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#1
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I travelled First Class with FCC from Farringdon to Luton Airport
yesterday evening. Got into the rear compartment to find that it was almost full but I got the last seat (Standard was full). Just after we departed, two FCC guys (presumably RPIs) came into the compartment and asked to view all First Clas tickets. At this point, several people tried to make for the door but were prevented from doing so. In the end, 7 people were penalty fared between Farringdon and West Hampstead Thameslink for sitting in First with a Standard ticket. They all got off at West Hampstead, where 3 more people came into the compartment. Immediately, the RPIs came in and all 3 got £20 penalty fare notices. Another 2 boarded at Harpenden - one had a First Class ticket and the other was penalty fared. A real field day for these RPIs! I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket checks. However, I've noticed that FCC RPIs are far more common now than previously on Thameslink, where there were hardly any checks at all north of the Thames. |
#2
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![]() "Andrea" wrote in message ups.com... I travelled First Class with FCC from Farringdon to Luton Airport yesterday evening. Got into the rear compartment to find that it was almost full but I got the last seat (Standard was full). Just after we departed, two FCC guys (presumably RPIs) came into the compartment and asked to view all First Clas tickets. At this point, several people tried to make for the door but were prevented from doing so. In the end, 7 people were penalty fared between Farringdon and West Hampstead Thameslink for sitting in First with a Standard ticket. They all got off at West Hampstead, where 3 more people came into the compartment. Immediately, the RPIs came in and all 3 got £20 penalty fare notices. Another 2 boarded at Harpenden - one had a First Class ticket and the other was penalty fared. A real field day for these RPIs! I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket checks. However, I've noticed that FCC RPIs are far more common now than previously on Thameslink, where there were hardly any checks at all north of the Thames. Superior class riding checks are a lucrative source of income, always have been, and also good PR for First Class ticket holders. |
#3
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4sub wrote:
Superior class riding checks are a lucrative source of income, always have been, and also good PR for First Class ticket holders. Well done to the staff concerned. I know Elaine Holt has said FCC will be very strict on fare evaders, and that would also include those who feel it's okay to upgrade their ticket for free. I only use First Class when it's declassified (or on Thursday when my 3 hour train journey was 'off the record' declassified by the driver) and would be very annoyed if someone was in there with a standard ticket, or no ticket. I've had short formed services declassified by the driver before, which seems a fair way of dealing with overcrowding. In those circumstances, I doubt a first class ticket holder would be upset if they knew that at all other times things would be enforced strictly. FCC are looking for more RPIs at the moment and I hope this means they can continue gripping on trains, because recently (on the GN side) they've all but disappeared because many stations are 'protected' instead. In reality, many stations aren't really protected because evaders simply run past, refuse to stop (and not all grippers will give chase - but when they do, it's nice to watch the face of the evader, even though they'll probably give false details), walk past giving the finger (probably the worst because they're doing it for a laugh) or jump walls to avoid gates/staff completely. And, gate staff can't enforce first class compartments. There's a lot of money to be made by being strict (as long as they don't ONLY go after the easy pickings) and if FCC recently managed to make a four figure sum by staying at a station until the last train left, it does make me wonder why they aren't doing it more often. Perhaps they will - and other TOCs will follow. Jonathan |
#4
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#5
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![]() Jonathan Morris wrote: 4sub wrote: Superior class riding checks are a lucrative source of income, always have been, and also good PR for First Class ticket holders. Well done to the staff concerned. Agreed - but I do recall an incident a couple of weeks ago on FCC (GN) when I was legitimately travelling First with a Gold Card supplement; a gripper appeared at Hitchin (the first time I'd seen one for a few weeks!) and he could hardly hide the "I've-got-you" look from his face - until he saw my ticket! We had a bit of friendly banter about it afterwards. I know Elaine Holt has said FCC will be very strict on fare evaders, and that would also include those who feel it's okay to upgrade their ticket for free. I only use First Class when it's declassified (or on Thursday when my 3 hour train journey was 'off the record' declassified by the driver) and would be very annoyed if someone was in there with a standard ticket, or no ticket. I've had short formed services declassified by the driver before, which seems a fair way of dealing with overcrowding. In those circumstances, I doubt a first class ticket holder would be upset if they knew that at all other times things would be enforced strictly. FCC are looking for more RPIs at the moment and I hope this means they can continue gripping on trains, because recently (on the GN side) they've all but disappeared because many stations are 'protected' instead. In reality, many stations aren't really protected because evaders simply run past, refuse to stop (and not all grippers will give chase - but when they do, it's nice to watch the face of the evader, even though they'll probably give false details), walk past giving the finger (probably the worst because they're doing it for a laugh) or jump walls to avoid gates/staff