Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they terminated
at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it operationally be
too
awkward to have them reverse there?

B2003

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

In message .com, at
05:35:54 on Thu, 23 Nov 2006, Boltar remarked:
Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they terminated
at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it operationally be
too
awkward to have them reverse there?

Q1: is there the necessary pointwork
Q2: Are the 465's allowed in Snow Hill tunnel
Q3: Wouldn't it get in the way of trains headed for Moorgate
--
Roland Perry

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they terminated
at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it operationally be
too
awkward to have them reverse there?

At City Thameslink they can run into Smithfield Sidings to reverse. At
Farringdon they'd block not only following FCC trains from the south, but
also FCC trains out of Moorgate.

Peter

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Peter Masson wrote:

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they terminated
at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it operationally be
too
awkward to have them reverse there?

At City Thameslink they can run into Smithfield Sidings to reverse. At
Farringdon they'd block not only following FCC trains from the south, but
also FCC trains out of Moorgate.

True, hadn't thought about moorgate. Though when (if) thameslink 2000
ever comes about and the moorgate branch closes perhaps it might
happen.
It would certainly be a big bonus for people who use the southeastern
routes
into Blackfriars.

B2003

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

"Boltar" wrote

True, hadn't thought about moorgate. Though when (if) thameslink 2000
ever comes about and the moorgate branch closes perhaps it might
happen.
It would certainly be a big bonus for people who use the southeastern
routes
into Blackfriars.

Thameslink will be too frequent to cope with Southeastern trains beyond
Blackfriars, which will all terminate in bay platform(s) on the west side of
the station. What are the plans for the Thameslink current switchover which
now takes place at Farringdon. It was going to be moved to Blackfriars,
though ISTR the suggestion is now to change at Farringdon in one direction
and City Thameslink in the other - which would mean that 465s couldn't get
to and back from Farringdon.

Peter

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...



True, hadn't thought about moorgate. Though when (if) thameslink 2000
ever comes about and the moorgate branch closes perhaps it might
happen.
It would certainly be a big bonus for people who use the southeastern
routes
into Blackfriars.

B2003

There is the rearrangement of the lines into Blackfriars to consider, and
some of the existing southeastern and south central routes are going to
become Thameslink through routes. In the peaks the through lines north of
Blackfriars will be at full capacity, so there is probably even less
likelihood of trains from the south stopping at City Thameslink, I would
have thought...

Paul S

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Boltar wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way
to Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they
terminated at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it
operationally be too
awkward to have them reverse there?

At City Thameslink they can run into Smithfield Sidings to reverse.
At Farringdon they'd block not only following FCC trains from the
south, but also FCC trains out of Moorgate.

True, hadn't thought about moorgate. Though when (if) thameslink 2000
ever comes about and the moorgate branch closes perhaps it might
happen.
It would certainly be a big bonus for people who use the southeastern
routes
into Blackfriars.

Under TL2000, all of the trains which currently terminate at City Thameslink
will be extended to Finsbury Park and further.

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Peter Masson wrote:
Thameslink will be too frequent to cope with Southeastern trains beyond
Blackfriars, which will all terminate in bay platform(s) on the west side of
the station. What are the plans for the Thameslink current switchover which
now takes place at Farringdon. It was going to be moved to Blackfriars,

It was? Why? Can't see what benefit , plus they'd have to extend AC
overhead
through snow hill tunnel. Is there the room for it in there?

B2003

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

John Rowland wrote:
Under TL2000, all of the trains which currently terminate at City Thameslink
will be extended to Finsbury Park and further.

How, will they switch onto the GN lines at KX? Are the 319s cleared for
those
lines?

B2003

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Boltar wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
Under TL2000, all of the trains which currently terminate at City Thameslink
will be extended to Finsbury Park and further.

How, will they switch onto the GN lines at KX? Are the 319s cleared for
those
lines?

One of the major points of TL2K is to connect the GN suburban lines into
TL. The tunnel has been built as part of the general works going on at
St Pancras as we speak, and part of TL2K is to connect them up.

Robin

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Rowland wrote:
Under TL2000, all of the trains which currently terminate at City
Thameslink
will be extended to Finsbury Park and further.

How, will they switch onto the GN lines at KX? Are the 319s cleared for
those
lines?

The Thameslink project includes a connection to the Great Northern lines
from north of St Pancras Midland Road, with trains running from Southern and
Sotheastern lines to the existing Thameslink line to Bedford and Great
Northern lines to Peterborough and Kings Lynn (the Great Northern part of
the former WAGN franchise is now operated by FCC, along with the former
Thameslink franchise). The 'new' Thameslink will have a whole new fleet of
trains. It is likely that the existing Southeastern City Thameslink trains
will not be the ones projected through via Kentish Town or Finsbury Park,
rather trains from Ashford and Dartford via London Bridge.

