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Clive D. W. Feather wrote: In article , Paul Corfield writes I've had almost the same reaction on telling people I went on the Subway in New York to Brooklyn. "You did what? Do you know how dangerous that is?" "Err, I am standing here and am still alive to tell the tale. It wasn't that bad." I had something similar some years ago from a New Yorker friend: "What did you do yesterday evening?" I tell him "You rode ... on the subway ... for *FUN*?!?!" [I had a local enthusiast as a guide, but I'd got to NY for both evenings via local train in New Jersey and then PATH.] It might have been what they considered your odd choice of leisure activity, rather than concerns for your personal security, that elicited that type of response! I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Very true. And then there's the Bucuresti trams. And, some years ago, the Leningrad trolleybuses. 4 kopeks flat fare, with an "honesty box" for payment. Did you manage to gauge how honest passengers were? |
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In article , Tim Fenton
writes The Rough Guides concluded some time ago that the top of their 10 sights for Lisbon was to ride the 28 tram. However, they seem to have something against the 46 (IIRC) bus in Rome. The description - repeated more than once - says it's only used by perverts and pickpockets. I'm wondering if one of their investigators got groped. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:25:22 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Paul Corfield wrote: the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Ah yes. I understand that the Japanese have some novel ideas about the relationship between rolling stock and permanent way: http://urchin.earth.li/photopub/disp...&thumb=640x640 VBG -- Paul C |
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On 15 Jan 2007 17:48:36 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: Paul Corfield wrote: Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) It is - but it feels very, very safe (as does the whole city for its size). Oh completely agreed even when as a westerner you stand out like a sore thumb amongst the huge crowds of Japanese. Wonderfully friendly and helpful people too who will always make an effort even when the language differences mean you don't stand a chance of having any sort of conversation. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:46:27 +0000, asdf
wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:49:59 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote: Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Perhaps LU could pick up a few tips on how to get that extra bit of capacity out of the system? ;-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott-5...n/set-1713171/ There are some other good pictures in that series. Having looked at the comments there are some YouTube links and this shows the early rush hour apparently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9E7J7MLko4&NR as it's not very busy. I never used the subway at rush hour but did have to use a JR train from Shinjuku to Ikebukuro. That was an experience - especially as I had luggage! Ikebukuro is also the busiest or second busiest (I forget which) station in Tokyo - I don't think I have ever seen quite so many people in what is not a huge amount of space. Still it's all very well organised and the commuters are all very compliant so it works. I'm not at all sure that London would tolerate quite the same conditions as Tokyo although I appreciate it's not far off in a number of places. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:10:21 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes I've had almost the same reaction on telling people I went on the Subway in New York to Brooklyn. "You did what? Do you know how dangerous that is?" "Err, I am standing here and am still alive to tell the tale. It wasn't that bad." We had exactly the same reaction when we were in New York. I've been twice and on neither occasion did I feel any more unsafe than I would have done on the Tube. In fact I felt safer than on some Birmingham buses at night! (Though the Birmingham Metro, with a conductor always present feels especially safe late at night.) Well a friend and I even used the late night subway service to get from a bar in the lower east side back to the hotel near Madison Square Garden. The system was very quiet but it seemed an eminently sensible way to get around. Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - Yes and I feel the same about that, however bizarre that might seem to you reading this here. Not at all bizarre. If you're interested in a place or the people then the best way to experience it is to put yourself in a position where you might "collide" with day to day life. Strange things can happen but generally human kindness shines through despite language and cultural differences. In mitigation, I can tell you that I try very hard when showing people London (or anywhere else) to talk a lot about life there, experiences, background and so on and not just - say - history. But using a real transport system is a great way to see somewhere. My interest in trams has taken me to some very surprising bits of actually rather famous cities over the years! Well trams are a great way to see a city as their permanence gives an added reassurance to getting about with some confidence. Passenger information is also usually a bit better which helps as well. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:47:48 -0000, "Tim Fenton"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . I've had almost the same reaction on telling people I went on the Subway in New York to Brooklyn. "You did what? Do you know how dangerous that is?" "Err, I am standing here and am still alive to tell the tale. It wasn't that bad." My fellow pax on the flight to Porto were genuinely concerned at my decision to travel into the centre by Metro. I suspect that when I get round to revisiting Berlin, there will be more concerned pax urging that I avoid the S-Bahn. How else does one travel into the centre? I was in Singapore over Christmas and I opted to use the MRT into town. I knew where my hotel was so accepted there was a walk the other end plus a change of line in the centre. However I figured without the bizarre set up whereby the Airport line is operated entirely as a stub branch with no through trains. The Airport station itself was huge and visually stunning. Getting a smartcard ticket was fine but there was nothing to suggest there was no direct service. I should also mention that the MRT only serves Terminal 2 so I'd already had a trek from one terminal to another to even find the station. Still off we went and two stops further on most of the passengers get off - I assumed they were changing to take the other branch of the East West line. A train for that direction arrived but no one moved and it was at this point that I realised my train was going no further. I then got off and waited for the connection to town. This, of course, was busy so it was stand the whole way and it got progressively busier and busier and my connecting train was very busy too. Singapore do not manage the HK trick which is to schedule trains at certain points so that the cross platform interchange is out of one train and straight into a waiting / arriving train. MRT services seem designed to just miss each other which was also very frustrating. Needless to say on the way back to the airport I took a taxi! Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) The Rough Guides concluded some time ago that the top of their 10 sights for Lisbon was to ride the 28 tram. The description started "Avoid guided tours". Not done Lisbon yet but I know a fair bit about the tram system and it's clearly an experience not to be missed - despite the modernisation and upgrading that is going on. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:05:57 +0000, Dave A wrote:
I think the economics of accessible buses actually stack up quite well. There's no additional procurement cost beyond that of replacing aging vehicles, because new vehicles are low-floor as standard anyway. Meanwhile, provision of "free taxi rides" was essentially done via the Dial-a-Ride service, which is extremely expensive (per passenger-km) to run. Having the mainstream bus fleet accessible to wheelchair users will *save* TfL money with lower demand for Dial-a-Ride. Additionally, low-floor buses are much more attractive to customers with prams, pushchairs and heavy luggage, and so will attract more custom from those groups, further enhancing the business case. The economics of step-free access to the Underground are somewhat different because of the capital cost involved. Given that, step-free access is usually incorporated into rebuilds that would have happened anyway, and as with buses, new custom does not just come from wheelchair users but also from those with prams, pushchairs, luggage etc. An interesting overview. I'm almost tempted to post this to a non usenet group to watch it be torn to shreds by the anti TfL, anti low floor bus brigade but I won't. I'm not sure I could cope with the mental stress and you won't be able to enjoy the fun ;-) -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On 16 Jan 2007 04:40:10 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather wrote: snip Very true. And then there's the Bucuresti trams. And, some years ago, the Leningrad trolleybuses. 4 kopeks flat fare, with an "honesty box" for payment. Did you manage to gauge how honest passengers were? If it was in the "good old days" there was probably someone else already doing that. |
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Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:46:27 +0000, asdf wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:49:59 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote: Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Perhaps LU could pick up a few tips on how to get that extra bit of capacity out of the system? ;-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott-5...n/set-1713171/ There are some other good pictures in that series. Having looked at the comments there are some YouTube links and this shows the early rush hour apparently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9E7J7MLko4&NR as it's not very busy. I never used the subway at rush hour but did have to use a JR train from Shinjuku to Ikebukuro. That was an experience - especially as I had luggage! Ikebukuro is also the busiest or second busiest (I forget which) station in Tokyo - I don't think I have ever seen quite so many people in what is not a huge amount of space. Still it's all very well organised and the commuters are all very compliant so it works. I'm not at all sure that London would tolerate quite the same conditions as Tokyo although I appreciate it's not far off in a number of places. That's pretty busy. That said getting on some bendy-buses in the early evening peak isn't dissimilar! |
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Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:25:22 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Paul Corfield wrote: the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Ah yes. I understand that the Japanese have some novel ideas about the relationship between rolling stock and permanent way: http://urchin.earth.li/photopub/disp...&thumb=640x640 VBG Ditto. Splendid! |