completely. And, gate staff can't enforce first class compartments. Not that many stations appear to be "protected"; AFAIAA (and based on what I've seen) there are regular checks at KX suburban, Hatfield, WGC, Stevenage (which is now gated) and Hitchin (I don't know about the Hertford Loop) but that leaves a lot of stations open. In any case, there's often no-one around late at night, when loutish behaviour is at its worst; the gates at Stevenage seem to be left open after about 2130. There's a lot of money to be made by being strict (as long as they don't ONLY go after the easy pickings) and if FCC recently managed to make a four figure sum by staying at a station until the last train left, it does make me wonder why they aren't doing it more often. Perhaps they will - and other TOCs will follow. Jonathan I recall a scene at Letchworth late one Saturday night. I had travelled from KX on the 2315 Cambridge (first stop Letchworth) and the RPIs were in force on arrival; the chorus of "oh s**t" from about 3/4 of those alighting when they saw that they were going to be nicked was music to my ears! I gathered from a colleague that about 40 PFIs (all for 2x single from KX, ie about £25) were issued that night, ie about £1000. I only wish they'd do it more often... It's also occasional practice at Cambridge for the RPIs to form a cordon to prevent access to late-evening departures for either KX or LS (if the units are in the south bays) to anyone without a ticket, especially on Friday and Saturday nights. |
#6
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![]() "Jonathan Morris" wrote: There's a lot of money to be made by being strict (as long as they don't ONLY go after the easy pickings) and if FCC recently managed to make a four figure sum by staying at a station until the last train left, it does make me wonder why they aren't doing it more often. Perhaps they will - and other TOCs will follow. Heathrow Connect seem to have an efficient gripper on every train. I presume the PFs/surcharges collected cover the cost of the staff concerned. If this is correct, one wonders why other TOCs don't follow the same model. I suppose (amongst other difficulties) the pool of people willing to work, reliably, as RPIs is limited. It must be a pretty thankless job. Chris |
#7
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I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on
suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket It's probably more common because standard is full, and whilst it's admirable that the RPI's did their duty I feel the train company would be better off concentrating on ensuring the size of train matches the number of those travelling. Although maybe the overcrowding is deliberate to encourage people to buy first class? I'm on an annual standard and wouldn't sit in first unless I had permission, but it is kind of galling to see empty seats, especially as I'm the last stop before London so it's unlikely anyone else would need that seat. Dave |
#8
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![]() DaveP wrote: I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket It's probably more common because standard is full, and whilst it's admirable that the RPI's did their duty I feel the train company would be better off concentrating on ensuring the size of train matches the number of those travelling. Although maybe the overcrowding is deliberate to encourage people to buy first class? I'm on an annual standard and wouldn't sit in first unless I had permission, but it is kind of galling to see empty seats, especially as I'm the last stop before London so it's unlikely anyone else would need that seat. But the whole point of first class is so that people pay not to have to sit next to people like you (or me). Empty seats around them is the whole intention, which is ridiculous in overcrowded trains. It would be better to get rid of the concept of first class altogether. For anyone who really misses it on that sort of line, where there is no tea service or anything, they just need to bring a hanky with them to put on the back of the seat. |
#9
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![]() DaveP wrote: I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket It's probably more common because standard is full, and whilst it's admirable that the RPI's did their duty I feel the train company would be better off concentrating on ensuring the size of train matches the number of those travelling. Although maybe the overcrowding is deliberate to encourage people to buy first class? I'm on an annual standard and wouldn't sit in first unless I had permission, but it is kind of galling to see empty seats, especially as I'm the last stop before London so it's unlikely anyone else would need that seat. Dave As an aside to this thread. Is it no lomger possible to upgrade to First legitimately? In the 1960s I travelled a lot using a rail warrant (Second Class in those days) and I regularly upgraded to First - if I had time I would do it at the ticket office or if the train was busy I would sit in first and pay the excess fare - definately only the difference between first and second fares. I was in the Merchant Navy and the extra luggage allowance was significant, we had to be prepaered to be away for up to a year and able to survive from Arctic cold to Tropical heat. Bill Harris |
#10
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![]() "DaveP" wrote in message 52... I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First on suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few ticket It's probably more common because standard is full, and whilst it's admirable that the RPI's did their duty I feel the train company would be better off concentrating on ensuring the size of train matches the number of those travelling. Although maybe the overcrowding is deliberate to encourage people to buy first class? When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to leave the station. Its fair to say that buying a ticket doesn't guarantee a seat, just travel (seat reservations excepted). |
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