The Thameslink proposals do involve an extension of the overhead
electrification. I am not sure why, though it may be so that it takes place
somewhere where it won't be too difficult to reverse a train or put it into
a siding (Smithfield?) if the switchover doesn't work. It seems that the
original proposal to extend it to Blackfriars has been cut back

Peter

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

In message . com, at
06:37:46 on Thu, 23 Nov 2006, Boltar remarked:
Under TL2000, all of the trains which currently terminate at City Thameslink
will be extended to Finsbury Park and further.

How, will they switch onto the GN lines at KX? Are the 319s cleared for
those lines?

TL3K will probably have to have a new set of trains anyway. The increase
in throughput can't be coped with by the current fleet.
--
Roland Perry

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

In article .com,
Boltar wrote:
Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon? Wouldn't it be more useful to commuters if they terminated
at the latter to hook up with the tube? Or would it operationally be
too
awkward to have them reverse there?

The only d.c. train ever to get as far as Farringdon (AFAIK) was a test
train run one Sunday as part of the commissioning of the Snow Hill
route. I have slides of the event. It must have thrown up some snags -
the actual start of through running was about 3 months later.

J

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Jock Mackirdy wrote:

The only d.c. train ever to get as far as Farringdon (AFAIK) was a test
train run one Sunday as part of the commissioning of the Snow Hill
route. I have slides of the event. It must have thrown up some snags -
the actual start of through running was about 3 months later.

You posted in 2000 that it was a 455 ISTR.

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Boltar wrote:
Anyone know why the Southeastern DC only class 465s sometimes
continue on to City Thameslink in the rush hour but not all the way to
Farringdon?


SET continues to run a handful of trains to City to meet legal
obligations of service replacement after closure of Holborn Viaduct.
Thats the only reason they run trains there at all.

465s are not and never have been cleared to Farringdon. There is almost
certainly a signals and telecomms interference issue with LUL lines
that is probably too expensive to resolve for the gain.

The only reason useful period to run such trains through for
connections would be in the peaks - and turning back trains in
Farringdon would gobble up too much (of the present day) capcity that
is better used by through trains. (Of course ... 365s might have fitted
the bill ... )

In answer to another comment, DC *have* run to Farringdon - with 455s.
In the very early days of the through route, 455s had to early morning
workings to Farringdon and back - one was a Sanderstead train, the
other was also from a plce being with S but I can't recall with one.

I've done one of those 455 moves myself - so I know it took place.


--
Nick

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

contrex wrote:

Jock Mackirdy wrote:

The only d.c. train ever to get as far as Farringdon


You posted in 2000 that it was a 455 ISTR.



455s were booked there daily - see my other post in thread.

--
Nick

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

Jock Mackirdy wrote:

The only d.c. train ever to get as far as Farringdon (AFAIK) was a
test train run one Sunday as part of the commissioning of the Snow
Hill route. I have slides of the event. It must have thrown up some
snags - the actual start of through running was about 3 months later.

Not necessarily... they would hardly run the test train one day before the
timetabled start of through running.

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

There is the rearrangement of the lines into Blackfriars to consider, and
some of the existing southeastern and south central routes are going to
become Thameslink through routes. In the peaks the through lines north of
Blackfriars will be at full capacity, so there is probably even less
likelihood of trains from the south stopping at City Thameslink, I would
have thought...

Paul S

Incorrect! South Eastern or Southern will not be diverting any of
it's services through the tunnel to the North. First Capital Connect
will have it's own services on the Midland and Great Northern
extended/diverted onto the Southern to places like Dartford, Ashford,
Sevenoaks, and the South Coast(Sussex)

Class 465s to Farringdon?
 

"Christine" wrote in message
...


There is the rearrangement of the lines into Blackfriars to consider, and
some of the existing southeastern and south central routes are going to
become Thameslink through routes. In the peaks the through lines north of
Blackfriars will be at full capacity, so there is probably even less
likelihood of trains from the south stopping at City Thameslink, I would
have thought...

Paul S

Incorrect! South Eastern or Southern will not be diverting any of
it's services through the tunnel to the North. First Capital Connect
will have it's own services on the Midland and Great Northern
extended/diverted onto the Southern to places like Dartford, Ashford,
Sevenoaks, and the South Coast(Sussex)

I didn't suggest Southern services would be diverted - I said Thameslink
would be providing services on some existing SE/Southern routes. It can
therefore be assumed that services on some existing routes will be converted
to Thameslink services, as there won't be paths available to simply add
extra Thameslink services...

Paul