On Feb 12, 11:53 am, "Paul Weaver" wrote:
Vote with your pounds then, and don't use it! And remember to vote

Sorry , the don't use it argument is a non starter. Some of us don't
have a choice.

Everyone chooses the best value of time/money/convienience for them.
In most cases you don't need a travel card (especially a peak time
one)

In most cases except when you're travelling to work? Isn't it funny
how travelcards are more expensive before 9.30. However I'm sure this
is purely for operational reasons and has nothing to do with fleeceing
the public.

Ken's done wonders in moving scum to the buses leaving the tubes, on
the most part (save for the drug dealers and fare dodgers) free for
normal hard working people.

Well you have to be hard working to afford the fares now.

B2003

On Feb 12, 12:00 pm, "doctorcrippin"
wrote:
It is a shame that Boltar didn't end his comments at Mayor
Livingstone, he then decided to slag the staff that mostly agree that
fares are exorbibant. We are on our feet for between 5 and 8 hours a
day and have to take not only verbal but also now becoming more
frequent physical abuse. If he thinks our job is easy, why not spend a
shift at a central London station and experience the delightful
travelling public. Also if something goes wrong, be it fire, explosion
or any number of possibilities, he will rely on the training of the
staff to get him out. I hope he takes that on board the next time he
chooses to slag off the staff.

I was going to write a long reply , but I can't be bothered.

3 points:

- Station staff who know nothing about whats going on and vanish as
soon as theres a delay giving us sod all information even over the
tannoy (the Finsbury Park staff seem to be especially good at this).
- Drivers who make exorbitant demands for money.
- Signallers who don't seem to know where a train is going which ends
up sitting at a red light for ages.

B2003

On 12 Feb, 14:51, "Boltar" wrote:
Vote with your pounds then, and don't use it! And remember to vote

Sorry , the don't use it argument is a non starter. Some of us don't
have a choice.


Rubbish. Are you genuinely incapable of getting a job within cycling/
walking/bussing distance of your house? Are your skills so niche that
you wouldn't be able to find any employment outside of London?

If not, then you have a choice. And your decision has been to pay for
the Tube rather than make these lifestyle changes. Go figure...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Feb 12, 4:34 pm, "John B" wrote:
On 12 Feb, 14:51, "Boltar" wrote:

Vote with your pounds then, and don't use it! And remember to vote

Sorry , the don't use it argument is a non starter. Some of us don't
have a choice.

Rubbish. Are you genuinely incapable of getting a job within cycling/
walking/bussing distance of your house?

No , I'm sure could get a job flipping burgers in the local McDonalds.


If not, then you have a choice. And your decision has been to pay for
the Tube rather than make these lifestyle changes. Go figure...

No mate , when I started working in london the fares were reasonable.
I didn't get a job here *knowing* how bad the fares were because they
*weren't* that bad. They been slowly forced on me as the years went
by. And you saying I've made some sort of liftstyle choice so should
put up with the fares is just specious defeatist bull**** - you could
use that sort of argument to justify anything and let the people
responsible get away with it.

Don't like the way the country is being run? Go live somewhere else.

Don't agree with the bombing of Iraq? Go live somewhere else.

Don't like the cost of stamps? Go live somewhere else.

Etc etc.

B2003

On 12 Feb, 16:47, "Boltar" wrote:
If not, then you have a choice. And your decision has been to pay for
the Tube rather than make these lifestyle changes. Go figure...

No mate , when I started working in london the fares were reasonable.
I didn't get a job here *knowing* how bad the fares were because they
*weren't* that bad. They been slowly forced on me as the years went
by.

This is simply not true (unless you started working in the middle of
Fares Fair, in which case that's rather unfortunate but a fairly
obvious one-off...)

