Larry Lard wrote:
Dave A wrote:
brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound
trains arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated
about 1,000 passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in
the morning peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of
passengers to seats). Whilst this isn't as high as some LU and other
NR routes, I think it indicates a strong underlying demand given the
relatively poor and uneven frequency.

Well it's their manor I guess, but my experiences a couple of years ago
of the morning peak from Clapham Junction northbound were of loading
factors considerably higher than that - 'full, standing, and
complaining' as they used to say in BR days!

The figure I quoted is an average over the entire 3-hour morning peak
from 0700 to 1000, so I imagine, as you experienced, that load factors
will be considerably higher for services in the core hour from 0800-0900
(and commensurately lower for the shoulder peaks).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

brixtonite wrote:

Dave A wrote:


Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

I'm not surprised by how busy the WLL is - it's a very useful link
after all! It would be useful if it were more frequent - though I'd say
4tph is the minimum for a turn up and go service rather than 6tph (that
said in the evening the NLL has 3tph i.e. a 20 minute frequency but it
still seems to be treated by many as turn up and go then).

I do have to say that, if you're an able bodied person, Clapham
Junction to Shepherd's Bush is a really easy journey to make even at
the moment - the Bush is a short (five to ten minute) walk up the road
from Kensington Olympia. This does make it less attractive as an
interchange point (though it's not something I'd baulk at) but as a way
of getting to Shepherd's Bush, Olympia is easy enough. Of course this
will all change shortly.

Mizter T wrote:
brixtonite wrote:

Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).


That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

I'm not surprised by how busy the WLL is - it's a very useful link
after all! It would be useful if it were more frequent - though I'd say
4tph is the minimum for a turn up and go service rather than 6tph (that
said in the evening the NLL has 3tph i.e. a 20 minute frequency but it
still seems to be treated by many as turn up and go then).

I do have to say that, if you're an able bodied person, Clapham
Junction to Shepherd's Bush is a really easy journey to make even at
the moment - the Bush is a short (five to ten minute) walk up the road
from Kensington Olympia. This does make it less attractive as an
interchange point (though it's not something I'd baulk at) but as a way
of getting to Shepherd's Bush, Olympia is easy enough. Of course this
will all change shortly.

A reasonably number of people already walk up to the Bush from Olympia
(five minutes is painfully optimistic; I leave 11 minutes to get there
at a reasonable pace), and there is a shuttle bus from Olympia to the
BBC at White City for employees. Some people also head towards
Hammersmith from Olympia - there are quite a few offices along
Hammersmith Road.

It's all very well to get to the Green itself, but for other parts of
the Bush - particularly White City - walking from Olympia is not a
popular option and there are no buses (buses at Olympia are a couple of
minutes' walk from the platforms anyway and are mainly useful for
getting to Hammersmith; Shepherd's Bush is usually quicker to walk to,
and Kensington High St, Earl's Court and West Kensington can be reached
more easily via West Brompton (northbound is the much larger flow in the
AM peak).

I wouldn't bother using Olympia to Shepherd's Bush as an interchange -
there are almost bound to be other equally, if not more, attractive
routings given the length of interchange (it could be 15 mins between
alighting at Olympia and boarding at the Bush - if you get to the Green
at just the wrong time, it can take two minutes just to cross the road
from the shopping centre to the Tube station!).

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station. The same applies to a whole range of journey combinations
between north-west London and west London.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:12:59 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station.

Except that the Southern WLL services (i.e. trains from Harrow &
Wealdstone) won't stop at the new Shepherds Bush station.

In message , asdf
writes
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:12:59 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station.

Except that the Southern WLL services (i.e. trains from Harrow &
Wealdstone) won't stop at the new Shepherds Bush station.

I immediately thought "why ever not?", but then realised that logic
didn't have to apply! Does someone have a better reason other than
madness for not stopping at the new station? (once it opens! ).

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

Paul G wrote:
In message , asdf
writes
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:12:59 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station.

Except that the Southern WLL services (i.e. trains from Harrow &
Wealdstone) won't stop at the new Shepherds Bush station.

