On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

In message , Tom Anderson
writes
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, John Hearns wrote:

Boltar wrote:

I don't use the jubilee much but the times I have been on that
section I've not seen any either. Also I can't see how someone would
get on or off a tube in a wheelchair

I have never seen a blue whale with my own eyes.

Oh, you should get down to the Natural History Museum, then. They've a very
good one there.

I think that's actually made of plaster...

Yes. As members of suborder koniamidoceti, blue whales are indeed made of
plaster. Hence their not being preyed on by giant squid. SCIENCE FACT.

tom

--
eviscerated by obfuscation

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 21 Feb, 17:33, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article . com,
Boltar wrote:

I don't use the jubilee much but the times I have been on that section
I've not seen any either. Also I can't see how someone would get on or
off a tube in a wheelchair train in the rush hour without serious
inconvenience to themselves and other people. Its hard enough for
mothers with prams.

Folk in wheelchairs can be more nimble than mothers with prams; some of
them will have been 'wheeling' for years, but mothers stop pushing prams
as soon as they can.

Not sure i'd agree with that - there are plenty of women pushing around
kids who are clearly old enough to walk. A friend of mine has a bee in her
bonnet about it and always points them out, so i know this to be true!

Tom - dare I say that it's sometimes easier to shove them in a buggy
anyway! Little legs get tired quickly.

Yebbut - it's not at all uncommon to see huge big kids strapped into
buggies and struggling to get out, showing no signs of tiredness at all. I
think in a lot of cases it's more about control, and the parent's
convenience - they can make the kid go wherever they want, at good speed,
without the child being able to oppose them. Great for the parent, pretty
horrific for the child. Not a good start on a healthy, exercise-filled
life, either.

tom

--
eviscerated by obfuscation

Boltar wrote:


More like a rolling of the eyes as people ignore reality in
transparently desperate attempts to get right-on brownie points.

No search for brownie points.
Just pointing out to you that disabled people travel all over the London
transport network - Tube, rail, bus, DLR, taxis every day.
Whether you like it or not, whether or not you personally have seen them,
and whether or not your oh-so-important journey to work means you
wouldn't give them a bit of room at the rush hour.

Boltar wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:03 am, John Hearns wrote:
Disabled people get around this city every day - by power of their own
muscles, electric traction or the help of parents, friends or carers.
And they're on your precious Tube system and buses. The very thought of it.

Good luck to them. Though if its such a breeze I'd suggest they try
the southbound northern line at kings X at around 8.30am in the
morning.

Why? I really don't understand your insistence that disabled people need
to use the tube at peak hours in the busiest stations or it doesn't
count. The majority (55 percent) of LU journeys are off-peak. Even if it
were impossible for wheelchair users to use the Tube in the peak, which
it isn't, there would still be 102 hours a week they could use the Tube
off-peak.

At least we've progressed from your previous statements that
wheelchair-people don't travel by LU at all.
--
Michael Hoffman

Boltar wrote:

Odd , last time I viewed this post it was corrupted, now I can
actually see what you wrote. Anyway , it may be a useful amount if
only need those stations of routes via , but thats hardly a huge
proportion of the possible total.
Eight stations is four times the proportion that two is.

And if you are a regular user of the Piccadilly Line, you'll use on
average two stations a day.

John Hearns wrote:

And if you are a regular user of the Piccadilly Line, you'll use on
average two stations a day.

Has the Moscow Metro still got only one wheelchair accessible station?

On Feb 22, 5:44 pm, John Hearns wrote:
Boltar wrote:

More like a rolling of the eyes as people ignore reality in
transparently desperate attempts to get right-on brownie points.

No search for brownie points.
Just pointing out to you that disabled people travel all over the London
transport network - Tube, rail, bus, DLR, taxis every day.
Whether you like it or not, whether or not you personally have seen them,
and whether or not your oh-so-important journey to work means you
wouldn't give them a bit of room at the rush hour.

It wouldn't be a case of whether I would , but whether I could. Have
you ever travelled on the tube in the rush hour? For someone in a
wheelchair to get on a packed rush hour train probably about 2 or 3 or
even 4 people would have to get off to make enough room. I can't
really see that happening can you/

B2003

On Feb 22, 5:58 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:03 am, John Hearns wrote:
Disabled people get around this city every day - by power of their own
muscles, electric traction or the help of parents, friends or carers.
And they're on your precious Tube system and buses. The very thought of it.

Good luck to them. Though if its such a breeze I'd suggest they try
the southbound northern line at kings X at around 8.30am in the
morning.

Why? I really don't understand your insistence that disabled people need
to use the tube at peak hours in the busiest stations or it doesn't

Because if they're using the tube as a daily method of transport and
not as once-a-month day out (in which case why waste money on disabled
access, just pay for a dial-a-ride taxi) then they'll more than likely
be travelling in the rush hour unless they've managed to get special
dispensation from their boss to work different hours to everyone
else.

count. The majority (55 percent) of LU journeys are off-peak. Even if it
were impossible for wheelchair users to use the Tube in the peak, which
it isn't, there would still be 102 hours a week they could use the Tube
off-peak.

I never said it was impossible. I suspect it would be bloody hard in
central london though they'd probably be ok out in the sticks.

At least we've progressed from your previous statements that
wheelchair-people don't travel by LU at all.

I never said they didn't use the tube , I just said I'd not personally
seen them and given I use the tube twice a day 5 days a week I'd have
thought I'd have seen at least one or two in the last few years if
they were as common as you imply.

B2003

Boltar wrote:

Because if they're using the tube as a daily method of transport and
not as once-a-month day out (in which case why waste money on disabled
access, just pay for a dial-a-ride taxi) then they'll more than likely
be travelling in the rush hour unless they've managed to get special
dispensation from their boss to work different hours to everyone
else.
This argument is going round in a circle.
DLR fully accessible, as is Jubilee Line extension. More and more Tube
stations are becoming accessible as they are refitted.
Which means more and more wheelchair users can use the system - and do.
More stations opened up equals more journeys being made. Its called a
'network'.

John Hearns wrote:
Boltar wrote:

Because if they're using the tube as a daily method of transport and
not as once-a-month day out (in which case why waste money on
disabled access, just pay for a dial-a-ride taxi) then they'll more
than likely be travelling in the rush hour unless they've managed to
get special dispensation from their boss to work different hours to
everyone else.

This argument is going round in a circle.

Of course, arguments with trolls tend to!