Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the country
and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being London
Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in January, it
*would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this start? From 2nd,
I assume?

Thanks
Sam

SamB wrote:
Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the country
and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being London
Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in January, it
*would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this start? From 2nd,
I assume?

Section A of NFM 95 (which came into effect today) shows no significant
changes to the previous rules regarding travel to/from/via Farringdon,
Barbican and Moorgate, except you now use a Zone U12 add-on instead of
Zone U1 (not that will make much difference).

Cheers,

Barry

"SamB" wrote in news:1167693428.150729.159240
@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the country
and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being London
Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in January, it
*would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this start? From 2nd,
I assume?

My understanding is that from today all Zone 1 stations are equivalent
See
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...onalFares.html

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:47:23 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

SamB wrote:
Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the country
and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being London
Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in January, it
*would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this start? From 2nd,
I assume?

Section A of NFM 95 (which came into effect today) shows no significant
changes to the previous rules regarding travel to/from/via Farringdon,
Barbican and Moorgate, except you now use a Zone U12 add-on instead of
Zone U1 (not that will make much difference).

It seems from NRE
(http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...lFares.html#01)
that London Thameslink is abolished; one must ask for (and will get a
tocket to) the individual station one wants but the fare will be that
ffor travel to National Rail Zone 1. Nothing is said about whether
tickets are then valid to or from other stations in that zone or
whether the inter-availability on parallel LU lines continues.

London TravelWatch has expressed its displeasure about how this new
'zonal' fare system has been implemented without actually having zonal
tickets.

PS. NRE seems to be telling me that NR tickets are valid from
Farringdon to Moorgate on NR trains but not LU trains. If true, it
strikes me as unenforceable.
--
Peter Lawrence

"Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)" wrote
My understanding is that from today all Zone 1 stations are equivalent
See
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...onalFares.html

What do you mean by 'equivalent'? Have you read the answer to 'what sort of
ticket do I ask for'?

Peter Lawrence wrote:

It seems from NRE
(http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...lFares.html#01)
that London Thameslink is abolished; one must ask for (and will get a
tocket to) the individual station one wants but the fare will be that
ffor travel to National Rail Zone 1. Nothing is said about whether
tickets are then valid to or from other stations in that zone or
whether the inter-availability on parallel LU lines continues.

Bah! I was hoping that I'd finally be able to get a London Terminals to
KXT, and then get the train home from Charing Cross (which you could do
in the past if you didn't get caught, as the gates would accept it...).

I guess I'll see what the machine at Brockley spits at me... I'm not
holding my breath for it to be anything sensible, as anyone who
remembers my grumbles about its previous issues with Thameslink will
know...

Sam

On 1 Jan 2007 15:17:08 -0800, "SamB" wrote:

Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the country
and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being London
Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in January, it
*would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this start? From 2nd,
I assume?

Not quite correct I'm afraid. The change does apply from today. The fare
to each station in Zone 1 will be the same from say Haywards Heath.
However you must purchase a ticket to your destination station and
cannot use it to a station further on even if the fare is the same. For
example a ticket issued to Farringdon cannot be used to Kings Cross
Thameslink even though the fare will be the same. If you did travel
beyond Farringdon and encountered a ticket inspection you would be
subject to an excess / penalty fare (I don't know if Penalty Fares
operate on Thameslink or not).

This was the explanation provided by Barry Doe in Rail magazine. IMO
it's a rather nasty and deceptive tactic by FCC - why on earth they have
made things more complicated than before rather than give passengers
what would be convenient I do not know. They will have to do so
eventually when full zonal fares integration arrives and they have to
adopt PAYG.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

Not quite correct I'm afraid. The change does apply from today. The fare
to each station in Zone 1 will be the same from say Haywards Heath.
However you must purchase a ticket to your destination station and
cannot use it to a station further on even if the fare is the same. For
example a ticket issued to Farringdon cannot be used to Kings Cross
Thameslink even though the fare will be the same. If you did travel
beyond Farringdon and encountered a ticket inspection you would be
subject to an excess / penalty fare (I don't know if Penalty Fares
operate on Thameslink or not).

Thanks Paul. And yeah, they do operate a Penalty Fares system, which I
was caught out by on this very issue in the past, hence asking

In article , x
com (Paul Corfield) wrote:

On 1 Jan 2007 15:17:08 -0800, "SamB"
wrote:

Sorry to bring this topic up yet again! Have been out of the
country and therefore a bit out of the loop.

I know that there were all the problems with KXT, and not being
London Terminals from the south, etc etc. I also read that, in
January, it *would* be classed as London Terminals. When does this
start? From 2nd, I assume?

Not quite correct I'm afraid. The change does apply from today. The
fare to each station in Zone 1 will be the same from say Haywards Heath


Are you sure? See below.

However you must purchase a ticket to your destination station and
cannot use it to a station further on even if the fare is the same.
For example a ticket issued to Farringdon cannot be used to Kings Cross
Thameslink even though the fare will be the same. If you did travel
beyond Farringdon and encountered a ticket inspection you would be
subject to an excess / penalty fare (I don't know if Penalty Fares
operate on Thameslink or not).

This was the explanation provided by Barry Doe in Rail magazine.
IMO it's a rather nasty and deceptive tactic by FCC - why on earth they

have made things more complicated than before rather than give
passengers what would be convenient I do not know. They will have to
do so eventually when full zonal fares integration arrives and they
have to adopt PAYG.

None of this lifts the confusion over the right ticket for my saver
return, starting from a Southern station and returning to KX TL.
Presumably there isn't an FCC-only ticket at a higher price any more? The
ATOC web page says nothing about savers.

laterEek! Now the TL-Brighton saver return is cheaper than a Victoria
Brighton saver return (15.85 to 16.45 with Network Card discount)! I hope
this is all clear by next September.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:14:32 GMT, Peter Lawrence wrote:

It seems from NRE
(http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...lFares.html#01)
that London Thameslink is abolished; one must ask for (and will get a
tocket to) the individual station one wants but the fare will be that
ffor travel to National Rail Zone 1

I don't think it's entirely clear that London Thameslink is abolished.
For a start, fares from stations between Radlett and Bedford to London
Thameslink seem to be outside the scope of the document. And I take
what it says about fares being issued to individual stations to mean
that they're retrofitting the zonal structure to the existing fares
system (in other words, keeping the point-to-point fares but adjusting
all the prices of those fares to what they would be if they were
zonal), rather than that they're eradicating all existing fare
destinations that don't consist of a single named station. So I'd
expect London Thameslink, having existed as a destination before the
change, to survive.

Nothing is said about whether
tickets are then valid to or from other stations in that zone

Yes it does (if, as you're assuming, they're issued to a named
station), and the answer is no. Example:

"SINGLE: Valid at any time for travel between any two named National
Rail stations in the London Fare Zones area."

PS. NRE seems to be telling me that NR tickets are valid from
Farringdon to Moorgate on NR trains but not LU trains. If true, it
strikes me as unenforceable.

Unless something has changed, they are, provided they're not marked
"FCC Only" or "Not Underground" or similar.