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Croxley Rail Link Petition
There is now an oline petition to find funding for the building the Croxley Rail Link, please take the time to sign it. Click he We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to find funding for the Metropolitan Line extension to Watford Junc Many thanks John Burke WRUG |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
burkey wrote:
There is now an oline petition to find funding for the building the Croxley Rail Link, please take the time to sign it. Click he We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to find funding for the Metropolitan Line extension to Watford Junc Where's the link, John? |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 10:38 am, "burkey" wrote:
There is now an oline petition to find funding for the building the Croxley Rail Link, please take the time to sign it. Click he We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to find funding for the Metropolitan Line extension to Watford Junc Many thanks John Burke WRUG Why doesn't Tony's mate Ken fund it, now TfL controls the dc lines out to watford Junc as well. Mind you Ken is up to his eyeballs funding the East London Line, North London Line and the Olympics. Maybe they have sussed that there isn't really the local will for this link. Kevin |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
Kev wrote:
Why doesn't Tony's mate Ken fund it, now TfL controls the dc lines out to watford Junc as well. Mind you Ken is up to his eyeballs funding the East London Line, North London Line and the Olympics. Maybe they have sussed that there isn't really the local will for this link. Depends where 'local' is. For those of us out to the west or north-west of Watford (and probably the south-west as well) a direct link to Watford Junction and West Coast Main Line services would be warmly welcomed. The long trek from Watford Met, across Cassiobury Park and down Rickmansworth Road, is exceedingly tiresome! |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 2:38 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
Kev wrote: Why doesn't Tony's mate Ken fund it, now TfL controls the dc lines out to watford Junc as well. Mind you Ken is up to his eyeballs funding the East London Line, North London Line and the Olympics. Maybe they have sussed that there isn't really the local will for this link. Depends where 'local' is. For those of us out to the west or north-west of Watford (and probably the south-west as well) a direct link to Watford Junction and West Coast Main Line services would be warmly welcomed. The long trek from Watford Met, across Cassiobury Park and down Rickmansworth Road, is exceedingly tiresome! Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. Kevin |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
Jack, try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Croxleylink/
Kev, I'm sure you're aware that TfL have already committed funding to this project - £18m if memory serves me - as part of their five-year investment programme. This project would provide excellent network benefits and open up the commercial centre of Watford to rail access from large parts of north-west London and south Bucks. It suffers for falling between the gaps in public sector responsibility but is backed locally, regionally and in the Government Office for the region. Someone at DfT needs to have their arse kicked, I think, metaphorically speaking of course. I for one hope this project gets the go-ahead. THC |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 3:06 pm, "THC" wrote:
Kev, I'm sure you're aware that TfL have already committed funding to this project - £18m if memory serves me - as part of their five-year investment programme. This project would provide excellent network benefits and open up the commercial centre of Watford to rail access from large parts of north-west London and south Bucks. It suffers for falling between the gaps in public sector responsibility but is backed locally, regionally and in the Government Office for the region. Someone at DfT needs to have their arse kicked, I think, metaphorically speaking of course. I for one hope this project gets the go-ahead. Maybe I'm missing something obvious , but if the goal is to get the tube to watford junction wouldn't it be a damn site cheaper just to re- extend the Bakerloo line there? Who realistically is going to go all round the houses via the met line from central london? No doubt there will be a small amount of local traffic but realistically I doubt it will amount to much and certainly not enough to justify what will probably be quite an expensive project (bridges don't come cheap plus all the track + signalling will probably need renewing since its been left to rot by NR for 6 years). B2003 |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
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Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar, 15:30, "Boltar" wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something obvious , but if the goal is to get the tube to watford junction wouldn't it be a damn site cheaper just to re- extend the Bakerloo line there? Who realistically is going to go all round the houses via the met line from central london? No doubt there will be a small amount of local traffic but realistically I doubt it will amount to much and certainly not enough to justify what will probably be quite an expensive project (bridges don't come cheap plus all the track + signalling will probably need renewing since its been left to rot by NR for 6 years). It's for local traffic (one suggestion is Aylesbury to Watford trains) and to connect developments in west Watford with Watford Junction. The existing Met Watford branch does a healthy trade, despite its stupid location. The main service from Watford to London is Silverlink County (22 minutes to Euston), so no one would get either tube line all the way anyway. U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