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Ian Jelf wrote:
Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice. By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! -- Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________ |
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On 16 Jan 2007 10:31:19 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: Having looked at the comments there are some YouTube links and this shows the early rush hour apparently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9E7J7MLko4&NR as it's not very busy. That's pretty busy. That said getting on some bendy-buses in the early evening peak isn't dissimilar! I'm impressed by all the boarding passengers going nowhere near the doors until everyone trying to get off has got off. |
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Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:05:57 +0000, Dave A wrote: I think the economics of accessible buses actually stack up quite well. There's no additional procurement cost beyond that of replacing aging vehicles, because new vehicles are low-floor as standard anyway. Meanwhile, provision of "free taxi rides" was essentially done via the Dial-a-Ride service, which is extremely expensive (per passenger-km) to run. Having the mainstream bus fleet accessible to wheelchair users will *save* TfL money with lower demand for Dial-a-Ride. Additionally, low-floor buses are much more attractive to customers with prams, pushchairs and heavy luggage, and so will attract more custom from those groups, further enhancing the business case. The economics of step-free access to the Underground are somewhat different because of the capital cost involved. Given that, step-free access is usually incorporated into rebuilds that would have happened anyway, and as with buses, new custom does not just come from wheelchair users but also from those with prams, pushchairs, luggage etc. An interesting overview. I'm almost tempted to post this to a non usenet group to watch it be torn to shreds by the anti TfL, anti low floor bus brigade but I won't. I'm not sure I could cope with the mental stress and you won't be able to enjoy the fun ;-) If I'm missing something, please let me know... (although not in some TfL-baiting arena!) -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield writes I've had almost the same reaction on telling people I went on the Subway in New York to Brooklyn. "You did what? Do you know how dangerous that is?" "Err, I am standing here and am still alive to tell the tale. It wasn't that bad." We had exactly the same reaction when we were in New York. I've been twice and on neither occasion did I feel any more unsafe than I would have done on the Tube. When i was in New York, i went on the following little trip: 7 train from Manhattan to Shea Stadium; said goodbye to my friends who were going to see the tennis and walked into Flushing in search of Chinese food; having found it, and a local burger place i can't honestly recommend, walked back, and then along the length of Flushing Meadows, getting lost in Kew Gardens Hills on the way (and passing an enormous rail depot of some sort) and eventually found Briarwood Van Wyck Boulevard station; sat there for a while waiting for an E train towards Jamaica before getting round to reading the small print on the map and realising that it wasn't going to come; walked out and down to Sutphin Boulevard station, and caught a J train; changed at Broadway Junction (an amazing station!) onto the A, and rode it to Hoyt Schermerhorn; walked around the Fulton Street mall and environs, ate cheesecake, bought a couple of T-shirts in Modell's (one of which has now fallen to bits); somehow got back to east 66th street - i think it wasn't via the 4 from Borough Hall, but rather the 2 or 3 to Times Square, so i could have a go on the shuttle to Grand Central and then get the 6 home! Anyway, should i have been afraid? I was a bit worried when i was lost in Kew Gardens, since i was off the edge of all my maps, but it seemed like a nice area, and i knew roughly where i was heading, so wasn't afraid as such. I managed to walk through a couple of motorway junctions on the way (these seem to be a popular feature of New York parks!), which didn't make things any easier. Brooklyn itself was fine - felt rather like Brixton, actually, far more London-like than any other part of New York (although the scabby northern end of Broadway had something of the Seven Sisters Road to it). Still I don't believe in "doing a city" by going round in an air conditioned tourist coach. I think it adds to the experience to travel about how the residents do - But using a real transport system is a great way to see somewhere. My interest in trams has taken me to some very surprising bits of actually rather famous cities over the years! I strongly agree - in any metropolis, the transport network (which means trains and trams in all but pathological or utopian cases) is the veins and arteries of the city, and tells you more about how it lives and breathes than anything you'll see in a coach. tom -- MADSKILLZ! |
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Mizter T wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:25:22 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Paul Corfield wrote: the Tokyo rail system is certainly an experience ;-) Ah yes. I understand that the Japanese have some novel ideas about the relationship between rolling stock and permanent way: http://urchin.earth.li/photopub/disp...&thumb=640x640 VBG Ditto. Splendid! Can't take the credit for it, but will pass on the love! tom -- MADSKILLZ! |
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The Rough Guides concluded some time ago that the top of their 10 sights for