In 1992, a monthly z1-6 Travelcard cost £91.40. The same card now
costs £165.20. [1]

Based on inflatiion (RPI), £91.40 in 1992 is the same as £126.71 in
2005. As a share of median earnings, £91.40 is the same as £152.12 in
2005. And as a share of GDP per capita, £91.40 is the same as £174.94
in 2005 (this is much higher than the earnings figure because of the
increase in income inequality...) [2]

Trending things forward to mid-2007, inflation has been running at
about 2.5% for 2 years, so the figure now would be £133. Earnings
growth has been running at about 5% (including inflation) so the
figure would be £168ish.

In orther words, if you've got a job where you've seen the same kind
of rise in earnings as the average UK worker, then you're spending the
same share of your income on your Travelcard that you would have spent
in 1992 (and I've actually rigged the figures against myself here,
because fares rose 14% between 1992 and 1993 - if I'd started a year
later then the calculation would have shown today as noticeably
cheaper).

[1] http://www.publications.parliament.u...0001/cmhansrd/
vo010409/text/10409w07.htm

[2] http://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Perhaps the staff at Finsbury Park are the exception,cant comment on drivers
and pay however if the ballot is returned with a solid yes vote expect to
see several strike days.

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 12, 12:00 pm, "doctorcrippin"
wrote:
It is a shame that Boltar didn't end his comments at Mayor
Livingstone, he then decided to slag the staff that mostly agree that
fares are exorbibant. We are on our feet for between 5 and 8 hours a
day and have to take not only verbal but also now becoming more
frequent physical abuse. If he thinks our job is easy, why not spend a
shift at a central London station and experience the delightful
travelling public. Also if something goes wrong, be it fire, explosion
or any number of possibilities, he will rely on the training of the
staff to get him out. I hope he takes that on board the next time he
chooses to slag off the staff.

I was going to write a long reply , but I can't be bothered.

3 points:

- Station staff who know nothing about whats going on and vanish as
soon as theres a delay giving us sod all information even over the
tannoy (the Finsbury Park staff seem to be especially good at this).
- Drivers who make exorbitant demands for money.
- Signallers who don't seem to know where a train is going which ends
up sitting at a red light for ages.

B2003

On Feb 12, 6:00 pm, "John B" wrote:
In 1992, a monthly z1-6 Travelcard cost £91.40. The same card now
costs £165.20. [1]

Based on inflatiion (RPI), £91.40 in 1992 is the same as £126.71 in
2005. As a share of median earnings, £91.40 is the same as £152.12 in
2005. And as a share of GDP per capita, £91.40 is the same as £174.94
in 2005 (this is much higher than the earnings figure because of the
increase in income inequality...) [2]

Trending things forward to mid-2007, inflation has been running at
about 2.5% for 2 years, so the figure now would be £133. Earnings
growth has been running at about 5% (including inflation) so the
figure would be £168ish.

Thats all very fascinating and I'm sure you and your Casio had a great
time. What I can tell you is that my monthly travelcard cost me about
95 quid 3 years ago (which is as far back as I can remember, I've been
using the tube to go to work on and off for 10 years) , this month its
over 120. For 3 years with inflation of say 3% that 95 quid should now
be 95 * 1.03 ^ 3 = 103.80. So where has that other 17 quid come from
then?

B2003

On 12 Feb 2007 06:51:07 -0800, "Boltar"
wrote:

Isn't it funny
how travelcards are more expensive before 9.30. However I'm sure this
is purely for operational reasons and has nothing to do with fleeceing
the public.

Day travelcards are more expensive before 0930 to discourage tourists
from adding extra congestion to the morning rush hour.

Boltar wrote:

Don't like the way the country is being run? Go live somewhere else.

Don't agree with the bombing of Iraq? Go live somewhere else.

Don't like the cost of stamps? Go live somewhere else.

Don't like anything that TfL or LUL do? Go post somewhere else.

Paul Weaver wrote:

Ken's done wonders in moving scum to the buses leaving the tubes, on
the most part (save for the drug dealers and fare dodgers) free for
normal hard working people.

What a delightfully backward opinion.