I immediately thought "why ever not?", but then realised that logic
didn't have to apply! Does someone have a better reason other than
madness for not stopping at the new station? (once it opens! ).

I'm not sure if this is still the plan - Shepherd's Bush is going to be
the major traffic generator on this line once the shopping centre opens,
and Southern would be pretty foolish not to get their services calling
there.

The excuse I've heard is (I think) platform length - the WLL platforms
at Shep Bush are quite short as to make them any longer would require
moving some signals, and that's a longer-term thing. I think the
Southern trains are longer than the Silverlinks (4 versus 3 cars?).

I could well be wrong. I was told some interesting anecdotes about the
campaign for this station by a Hammersmith & Fulham officer - he said
that under Railtrack (and possibly BR before), every possible reason
would be created so that the idea of a new station would be squashed.
Some organisations are very resistant to change! Luckily Network Rail
seems to be much more amenable to such change - the problem is more
trying to penetrate the organisation from the outside to actually
establish a working relationship with someone there.

Interestingly, this is also a common (and quite understandable) view of
TfL from the outside!

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:30:05 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Except that the Southern WLL services (i.e. trains from Harrow &
Wealdstone) won't stop at the new Shepherds Bush station.

I immediately thought "why ever not?", but then realised that logic
didn't have to apply! Does someone have a better reason other than
madness for not stopping at the new station? (once it opens! ).

I'm not sure if this is still the plan - Shepherd's Bush is going to be
the major traffic generator on this line once the shopping centre opens,
and Southern would be pretty foolish not to get their services calling
there.

The excuse I've heard is (I think) platform length - the WLL platforms
at Shep Bush are quite short as to make them any longer would require
moving some signals, and that's a longer-term thing. I think the
Southern trains are longer than the Silverlinks (4 versus 3 cars?).

The platforms will be long enough for 4 cars. It says so on your own
website: http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/24

I would guess that the lack of stopping is because it would make the
end-to-end journey time too long. This might violate maximum permitted
running times in the franchise agreement, or it might mean that the
trains miss their paths onto/off the WCML and Brighton Mainline (which
involve crossing movements, and probably can't be retimed easily
because of the huge knock-on effects it would have on the main-line
services).

I agree that it seems foolish for the services not to stop there, what
with the interchange with the Central Line and future shopping centre.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:26:00 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Paul Corfield wrote:

I continue to be boggled that LU has not mandated a single standard for
signalling systems.

There are standards mandated for signalling systems. However it would be
crazy for them to mandate one manufacturer's solution. It would be a
licence to print money.

I don't see that setting a standard is equivalent to mandating one
manufacturer's solution - examples abound of technical standards which are
manufacturer-independent, or where there's lots of input from one or a few
groups, but the intellectual property is licensed on a 'reasonable and
non-discriminatory' basis to others.

Anyway, the reason i'm finally replying to this is that someone i know in
the software industry is having a meeting in a couple of weeks with some
chaps who are apparently the top architects of LU moving-block signalling;
he thought they were from LU rather than an infraco, but this might be
confusion. I'll see what he can find out about standards, inteoperability
and all that stuff, and get back to you then!

tom

--
mimeotraditionalists

John Rowland wrote:
Dave A wrote:
Unfortunately nothing has happened with Park Royal. AIUI the
construction of the station is tied into planning consent conditions
related to occupancy of the buildings in the adjacent development
(i.e. once occupancy hits a certain percentage, the station must be
built) and the conditions haven't been met yet.

According to
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...PkRoyalCentral
, the station must open before the third office block can open. Has the
third office block opened, or is it even under construction? A rather
uninformative picture of the station appeared on a billboard close to the
A40 link road, and AFAIK is still there.

The second office block is going up now. There was a long delay while
they looked for someone to buy/rent it. In the meantime, they've built
about 200 more housing units than were originally planned. In any just
world, this would be enough to trigger the station. As it is, we could
have a long wait. The planning permission must lapse soon and I expect
they will try to get the station taken out when renewing it.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.