Lisbon was to ride the 28 tram. The description started "Avoid guided tours". Ahem! bg Not done Lisbon yet but I know a fair bit about the tram system and it's clearly an experience not to be missed - despite the modernisation and upgrading that is going on. The 12 and even more so the 28 are truly, truly amazing experiences. Any lover of trams must make the pilgrimage to Lisbon. I've not done it for some years but we fully intend to go back in the not-too-distant future, all being well. As an aside, it's a truly delightful delightful City anyway. -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
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Tom Anderson wrote:
I strongly agree - in any metropolis, the transport network (which means trains and trams in all but pathological or utopian cases) is the veins and arteries of the city, and tells you more about how it lives and breathes than anything you'll see in a coach. In many cities, it's the buses as well. Bangkok, for example, doesn't really have an integrated transport system, but rather it has the Skytrain and underground for the rich, and the buses for the poor. KL can be similar at times, though it's quite a bit more developed. In both cases, if you can work out where they're going, you'll meet the *real* people on the buses. I'd say the same thing about travelling by train in these countries. First class is nice and cheap, but only in third class will you get a *real* feel for the place. Neil |
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In message
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote: In article , Tim Fenton writes The Rough Guides concluded some time ago that the top of their 10 sights for Lisbon was to ride the 28 tram. However, they seem to have something against the 46 (IIRC) bus in Rome. The description - repeated more than once - says it's only used by perverts and pickpockets. I'm wondering if one of their investigators got groped. I first visited Rome around 1978 (via Laker!) and we were warned about one particular bus-route for the same reasons. Presumably the same route. -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
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"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ... The Rough Guides concluded some time ago that the top of their 10 sights for Lisbon was to ride the 28 tram. However, they seem to have something against the 46 (IIRC) bus in Rome. The description - repeated more than once - says it's only used by perverts and pickpockets. I'm wondering if one of their investigators got groped. Not the 64, Clive? That passes the front of Stazione Termini and terminates near the Vatican. Much used by tourists. Way back in the 60s it was worked by double deckers. -- Tim "Can capitalism survive? No, I do not think it can" - Josef Schumpeter |
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Harry G wrote:
I saw an interesting programme about the South Ferry 1 line terminal reconstruction on a cable channel here the other night - amazed that such a cramped and awkward operating layout has survived until now. It is somewhat cramped. But as far as train movements go, it's incredibly efficient. It can easily handle 30 tph; the only reason service only runs at 20 tph is that the north terminal, at the other end of the line, can't handle anymore, and NYCT is generally highly allergic to short turns (although there are two stations where alternate trains could be easily turned). While the claim has been made that the new terminal will support 24 tph, that's still substantially less than the current 30 tph, and the documents released to the public justifying the new terminal don't justify the 24 tph claim. In fact, based on the track diagrams, it looks very much like the Jamaica Center terminal on the E, which can only handle 12 tph, except that Jamaica Center has longer tail tracks. So some of us are quite concerned with the possible repercussions of this expensive reconstruction. And before anyone suggests that reduced service will be adequate once all ten cars can platform at South Ferry, it turns out that the busiest part of the line is nowhere near South Ferry. This post from 2002 gives 1999 ridership counts (turnstile entries) along the 1 line, excluding transfer points to other lines (but including several express stations also served by the 2 and 3): http://groups.google.com/group/nyc.t...23b9e388bd967b Since 1999, ridership has increased at most stations, although South Ferry is one of the few exceptions -- by 2004, ridership had dropped to 3,382,813. As these numbers reveal, the most crowded part of the line is the section between Times Square and 137th Street. And as a daily rider of that section of the line, I can say that trains are already overcrowded; we badly need more service, not less. Also, bear in mind that the typical subway station in New York is a modest affair. Typically, several sidewalk staircases lead either directly to the platform or first to an intermediate mezzanine. Station buildings are uncommon. From this I guess that the track layouts, connections and switches on the NY Subway are more like a tramway (with many connections not used for normal service) rather than the London Underground (with relative rare non-service connections between lines) - I can't imagine LU being able to operate anywhere near this sort of revised service. That's an interesting analogy, although London's subsurface lines are quite similar. It's only the deep tube lines that are effectively isolated from each other. Here are some (slightly out-of-date) track maps for New York, incidentally: http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track.html The most unusual diversion I can think of is when Bakerloo line (Stanmore branch) services were diverted over the Metropolitan line south of Finchley Road into the terminal platforms at Baker Street - this would have been around 1975/6, when the junctions for the future Jubilee line were being constructed. Tube trains at the terminal platforms at Baker Street? I hope somebody took pictures! One that I just noticed for the Northern line, King's Cross southbound: "Euston (To Picc.) Bank Branch" (which I am sure is not in public service, and probably would just be described as 'Not in Service' on the platform!) I've caught that system claiming that the next southbound train at Archway was 2 minutes away, between Golders Green and Hampstead. -- David of Broadway New York, NY, USA |
