13"? Yes. |
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