St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

The new underground station at St Pancras for Thameslink services is usually
referred to as 'Midland Road' in the various documentation available on the
web.

However - does it actually need a separate name when it comes into use? As I
see it from the station plans its going to be accessed from the same
'entrance cross passage' as the MML and Kent platforms, so why can't it just
use the next two sequential platform numbers? Clearly the station it
replaces needed a separate identity, but I'm not so sure about the new
one...

Paul

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 16 Mar, 12:18, "Paul Scott" wrote:
The new underground station at St Pancras for Thameslink services is usually
referred to as 'Midland Road' in the various documentation available on the
web.

However - does it actually need a separate name when it comes into use? As I
see it from the station plans its going to be accessed from the same
'entrance cross passage' as the MML and Kent platforms, so why can't it just
use the next two sequential platform numbers? Clearly the station it
replaces needed a separate identity, but I'm not so sure about the new
one...

Paul


Good point. AFAIAA the final name hasn't yet been decided/confirmed -
St. Pancras Midland Road is the "project name", as it were.

I guess FCC wouldn't be too keen on St Pancras Thameslink, but I'm
sure they don't have a carte blance with regards to the stations
naming.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"Paul Scott" wrote
The new underground station at St Pancras for Thameslink services is
usually
referred to as 'Midland Road' in the various documentation available on
the
web.

However - does it actually need a separate name when it comes into use? As
I
see it from the station plans its going to be accessed from the same
'entrance cross passage' as the MML and Kent platforms, so why can't it
just
use the next two sequential platform numbers?

Zero and minus one, then?

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In message , at 17:38:21 on
Fri, 16 Mar 2007, John Salmon remarked:
so why can't it just use the next two sequential platform numbers?

Zero and minus one, then?

A and B would seem to be the precedent.
--
Roland Perry

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:38:21 on Fri,
16 Mar 2007, John Salmon remarked:
so why can't it just use the next two sequential platform numbers?

Zero and minus one, then?

A and B would seem to be the precedent.

I can see where you're coming from, but I can't see why 12 & 13 (a guess
btw) can't be used, although surely as the only through platforms they
should actually be 1 & 2!

Paul

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 6:08 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, but I can't see why 12 & 13 (a guess
btw) can't be used, although surely as the only through platforms they
should actually be 1 & 2!

One day it might be nice to get all the Kings Cross-St Pancras
platforms numbered sequentially! But as the two stations have now been
balkanised into about five I guess it's a non-starter.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"TimB" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 16, 6:08 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, but I can't see why 12 & 13 (a guess
btw) can't be used, although surely as the only through platforms they
should actually be 1 & 2!

One day it might be nice to get all the Kings Cross-St Pancras
platforms numbered sequentially! But as the two stations have now been
balkanised into about five I guess it's a non-starter.

Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket office at
St Pancras run by the majority TOC?

Paul

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 5:13 pm, "Mizter T" wrote:
Good point. AFAIAA the final name hasn't yet been decided/confirmed -
St. Pancras Midland Road is the "project name", as it were.

I guess FCC wouldn't be too keen on St Pancras Thameslink, but I'm
sure they don't have a carte blance with regards to the stations
naming.

Some people are already calling the Thameslink station 'St. Pancras
Midland Road Low Level' and the MML platforms 'St. Pancras Midland
Road High Level'.

I wonder if the CTRL-DS platforms will end up being called 'St.
Pancras Kentish Road'!

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 6:31 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket office at
St Pancras run by the majority TOC?

There already is one, run by MML. The ticket office for the Eurostar
and CTRL-DS services will probably be where the original MML ticket
office was located, at the front of the station near the LU SSL ticket
office.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 16, 6:31 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket office
at
St Pancras run by the majority TOC?

There already is one, run by MML. The ticket office for the Eurostar
and CTRL-DS services will probably be where the original MML ticket
office was located, at the front of the station near the LU SSL ticket
office.

