http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_t...n_inc_reps.jsp

Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject headers
refer to the Mil-lemon.

The only way out of this black hole is to restore vertically integrated
railways with engineering cpability and an incremental approach to technical
development.

DW


"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
...
: http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_t...n_inc_reps.jsp
:
:

"David Winter"
wrote in message ...
Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
headers
refer to the Mil-lemon.

The only way out of this black hole is to restore vertically
integrated
railways with engineering cpability and an incremental approach to
technical
development.

But a vertically integrated railway is now effectively forbidden
within the EU.

David Winter writes
Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
headers refer to the Mil-lemon.

One thing about CityRail is that they appear to be a lot more up-front
in discussing the various problems affecting the 'Millennium Train'.

http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_train/index.jsp

--
Dave

Stimpy writes
But a vertically integrated railway is now effectively forbidden within
the EU.

Nonsense, utter nonsense.

--
Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
David Winter writes
Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
headers refer to the Mil-lemon.

One thing about CityRail is that they appear to be a lot more up-front
in discussing the various problems affecting the 'Millennium Train'.

http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_train/index.jsp

One thing that's clear is that names like the Millennium Train and
Thameslink 2000 are just asking for trouble ...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:16:39 +0100 in uk.transport.london, "Stimpy"
tapped out on the keyboard:


"David Winter"
wrote in message ...
Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
headers
refer to the Mil-lemon.

The only way out of this black hole is to restore vertically
integrated
railways with engineering cpability and an incremental approach to
technical
development.

But a vertically integrated railway is now effectively forbidden
within the EU.


If you mean by that a railway where only one operator is allowed, then yes,
vertical integration is ruled out except for urban or suburban lines - see
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923060_en_1.htm


--
John Youles Norwich England UK
j dot y.o.u.l.e.s at n.t.l.w.o.r.l.d dot c.o.m
http://www.ukip.org/

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:53:29 +0100, "Ed Crowley"
wrote:

http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_t...n_inc_reps.jsp

sounds to me like the commissioning and testing process wasn't terribly
robust and there was some form of pressure to get the trains into
service for a date or event that meant they weren't "shaken down"
properly to avoid those sorts of serious failure. An easy position to
get into and a bloody hard one to get out of.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:17:20 +0100 John Youles wrote:
} On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:16:39 +0100 in uk.transport.london, "Stimpy"
} tapped out on the keyboard:
}
}
} "David Winter"
} wrote in message ...
} Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
} headers
} refer to the Mil-lemon.
}
} The only way out of this black hole is to restore vertically
} integrated
} railways with engineering cpability and an incremental approach to
} technical
} development.
}
} But a vertically integrated railway is now effectively forbidden
} within the EU.
}
}
} If you mean by that a railway where only one operator is allowed, then yes,
} vertical integration is ruled out except for urban or suburban lines - see
} http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923060_en_1.htm

I don't get that from the statutory instrument you point to:

5.(1) Any railway undertaking which is also an infrastructure manager
shall

(a) prepare and maintain accounts for business relating to the
provision of transport services which are separate from its
accounts for business relating to the management of railway
infrastructure; and

(b) ensure that there is no transfer of state aid granted
to the undertaking between the provision of transport
services and the management of railway infrastructure.

The rest concerns non-UK TOCs seeking paths on UK infrastructure.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:15:01 +0000 (UTC) in uk.transport.london, Matthew
Malthouse tapped out on the keyboard:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:17:20 +0100 John Youles wrote:
} On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:16:39 +0100 in uk.transport.london, "Stimpy"
} tapped out on the keyboard:
}
}
} "David Winter"
} wrote in message ...
} Go to aus.rail for a blow by blow commentary by locals. Some subject
} headers
} refer to the Mil-lemon.
}
} The only way out of this black hole is to restore vertically
} integrated
} railways with engineering cpability and an incremental approach to
} technical
} development.
}
} But a vertically integrated railway is now effectively forbidden
} within the EU.
}
}
} If you mean by that a railway where only one operator is allowed, then yes,
} vertical integration is ruled out except for urban or suburban lines - see
} http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923060_en_1.htm

I don't get that from the statutory instrument you point to:

5.(1) Any railway undertaking which is also an infrastructure manager
shall

(a) prepare and maintain accounts for business relating to the
provision of transport services which are separate from its
accounts for business relating to the management of railway
infrastructure; and

(b) ensure that there is no transfer of state aid granted
to the undertaking between the provision of transport
services and the management of railway infrastructure.

The rest concerns non-UK TOCs seeking paths on UK infrastructure.

"Access and transit rights
8.—(1) Any international grouping may apply to any infrastructure manager—
(a) in the case of a grouping which includes a railway undertaking established
in the United Kingdom for such access and transit rights; or
(b) in the case of any other grouping, for such transit rights,
as may be necessary for the provision of international services between the
member States where the undertakings constituting the grouping are established.

(2) Any railway undertaking established or to be established in a member
State other than the United Kingdom may apply to any infrastructure manager for
the grant of such access and transit rights as may be necessary for the purpose
of the operation of international combined transport goods services.

etc."

i.e. not just non-UK TOCs.


--
John Youles Norwich England UK
j dot y.o.u.l.e.s at n.t.l.w.o.r.l.d dot c.o.m
http://www.ukip.org/