"Steve" wrote in message
...

The issue is not the hot weather but how LU management and staff respond
to
such problems. When there are no trains/delays you never get decent
information,

Bit of a broad statement! Would you care to give times and dates?

the station staff tend to huddle together rather than making
themselvels available for the people that are supposed to help.

Location?

The lack of
initiative of these staff, when you suggest something the response is to
write to LU in rather than than take it on themselves

Because that's the only way management will pay attention to your complaint.
Would you complain to the Tesco check-out person about the qualitity of
fruit or would you write in if you wanted soemthing done?

despite that fact
that 50% of SAs serve no purpose since they are always around in pairs.


Location, date, time?

When there are problems you will frequently and without notice be chucked
of a train because the driver has to clock off, it may be 30mins before
clocking off time but they must get back to the depot to clock off. There
are two issues with this, one is the attitude of the drivers to sod the
passengers,

Put yourself in the train operators shoes. You're hungry, thirsty, tired and
need a break because you've been driving for hours. In those circumstances
you're far more likely to make a mistake and hit a signal which could get
you sacked, would you risk it?

Even in normal operating trains will change destination to make the
figures
look better, i.e. a full train going via bank will change to Charing X at
Camden because there are not enough trains on that branch, the calculation
that the people on the train were going to via bank does not matter - its
just about numbers of trains. Then there is "we are holding this train to
regulate the service", this usually happens when the train is full and
there is not customer benefit to delaying a full train of people but
management want to have a equal distance between trains - again sod the
passenger.


So, you have two trains using the CX branch and none via Bank. You consider
that good customer service for those on the Bank branch if you don't divert
one of them?

When the drivers strike because their 35K + generous holidays is not
enough
the management play political games claiming whatever percent of service
is
running despite the service being mostly non-existance; the would rather
save face then give the public useful information so they can attempt to
plan their journey.

Please get your facts right as regards to train operators pay rates.

In message , Robin Mayes
writes
The issue is not the hot weather but how LU management and staff respond
to
such problems. When there are no trains/delays you never get decent
information,

Bit of a broad statement! Would you care to give times and dates?

Um.... Actually every station without dot matrix information boards you
don't get decent information about delays. Or even when the trains are
running normally. And even when the dot matrix machines are there they
don't always work.
Sunday afternoon at Wembley Park station. First it was Uxbridge train
next then Watford. Then it went back to Uxbridge and then it was Watford
again. Then Uxbridge. And then Watford. And then in perfect comedy
timing an Amersham train rolled in.
--
CJG

In article , Dave wrote:
CJG writes
Sunday afternoon at Wembley Park station. First it was Uxbridge train
next then Watford. Then it went back to Uxbridge and then it was
Watford again. Then Uxbridge. And then Watford. And then in perfect
comedy timing an Amersham train rolled in.

Judging by the lack of intelligence you have displayed in many other
posts; it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you were looking at
the bottom line of a dot-matrix display, alternating between the 2nd &
3rd trains - whilst totally failing to notice the top line displaying '1
Amersham'.


I hate to say it, but I saw a very similar thing happen between about 1540
and 1555 at Wembley Park on Sunday afternoon.

A Watford Train was just departing,
train 2 shown as fast Amersham, within 5 mins:
train 3 shown as Uxbridge, within 5-10 mins:

As expected, the Amersham went to train 1, and the Uxbridge to train 2,
both now "within 5 mins".
After 10 minutes, the Uxbridge train was train 1, still within 5 mins,
Watford was train 2 and the Amersham was train 3, both also due within 5
mins.

The first train in about 5 minutes later, was indeed the Uxbridge, though I
think that the Amersham and Watford trains had swopped places again.

--
Thomas Covenant
Please reply to

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:20 +0100

"Robin Mayes" wrote in
:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

The issue is not the hot weather but how LU management and staff
respond
to
such problems. When there are no trains/delays you never get decent
information,

Bit of a broad statement! Would you care to give times and dates?

Are you suggestings that the opposite is true?

The example I gave about the SAs telling potential passengers about 10
minutes and admitting they have been doing so for the last 20. I use west
finchley daily and I have *never* heard an announcement, presumably because
the announcer is at finchley central and is too lazy to bother.


the station staff tend to huddle together rather than making
themselvels available for the people that are supposed to help.

Location?

Usually by the barriers, never on a platform.


The lack of
initiative of these staff, when you suggest something the response is
to write to LU in rather than than take it on themselves

Because that's the only way management will pay attention to your
complaint. Would you complain to the Tesco check-out person about the
qualitity of fruit or would you write in if you wanted soemthing done?

Thank you, this tesco analogy sums up LU staff perfectly well, if a Tesco
shelf stacker saw the fruit was mankey they would not put it out and they
would tell their manager who would do something. Sure, fill Tescos will LU
staff then they would put the fruit out because they don't give a damn.


despite that fact
that 50% of SAs serve no purpose since they are always around in pairs.


Location, date, time?

Just go onto any station, are you denying this?

When there are problems you will frequently and without notice be
chucked of a train because the driver has to clock off, it may be
30mins before clocking off time but they must get back to the depot to
clock off. There are two issues with this, one is the attitude of the
drivers to sod the passengers,

Put yourself in the train operators shoes. You're hungry, thirsty, tired
and need a break because you've been driving for hours. In those
circumstances you're far more likely to make a mistake and hit a signal
which could get you sacked, would you risk it?