I've since looked at the station plan, I can only see Eurostar mentioned at
the front of the station - I would have thought the 3 domestic services will
be colocated - there seems no reason for CTRL-DS and Eurostar to be together
surely?

Paul

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 8:38 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message

oups.com... On Mar 16, 6:31 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket office
at
St Pancras run by the majority TOC?

There already is one, run by MML. The ticket office for the Eurostar
and CTRL-DS services will probably be where the original MML ticket
office was located, at the front of the station near the LU SSL ticket
office.

I've since looked at the station plan, I can only see Eurostar mentioned at
the front of the station - I would have thought the 3 domestic services will
be colocated - there seems no reason for CTRL-DS and Eurostar to be together
surely?

Paul

That depends on whether or not CTRL-DS will be a turn-up-and-go
standard railway service, or if it will need all of the security
stuff. If the former is true (common sense would suggest such), then I
suspect that the MML ticket office will sell tickets for CTRL-DS
services. If the latter is true (a stupid move, IMO) then the Eurostar
office will be the place to go.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
On Mar 16, 6:31 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket
office at St Pancras run by the majority TOC?

There already is one, run by MML. The ticket office for the Eurostar
and CTRL-DS services will probably be where the original MML ticket
office was located, at the front of the station near the LU SSL
ticket office.

I'm sure there was a sign that said something like "Domestic tickets"
above the MML ticket office last time I was there, which suggests it
will indeed cover the Kent services. (Why do we have to use a nasty
acronym like CTRL-DS?)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"Richard J." wrote

Why do we have to use a nasty
acronym like CTRL-DS?

Because we are not sure yet whether all Southeastern trains using HS1 will
be branded Javelin, or whether this brand name will be limited to the
Olympic period shuttle services. But I think most of us here will know
what's being referred to if we decide to call them all Javelin, to include
the Hitachi trains and the services they will operate.

Peter

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

Peter Masson wrote:
"Richard J." wrote

Why do we have to use a nasty
acronym like CTRL-DS?

Because we are not sure yet whether all Southeastern trains using
HS1 will be branded Javelin, or whether this brand name will be
limited to the Olympic period shuttle services. But I think most of
us here will know what's being referred to if we decide to call
them all Javelin, to include the Hitachi trains and the services
they will operate.

I've only seen "Javelin" used in connection with the Olympics, so it's
liable to cause confusion if you unilaterally use it to cover the Kent
services as well. Southeastern's website refers to the trains as
Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 10:52 pm, "Richard J." wrote:

Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".


Indeed.

But this won't stop someone calling them 6Jav soon - or even 6Jap.

--
Nick

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 11:35 pm, "D7666" wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:52 pm, "Richard J." wrote:

Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".

Indeed.

But this won't stop someone calling them 6Jav soon - or even 6Jap.

I like that - a lesser alternative would be 6Joh, Javelin Outer-
suburban Hitachi.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In article . com,
D7666 wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:52 pm, "Richard J." wrote:

Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".


Indeed.

But this won't stop someone calling them 6Jav soon - or even 6Jap.

I think you could have just coined a phrase there, Nick :)

Nick
--
http://www.leverton.org/blosxom ... So express yourself

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In message , at 21:56:43
on Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Richard J. remarked:
I'm sure there was a sign that said something like "Domestic tickets"
above the MML ticket office last time I was there,

There is.

which suggests it will indeed cover the Kent services.

The ticket office in question is effectively half way between the MML
and the Kent platforms (and therefore close to neither, in particular
it's nowhere near the MML platforms if you approach through the
yet-to-be-opened shopping mall in the Barlow shed) so it seems the
obvious answer.
--
Roland Perry

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"Roland Perry" wrote

The ticket office in question is effectively half way between the MML
and the Kent platforms (and therefore close to neither, in particular
it's nowhere near the MML platforms if you approach through the
yet-to-be-opened shopping mall in the Barlow shed) so it seems the
obvious answer.

