On Feb 20, 7:28 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 20 Feb 2007 08:12:35 -0800, "John B" wrote:

On 20 Feb, 13:22, wrote:

Don't worry - TfL are about to fix that as there is to be a N188
introduced later this year which nicely provides a 24 hour service from
Greenwich to Bermondsey.



That ok then, later this year the op will be able to get to his place
of work, until then he obviously has to find another job or go on the
dole.

Kevin

On Feb 21, 9:34 am, "Kev" wrote:
On Feb 20, 7:28 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On 20 Feb 2007 08:12:35 -0800, "John B" wrote:

On 20 Feb, 13:22, wrote:
Don't worry - TfL are about to fix that as there is to be a N188
introduced later this year which nicely provides a 24 hour service from
Greenwich to Bermondsey.

That ok then, later this year the op will be able to get to his place
of work, until then he obviously has to find another job or go on the
dole.

Kevin

No, as he says in his post he drives. There is no chance of this c-
charge being introduced before then, if ever.

On Feb 21, 11:25 am, "umpston" wrote:
On Feb 21, 9:34 am, "Kev" wrote:

On Feb 20, 7:28 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On 20 Feb 2007 08:12:35 -0800, "John B" wrote:

On 20 Feb, 13:22, wrote:
Don't worry - TfL are about to fix that as there is to be a N188
introduced later this year which nicely provides a 24 hour service from
Greenwich to Bermondsey.

That ok then, later this year the op will be able to get to his place
of work, until then he obviously has to find another job or go on the
dole.

Kevin

No, as he says in his post he drives. There is no chance of this c-
charge being introduced before then, if ever.


But if some people here had their way his options to drive would be
taken away. I agree with bit about the C charge not being brought some
time soon though.

Kevin

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:28:36 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

If the EL river crossing is ever built then I hope that will have a nice
toll slapped on it as well as on the Blackwall Tunnel - whether via a
congestion charge or some other mechanism (mandatory Oyster cards for
all motorists and massive "pads" installed at the tunnel entrances -
"beep").

Why not provide alternatives, research why many are in cars instead of
using the big money stick? People will change mode of transport over
time but the big stick leads to a large political fallout:
resentments, vote out the bullies. Transport provision for decades was
road-based and patterns of movements have built up around them. M25 is
the classic example. It should take brains, research and time to
enable change (including breaking the awful 9am school and work
deadline).

I oppose the "toll them all" mentality. Have things declined so much
that the only solution to any issue is to go for wallets?

Capita seem to think that we all love cars. I registered for the
residents' "discount" merely to access a road to drive *out* of
London, away from congestion. In comes a letter: do you know you can
access the West End by car now, why not pay and drive in? It's not
quite that blunt but the sentiment really stuck. Daytime West End is a
tube for me, not a car.

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Colum Mylod wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:28:36 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

If the EL river crossing is ever built then I hope that will have a nice
toll slapped on it as well as on the Blackwall Tunnel - whether via a
congestion charge or some other mechanism (mandatory Oyster cards for
all motorists and massive "pads" installed at the tunnel entrances -
"beep").

Why not provide alternatives, research why many are in cars instead of
using the big money stick? People will change mode of transport over
time but the big stick leads to a large political fallout:
resentments, vote out the bullies. Transport provision for decades was
road-based and patterns of movements have built up around them. M25 is
the classic example. It should take brains, research and time to
enable change (including breaking the awful 9am school and work
deadline).

I oppose the "toll them all" mentality. Have things declined so much
that the only solution to any issue is to go for wallets?

There inevitably comes a time when the only practical way to improve the
public transport option is to do so at the expense of the private
option. There have been a vast range of public transport options in
central London for years; improving them further requires road space (or
vast sums of money, in the case of railways).

It's not exactly a "toll them all" mentality, either. There are a number
of ways to get around the charge with private transport, including the
obvious bike, plus scooters, motorbikes, electric/low-emission vehicles etc.

Beyond that, I think you could reasonably say that things have declined
to the point where the solution is in the wallet. It doesn't matter how
many alternatives you offer people, some will still choose to drive even
if they have the option to travel in another way. They are demanding a
very limited resource (road space); the only ways to allocate it are by
queuing or charging. Both of those options are going to be unfair on
someone, but where time is very important, the sensible option is to go
for charging.

The issues with queuing are that (a) it uses energy inefficiently and
(b) often penalises those who have switched to the alternatives.

Capita seem to think that we all love cars. I registered for the
residents' "discount" merely to access a road to drive *out* of
London, away from congestion. In comes a letter: do you know you can
access the West End by car now, why not pay and drive in? It's not
quite that blunt but the sentiment really stuck. Daytime West End is a
tube for me, not a car.

In the way you present that, it seems rather odd - but then again
residents of the WEZ are entitled to know that they can drive into the
central area with their discount, as that's the option that was chosen
(rather than separate zones).

As for the issue of driving out of the zone, it's unfortunately all too
familiar to some. However, TfL are certainly working on ways to address
issues like that, through the use of smarter tag-and-beacon or
satellite-positioning technology. It may not be long before you are
offered the option to install a tag in your car in order to benefit from
lower charges (as it will then be able to tell that you use the less
congested roads/directions).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:58:57 +0000, Dave A wrote:

It's not exactly a "toll them all" mentality, either. There are a number
of ways to get around the charge with private transport, including the
obvious bike, plus scooters, motorbikes, electric/low-emission vehicles etc.
Would you place bets on how many of these would remain uncharged?
Especially if there is enough movement towards low-CO2 cars? And as
the scheme was sold as anti "congestion", is it ok to jump on an
emissions bandwagon? It's not exactly a clear message or bedded-down
policy (apart from the revenue side).

They are demanding a
very limited resource (road space); the only ways to allocate it are by
queuing or charging. Both of those options are going to be unfair on
someone, but where time is very important, the sensible option is to go
for charging.

I've lived in an area with a permit scheme, no hi-tech cameras. Same
area was severely anti-rat run which I can see the CC zone as being as
well. It doesn't take much to pinch traffic into "primary routes" -
Delft's car barriers are v. good at that. London for me was always a
shock of rat runs, people taking tiny roads to gain little advantage,
and causing knock-on effects. And the delivery van situation is
appalling - vans in bus lanes because of poor planning. Even the
regular police horse boxes in rush-hour Hammersmith are an example of
bad policy that goes on and on.

As for the issue of driving out of the zone, it's unfortunately all too
familiar to some. However, TfL are certainly working on ways to address
issues like that, through the use of smarter tag-and-beacon or
satellite-positioning technology. It may not be long before you are
offered the option to install a tag in your car in order to benefit from
lower charges (as it will then be able to tell that you use the less
congested roads/directions).

I chose jobs and mode of transport to minimise travel time or at least
make it better (bus over Central Line when OxCirc is stuffed!). But I
feel the population is jaded with "stealth taxes" and tired of the
current bunch of politicos so it'll be a hard sell for road pricing -
and if you end up in a jam you have to pay for, the political
repercussions would be interesting. Once again there is an unseeming
rush to go hi-tech and early-adopt where other measures should be
tried. For one, I'd like to see proper cycle lanes and not silly
painted lines.
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