So what about those who have automatic trains? And if you are suggesting an
extra 20 minutes would make you a danger I suggest that margin is too close
and you are too dangerous to drive. Also, note I did say you will stop
driving before end of shift to travel back to the depot to clock off rather
then carrying on but ending your shift elsewhere.


Even in normal operating trains will change destination to make the
figures
look better, i.e. a full train going via bank will change to Charing X
at Camden because there are not enough trains on that branch, the
calculation that the people on the train were going to via bank does
not matter - its just about numbers of trains. Then there is "we are
holding this train to regulate the service", this usually happens when
the train is full and there is not customer benefit to delaying a full
train of people but management want to have a equal distance between
trains - again sod the passenger.


So, you have two trains using the CX branch and none via Bank. You
consider that good customer service for those on the Bank branch if you
don't divert one of them?

Well you have a trains worth of people on a platform and a mostly empty
train. Note these changes are only notified at camden so you have already
screwed the bank service by letting the train pass though claiming it is
going via CC. Defending **** poor planning does not make LU look good.

Perhaps every time this happened the controller had to report why it
happened and why he should carry on in his job when he cannot even forsee
that.

"Matthew Malthouse" wrote in message
.. .

This morning there were delays on the Met because of over-run
engineering works and, I assume as a concequence, the indicator at
Liverpool Street was unable to show any but the next train and that
only a minute or two before its arrival.


If you mean on the Westbound, you'll rarely see more than one train
indicated as the indicator doesn't get the information until the train is
halfway across Aldgate junction.

At Liverpool street the information isn't really vital as every train
goers as far as Baker Street and there are plenty of opportunities to
change should one need to.

Unless it's stabling at Farringdon ;-) (just to be pedantic).

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Also, note I did say you will stop
driving before end of shift to travel back to the depot to clock off
rather
then carrying on but ending your shift elsewhere

I did indeed note it. Are you jealous of the working conditions they've
fought hard to win?

So you just ignored it. Next time you go on strike remember that you are
not willing to put yourself out when the service has gone tits-up, this
bloody minded awkwardness you call working conditions is a major
contributor to the longivity of problems following the initial incident.
You can never be called professionals aside from proffessional clock
watchers. Your lack of willing to do anything to help the organisation get
back running epitomises the sick culture of your organisation.

What on earth gave you the idea I was a train operator, or in fact, in one
of the unions that has gone on strike on LU? In point of fact, I have
repeatedly travelled in, usually by alternative means to ensure customers
are able to get some kind of service with the limited resorces available.
With the level of virtiol venting from your spleen, perhaps I won't bother
next time. BTW, did you use the District line this evening? If so, it was my
volunteering to work that kept the service running east of Barking.

You think they don't already? Every delay to the train service of over
two minutes requires an incident report. If it's something like
"Operator not available" it requires a list of deployment of 'spares'. I
can assure you staff would rather not have to complete them!

Then they should publish this information. I know, I know, that is totally
against the culture of LU giving out info.


Become an MP, then you'll get the info.

"Robin Mayes" wrote in
:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Also, note I did say you will stop
driving before end of shift to travel back to the depot to clock off
rather
then carrying on but ending your shift elsewhere

I did indeed note it. Are you jealous of the working conditions
they've fought hard to win?

So you just ignored it. Next time you go on strike remember that you
are not willing to put yourself out when the service has gone tits-up,
this bloody minded awkwardness you call working conditions is a major
contributor to the longivity of problems following the initial
incident. You can never be called professionals aside from
proffessional clock watchers. Your lack of willing to do anything to
help the organisation get back running epitomises the sick culture of
your organisation.

What on earth gave you the idea I was a train operator, or in fact, in
one of the unions that has gone on strike on LU? In point of fact, I
have repeatedly travelled in, usually by alternative means to ensure
customers are able to get some kind of service with the limited resorces
available. With the level of virtiol venting from your spleen, perhaps I
won't bother next time. BTW, did you use the District line this evening?
If so, it was my volunteering to work that kept the service running east
of Barking.

You think they don't already? Every delay to the train service of
over two minutes requires an incident report. If it's something like
"Operator not available" it requires a list of deployment of
'spares'. I can assure you staff would rather not have to complete
them!

Then they should publish this information. I know, I know, that is
totally against the culture of LU giving out info.


Become an MP, then you'll get the info.

Probably about the same length you need to go to in order to find out when
the next train is. LU seem to be able to use their website as a political
organ shame its not used for explaining their mess.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:53:26 +0100 Robin Mayes wrote:
}
} "Matthew Malthouse" wrote in message
} .. .
} On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:42:52 +0100 Robin Mayes wrote:
}
}
} } If you mean on the Westbound, you'll rarely see more than one train
} } indicated as the indicator doesn't get the information until the train
} is
} } halfway across Aldgate junction.
}
} Often there are 2 indicated although I wouldn't venture a guess as to
} what proportion of the time this is managed.
}
} You must only travel during the peak then.

Weekdays I'm on that platform at roughly 07.35 - 07.50 when working
early and anywhere between 09.30 and 10.45 when later.

Occasionally other times, but infrequently.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

In article , CJG
writes
I may have criticised London Underground once or twice but I have never
made a personal attack anyone.

Then what do you describe the following as?

the station staff). Some of whom when you ask them when the next train
is response is "What's a train?" and then drag their knuckles along the
ground back to their little box so they can read their Ladybird guide
to safety precautions Volume 3.

Looks pretty much like a personal attack on the staff who were there at
the time.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address