Southeastern and its predecessors make quite a habit of siting ticket
offices at stations they share with other operators well away from the Kent
platforms. At Victoria the ticket office is on the Brighton side. Waterloo
East ticket office was closed years ago, and you have to buy tickets in the
Main station.

Peter

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In article ,
Peter Masson wrote:

Southeastern and its predecessors make quite a habit of siting ticket
offices at stations they share with other operators well away from the Kent
platforms. At Victoria the ticket office is on the Brighton side. Waterloo
East ticket office was closed years ago, and you have to buy tickets in the
Main station.

Victoria had a small ticket office on the Chatham side well into the
late 1970s. I think it was roughly opposite platforms 2/3/4 but I only
used it a few times so am not sure now.

Nick

--
http://www.leverton.org/blosxom ... So express yourself

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Why do we have to use a nasty acronym like CTRL-DS?

Anglostar!

tom

--
WHO REPLACED THE CLIENT FILES WITH TEQUILA.. ALFONZ??

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Why do we have to use a nasty acronym like CTRL-DS?

Anglostar!

:D
--
Michael Hoffman

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
...
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Richard J. wrote:

Why do we have to use a nasty acronym like CTRL-DS?

Anglostar!

:D
--
Michael Hoffman
The abbreviation used in-house is 'RDO' (Reserved[?] Domestic Operator)
Brian

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 16 Mar, 19:49, "TheOneKEA" wrote:


Some people are already calling the Thameslink station 'St. Pancras
Midland Road Low Level' and the MML platforms 'St. Pancras Midland
Road High Level'.

I wonder if the CTRL-DS platforms will end up being called 'St.
Pancras Kentish Road'!

I remember reading years ago a suggest that it be called St Pancras
British Musuem.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 17, 9:49 pm, "ONscotland" wrote:

I remember reading years ago a suggest that it be called St Pancras
British Musuem.

British Library maybe?

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 16, 12:18 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
The new underground station at St Pancras for Thameslink services is usually
referred to as 'Midland Road' in the various documentation available on the
web.

However - does it actually need a separate name when it comes into use?


Probably does need a single name when it comes into public use - but
the two names might have been in legal use at least for now because
there are 2 projects there - one of which has been overtaken by the
other.


While the whole of TL2000 continues to be stalled, the new St Pancras
station for that stand alone project pre-dates by a very long margin
anything to do with rebuilding the main Stancras station for CTRL and
European services.

I am fairly certain that before CTRL came along, there was no plan to
rebuild the main station undercroft [or if there was, it was not for
rail passenger facilities] and SP Midland Road was (in the main) to be
a seperate station - possibly with some kind of direct subway access -
rather like KX Thameslink is also a seperate entity but connected by
passages if one counts going via the tube lines.

Then along came CTRL embracing MML and CTRL-DS as well as Eurostar and
the complete rebuild added into the TL2000 idea of the new low level
Thameslink station. Almost certainly this has a different planning
permission and/or other legal or documented name. Two projects with
two names than have combined.

Thats only my suggestion why there are 2 names to date, and does not
answer the valid point about what the names will be or could be when
the whole complex is open.

--
Nick

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Mar 17, 8:36 am, (Nick Leverton) wrote:

Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".

But this won't stop someone calling them 6Jav soon - or even 6Jap.

I think you could have just coined a phrase there, Nick :)


Well possibly :o)


The -ap bit has a SR connection - 2Hap - and Kent certainly has major
association with the 2Hap fleet even though the -a and the p have no
common meaining.

And again the were 6Pan (so now 6 ja-Pan) , 6Jap could also mean Japan
And Pancras (6 jap-pan) and so on, there are several possibilites
here.

Might provide some amusement for uk.railway debates in the 22nd
century when someone asks what 20th/21st century SR EMU acronyms
meant.


I have to add 'Jap' is not a term I would normally use myself - but I
can't help feeling it is an obvious one that might come into common
parlance.