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Tom Anderson wrote:
7 train from Manhattan to Shea Stadium; said goodbye to my friends who were going to see the tennis and walked into Flushing in search of Chinese food; having found it, and a local burger place i can't honestly recommend, walked back, and then along the length of Flushing Meadows, getting lost in Kew Gardens Hills on the way (and passing an enormous rail depot of some sort) and eventually found Briarwood Van Wyck Boulevard station; sat there for a while waiting for an E train towards Jamaica before getting round to reading the small print on the map and realising that it wasn't going to come; walked out and down to Sutphin Boulevard station, and caught a J train; changed at Broadway Junction (an amazing station!) onto the A, and rode it to Hoyt Schermerhorn; walked around the Fulton Street mall and environs, ate cheesecake, bought a couple of T-shirts in Modell's (one of which has now fallen to bits); somehow got back to east 66th street - i think it wasn't via the 4 from Borough Hall, but rather the 2 or 3 to Times Square, so i could have a go on the shuttle to Grand Central and then get the 6 home! Not bad! That enormous rail depot was (the badly misnamed) Jamaica Yard, home to the R-32 and R-46 cars used on the E, F, G, R, and V trains. You could have taken the F train to Sutphin Boulevard. It's a different station, but it's only a few blocks away from the E/J/Z station. Did you look out the railfan window (the window at the front of the train) at all? That's something that isn't possible in London except on DLR. (It won't be possible in New York for much longer either, since the older 60-foot rolling stock is about to be replaced, and in a few years nearly every train will have a transverse cab at either end.) Anyway, should i have been afraid? No, although I probably wouldn't have gone for a long walk in an unfamiliar city without a map. Probably the most dangerous area you were in was the Broadway Junction area, but you were inside a busy subway station, so I wouldn't have been concerned. (Speaking of Broadway Junction, did you see the rail yard off to the right of the J train? That's East New York Yard, home to the R-42 and R-143 cars used on the J/Z, M, and L trains.) I was a bit worried when i was lost in Kew Gardens, since i was off the edge of all my maps, but it seemed like a nice area, and i knew roughly where i was heading, so wasn't afraid as such. I managed to walk through a couple of motorway junctions on the way (these seem to be a popular feature of New York parks!), which didn't make things any easier. This one, most likely: http://www.empirestateroads.com/week/week32.html Robert Moses, NYC Parks Commissioner for most of the middle of the 20th Century, also built nearly all of NYC's highways. Brooklyn itself was fine - felt rather like Brixton, actually, far more London-like than any other part of New York (although the scabby northern end of Broadway had something of the Seven Sisters Road to it). The scabby northern end of Broadway? Are you referring to Broadway Junction or to the much more famous Broadway, the one that runs up the length of Manhattan and continues into the Bronx (and, arguably, beyond)? -- David of Broadway New York, NY, USA |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & DiscountLondon Bus Pass)
By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? Thanks Martin |
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Martin Krieger wrote:
By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? As it happens I was on a 73 bendy-bus travelling from Oxford Street to Victoria on Friday, and the driver announced every stop over the PA. Messages such as "Anyone for Bond Street station or Selfridges, you want the next stop". Very helpful, and it should be more common. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
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Martin Krieger wrote:
By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? Thanks Martin Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus project. See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp |
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On 21 Jan 2007 05:33:35 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Martin Krieger wrote: By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? Thanks Martin Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus project. See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & DiscountLondon Bus Pass)
Mizter T wrote:
Martin Krieger wrote: By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus project. See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp Which is a shame. The Las Vegas Double Decker 'Deuce' buses have jovial announcements from the drivers at all stops despite being incredible congested and full. Incidentally these buses are made in the UK but offer a much superior comfort and equipmet level than anything from TFL. mysteryflyer |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