--
Nick

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 16 Mar 2007 10:13:34 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

I guess FCC wouldn't be too keen on St Pancras Thameslink, but I'm
sure they don't have a carte blance with regards to the stations
naming.

Why not just "London St. Pancras"? It's effectively the same station
(cf Merseyrail).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 16 Mar 2007 12:49:24 -0700, "TheOneKEA"
wrote:

On Mar 16, 5:13 pm, "Mizter T" wrote:
Good point. AFAIAA the final name hasn't yet been decided/confirmed -
St. Pancras Midland Road is the "project name", as it were.

I guess FCC wouldn't be too keen on St Pancras Thameslink, but I'm
sure they don't have a carte blance with regards to the stations
naming.

Some people are already calling the Thameslink station 'St. Pancras
Midland Road Low Level' and the MML platforms 'St. Pancras Midland
Road High Level'.

I wonder if the CTRL-DS platforms will end up being called 'St.
Pancras Kentish Road'!

Surely it should be St Pancras Pancras Road.

--
Peter Lawrence

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 18 Mar, 15:51, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
Why not just "London St. Pancras"? It's effectively the same station

I was thinking that, considering King's Cross platforms 9-11 aren't
given a special name even though they're away from the main platforms.

You have King's Cross St Pancras for the underground, come upstairs
and go to King's Cross OR St Pancras. How complicated is that? Once in
either station, you go for the platform required by following the
signs or looking at a map. Why confuse things with another station,
which will be the same as we have now with King's Cross Thameslink!

Jonathan

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

jonmorris wrote:
On 18 Mar, 15:51, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
Why not just "London St. Pancras"? It's effectively the same
station

I was thinking that, considering King's Cross platforms 9-11 aren't
given a special name even though they're away from the main
platforms.

You have King's Cross St Pancras for the underground, come upstairs
and go to King's Cross OR St Pancras. How complicated is that? Once
in either station, you go for the platform required by following the
signs or looking at a map. Why confuse things with another station,
which will be the same as we have now with King's Cross Thameslink!

Gare du Nord in Paris is in a similar situation, having a large terminus
above ground and the RER through lines underground. The terminus has
platforms 1-21 (inter-city/international) and 30-36 (suburban), and the
RER below them has platforms 41-44. As with Kings Cross St Pancras, the
Métro platforms are regarded as a separate station.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
On Mar 16, 8:38 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message

groups.com... On Mar 16, 6:31 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Speaking of which, is there going to be a single domestic ticket office
at
St Pancras run by the majority TOC?
There already is one, run by MML. The ticket office for the Eurostar
and CTRL-DS services will probably be where the original MML ticket
office was located, at the front of the station near the LU SSL ticket
office.
I've since looked at the station plan, I can only see Eurostar mentioned at
the front of the station - I would have thought the 3 domestic services will
be colocated - there seems no reason for CTRL-DS and Eurostar to be together
surely?

Paul

That depends on whether or not CTRL-DS will be a turn-up-and-go
standard railway service, or if it will need all of the security
stuff. If the former is true (common sense would suggest such), then I
suspect that the MML ticket office will sell tickets for CTRL-DS
services. If the latter is true (a stupid move, IMO) then the Eurostar
office will be the place to go.

I have heard no noises about altering the ticket selling arrangements at
the Kent end, so I would surmise that it will just be a regular turn up
and go type service.

Robin

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

D7666 wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:36 am, (Nick Leverton) wrote:

Hitachi Class 395, not "Javelin".

But this won't stop someone calling them 6Jav soon - or even 6Jap.

I think you could have just coined a phrase there, Nick :)


Well possibly :o)


The -ap bit has a SR connection - 2Hap - and Kent certainly has major
association with the 2Hap fleet even though the -a and the p have no
common meaining.

My impression was that they were seen to take over from where the 2Hal
left off, they beign "half a lav", and I assume the "p" was some
indication of EP brakes.