James Farrar wrote:
On 21 Jan 2007 05:33:35 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote: Martin Krieger wrote: By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker! One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? Thanks Martin Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus project. See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. In Paris, you get a scrolling dot-matrix display showing the name of the next or current stop, the destination, and estimated times in minutes to the destination and an important intermediate stop. The only audio announcement is of the name of the next stop just before you reach it. Very useful indeed, and certainly not an assault. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
"Richard J." wrote in news:0HOsh.113595
: James Farrar wrote: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you? I think the Plaistow/Playstow has now been ironed out, but the inappropriate inflexions still grate. |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
On 21 Jan 2007 05:33:35 -0800, Mizter T wrote:
Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and inspect tickets is considered unfeasable Bus drivers in Oslo do all this. Seems to work well. The future, however, is automated stop anouncements that use GPS. We have this on some lines here in Kristiansand. -- jhk |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. On the 35, for every stop they announce 'bus stopping at the next bus stop, please stand well clear of doors', which gets on your nerves pretty soon - and seems unnecessary since there's an audible beep when the stop button is pressed anyway. If they restrict the announcement to 'next stop camberwell green' or whatever then no problem, but I expect more long-winded verbiage... |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote: "Richard J." wrote in news:0HOsh.113595 : James Farrar wrote: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you? I think the Plaistow/Playstow has now been ironed out, It has, but the Bakerloo line gets Marylebone wrong. but the inappropriate inflexions still grate. The new Central line is worse than the one it replaced, and the new Piccadilly line one is dreadful. |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London B
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Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:47:37 +0100, Martin Krieger wrote:
One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost. Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any special reason for not doing it? ISTR being on an 18 about ten years ago which had a dot matrix display showing the name of the next stop. |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & DiscountLondon Bus Pass)
James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0600, "Tristán White" wrote: "Richard J." wrote in news:0HOsh.113595 : On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you? I think the Plaistow/Playstow has now been ironed out, It has, but the Bakerloo line gets Marylebone wrong. Btw, what is really the correct pronounciation of Marylebone? Most people I hear pronounce it "marlebn" (or something like that) but almost all encyclopaedias etc that I have checked suggest something like "mary-lee-bn"... The Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marylebone mention both, the former is said to be some "common" pronounciation while the latter variant is said to be correct according to "Marylebone Association". but the inappropriate inflexions still grate. The new Central line is worse than the one it replaced, and the new Piccadilly line one is dreadful. The DLR is IMHO even worse, maybe worst of all. It sounds far too robot-like and in addition a very compressed voice. -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: http://here.is/olof |
Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London B
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Anouncements on bus (was Cross-London Bus Transfer & Discount London Bus Pass)
James Farrar wrote in
: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0600, "Tristán White" wrote: "Richard J." wrote in news:0HOsh.113595 : James Farrar wrote: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: James Farrar wrote: Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults. It needn't be. Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are, whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate timing of announcements or bad production techniques. On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you? I think the Plaistow/Playstow has now been ironed out, It has, but the Bakerloo line gets Marylebone wrong. but the inappropriate inflexions still grate. The new Central line is worse than the one it replaced, and the new Piccadilly line one is dreadful. There's a few really annoying inflexions - I can't remember where they are as I try and eliminate them from my memory. Could Epping be one? I seem to remember being on the Central line and hearing at every stop "This train terminates at..." and then this strange way of saying "Epping" almost like she was suddenly asking a question. "Neasden" on the Jubilee line is annoying as hell. She doesn't mispronounce it, but it sounds like she has a gun to her head because the previous ten times she did mispronounce it. It's just a tad louder than the rest, with the s in the middle pronounced like a few zzz and really clearly as though her life depended on it. when the JL terminates there and you are listening to it at every stop .... this train terminates at NEEEEZDN ... it's almost equivalent to torture. No wonder so many people listen to their iPods at full whack.... |
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