And again the were 6Pan (so now 6 ja-Pan) , 6Jap could also mean Japan
And Pancras (6 jap-pan) and so on, there are several possibilites
here.

Or to continue the Southern's lavatory fixation, they could be 6Dis, as
they will have disabled lavatories, or 6Ret for retention tanks.

Robin

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 18 Mar, 23:36, "Richard J." wrote:
Gare du Nord in Paris is in a similar situation, having a large terminus
above ground and the RER through lines underground. The terminus has
platforms 1-21 (inter-city/international) and 30-36 (suburban), and the
RER below them has platforms 41-44. As with Kings Cross St Pancras, the
Métro platforms are regarded as a separate station.

Now is the chance for us to get it right. I suppose the only confusion
might arise when we get Thameslink 3-Billion, as I don't know how the
GN side will connect and where trains will terminate (some going to
King's Cross and some going through, via St Pancras)?

Jonathan

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On 19 Mar, 10:13, "jonmorris" wrote:
Now is the chance for us to get it right. I suppose the only confusion
might arise when we get Thameslink 3-Billion, as I don't know how the
GN side will connect and where trains will terminate (some going to
King's Cross and some going through, via St Pancras)?

There are new tunnels built as part of CTRL north of the new (St
Pancras Thameslink / Midland Road / whatever) station linking to the
ECML. They don't have any track in them at the moment - this will be
added under the Thameslink Project.

AIUI, all FCC trains that terminate in King's Cross during weekday
daytime hours will run through the Thameslink tunnels after the
project, leaving KX for GNER, Hull and Grand Central services only.

I'm not sure what will happen at weekends and evenings (when FCC local
services currently also run into KX instead of Moorgate).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

John B wrote:

AIUI, all FCC trains that terminate in King's Cross during weekday
daytime hours will run through the Thameslink tunnels after the
project, leaving KX for GNER, Hull and Grand Central services only.

I'm not sure what will happen at weekends and evenings (when FCC local
services currently also run into KX instead of Moorgate).

Presumably there will be capacity in the current suburban trainshed, once
vacated by outer suburban services.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 11:01:37AM -0000, Peter Masson wrote:

Southeastern and its predecessors make quite a habit of siting ticket
offices at stations they share with other operators well away from the Kent
platforms.

I thought there was one on the eastern side as well.

At Victoria the ticket office is on the Brighton side.

It's where the majority of the trains and the majority of the passengers
are.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Sobol's Law of Telecom Utilities:
Telcos are malicious; cablecos are simply clueless.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In message , at 11:05:44 on
Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Jack Taylor remarked:
AIUI, all FCC trains that terminate in King's Cross during weekday
daytime hours will run through the Thameslink tunnels after the
project, leaving KX for GNER, Hull and Grand Central services only.

I'm not sure what will happen at weekends and evenings (when FCC local
services currently also run into KX instead of Moorgate).

Presumably there will be capacity in the current suburban trainshed, once
vacated by outer suburban services.

There is capacity today, even before displacing the outer suburbans!
--
Roland Perry

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

Roland Perry wrote:

There is capacity today, even before displacing the outer suburbans!

Very true - although at weekends the main trainshed also gets used for
diverted Moorgate services. I was thinking more along the lines that once
the outer suburbans have started running through there will be the
opportunity to banish all "short" formations, such as the Moorgates and Hull
Trains, to the suburban trainshed (which by then will be next to the main
concourse) and reserve the main trainshed exclusively for full-length
formations.

St Pancras 'Midland Road'
 

In message , at 12:09:21 on
Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Jack Taylor remarked:
I was thinking more along the lines that once
the outer suburbans have started running through there will be the
opportunity to banish all "short" formations, such as the Moorgates and Hull
Trains, to the suburban trainshed (which by then will be next to the main
concourse) and reserve the main trainshed exclusively for full-length
formations.

Why? A posh shed for posh trains? Henry would be pleased !

Surely better to close the suburban platforms altogether at weekends,
and give people a shorter walk.

--
Roland Perry