"Boltar" wrote Maybe I'm missing something obvious , but if the goal is to get the tube to watford junction wouldn't it be a damn site cheaper just to re- extend the Bakerloo line there? Who realistically is going to go all round the houses via the met line from central london? AIUI the Bakerloo will take over the Watford New Line in a few years time. The purpose of the Croxley Link iis for connection with the WCML and access to Watford High Street. The stub to Watford Met is badly sited and could be abandoned, leaving land with development value which will contribute to the cost of building the link. Peter |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
Yeah, this is a situation where extending both the Bakerloo and Met
lines to Watford Junction is definitely a realistic possibility, and both will have different purposes and different transport flows. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 12:07?pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
burkey wrote: There is now an oline petition to find funding for the building the Croxley Rail Link, please take the time to sign it. Click he We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to find funding for the Metropolitan Line extension to Watford Junc Where's the link, John? Jack, Sorry about the missing link! Thanks to the others for putting it right! John Burke |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar 2007 06:51:12 -0700, "Kev" wrote:
On Mar 29, 2:38 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote: Kev wrote: Why doesn't Tony's mate Ken fund it, now TfL controls the dc lines out to watford Junc as well. Mind you Ken is up to his eyeballs funding the East London Line, North London Line and the Olympics. Maybe they have sussed that there isn't really the local will for this link. TfL doesn't control the DC lines, it will only be responsible for service specification and re-franchising of the Silverlink Metro service from sometime this year while the infrastructure remains with Network Rail. Depends where 'local' is. For those of us out to the west or north-west of Watford (and probably the south-west as well) a direct link to Watford Junction and West Coast Main Line services would be warmly welcomed. The long trek from Watford Met, across Cassiobury Park and down Rickmansworth Road, is exceedingly tiresome! Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar 2007 10:48:52 -0700, "sweek"
wrote: Yeah, this is What is ? a situation where extending both the Bakerloo and Met lines to Watford Junction is definitely a realistic possibility, and both will have different purposes and different transport flows. Bakerloo tube stock is generally incompatible with both LU surface stock and the NR-style stock announced as intended to be used on the "London Overground" services which will eventually use the DC lines, so those are two reasons for not re-extending Bakerloo Line services to Watford Junction. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar, 20:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
Bakerloo tube stock is generally incompatible with both LU surface stock and the NR-style stock announced as intended to be used on the "London Overground" services which will eventually use the DC lines, so those are two reasons for not re-extending Bakerloo Line services to Watford Junction. What's your point? If the Bakerloo were extended it would no longer share any track with National Rail stock, and there are four platforms (two islands) at Watford Junction for DC Lines and trains via Croxley, so two could be Met height and two could be tube height. U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
... Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. That's a circular argument. Of course they are currently using cars in preference to the Croxley Link, because the Link doesn't exist. Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Rickmansworth, Pinner etc without going via London. Government keeps talking about capacity improvements - but they need to understand that sometimes this involves spending some money. Regards Jonathan |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar 2007 13:29:52 -0700, "Mr Thant"
wrote: On 29 Mar, 20:45, Charles Ellson wrote: Bakerloo tube stock is generally incompatible with both LU surface stock and the NR-style stock announced as intended to be used on the "London Overground" services which will eventually use the DC lines, so those are two reasons for not re-extending Bakerloo Line services to Watford Junction. What's your point? If the Bakerloo were extended it would no longer share any track with National Rail stock, and there are four platforms (two islands) at Watford Junction for DC Lines and trains via Croxley, so two could be Met height and two could be tube height. The DC line is only one part of what will form "London Overground". If the information in :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Overground is correct then the class 378 NR-style stock is already on the way. The DC line is part of what was built as a network of lines with common equipment and working arrangements, it is not a self-contained line. If anything it would be more sensible to run Met trains down the DC line from Watford to East/South London as they (apart from their loading gauge) are much more suitable for the line than tube trains. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:08:21 +0100, "Jonathan Morton"
wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. That's a circular argument. Of course they are currently using cars in preference to the Croxley Link, because the Link doesn't exist. Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Harrow and Wealdstone to Euston or Watford Junction ? Rickmansworth, Rickmansworth (Church Street) to ditto ? Pinner etc Hatch End to ditto ? without going via London. Government keeps talking about capacity improvements - but they need to understand that sometimes this involves spending some money. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:08:21 +0100, "Jonathan Morton" wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message . .. Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. That's a circular argument. Of course they are currently using cars in preference to the Croxley Link, because the Link doesn't exist. Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Harrow and Wealdstone to Euston or Watford Junction ? Rickmansworth, Rickmansworth (Church Street) to ditto ? Would that be the Rickmansworth Church Street that closed in 1952? Peter Smyth |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
Charles Ellson wrote:
The DC line is part of what was built as a network of lines with common equipment and working arrangements Whatever gave you that idea? The Silverlink Metro is a mess of orphaned lines built by countless different companies that have been munged together to form a very mixed up network. The only line the DC line was built in conjunction with is in fact the Bakerloo. As far as rolling stock goes, TfL haven't ordered enough 378s to cover all lines and provide an improved service, and they'll take several years to all arrive. I wouldn't be surprised if the DC line never gets 378s, and goes straight to modified Victoria Line stock, which will become available around the same time. U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
There is now an oline petition
YAWN These are now more trendy to have, than the actual reason for them |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 10:08 pm, "Jonathan Morton"
wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. That's a circular argument. Of course they are currently using cars in preference to the Croxley Link, because the Link doesn't exist. Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Rickmansworth, Pinner etc without going via London. Government keeps talking about capacity improvements - but they need to understand that sometimes this involves spending some money. Regards Jonathan I can just imagine all those business users getting out of their cars if the link was there. The link doesn't actually do anything about increasing capacity. I do actually agree with the link, my only concern is why the cost is so high and whether it is cost affective. I can think of much better ways of delivering a better service for the people in SW Herts for the amount of money being spent. Kevin |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 29 Mar 2007 15:50:26 -0700, "Mr Thant"
wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: The DC line is part of what was built as a network of lines with common equipment and working arrangements Whatever gave you that idea? The Silverlink Metro is a mess of orphaned lines built by countless different companies that have been munged together to form a very mixed up network. The only line the DC line was built in conjunction with is in fact the Bakerloo. That shows you know 6ugger all about it. The DC line is one line within an electrification scheme of the London and North Western Railway which involved not only the current DC and North London Lines but also services to Earls Court, Kew Bridge, Croxley Green and Rickmansworth. It was a combination of new build and upgrading using common rolling stock and electrification. snip |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:04:37 +0100, "Peter Smyth"
wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:08:21 +0100, "Jonathan Morton" wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... Ask the general populace of SW Herts about what they thought of the Croxley rail link and I doubt that 95% would know what you were talking about. Probabley need to make that 98%. Bearing in mind that the bulk of WCML users will be business users they will be using taxi or private car to Watford Junc anyway so I don't think that they will be too bothered. That's a circular argument. Of course they are currently using cars in preference to the Croxley Link, because the Link doesn't exist. Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Harrow and Wealdstone to Euston or Watford Junction ? Rickmansworth, Rickmansworth (Church Street) to ditto ? Would that be the Rickmansworth Church Street that closed in 1952? Correct. Apparently there weren't enough people wanting to go to/from Watford or further on. |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar, 18:05, Charles Ellson wrote:
That shows you know 6ugger all about it. The DC line is one line within an electrification scheme of the London and North Western Railway which involved not only the current DC and North London Lines but also services to Earls Court, Kew Bridge, Croxley Green and Rickmansworth. It was a combination of new build and upgrading using common rolling stock and electrification. None of which has anything to do with London Overground. U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar 2007 10:36:20 -0700, "Mr Thant"
wrote: On 30 Mar, 18:05, Charles Ellson wrote: That shows you know 6ugger all about it. The DC line is one line within an electrification scheme of the London and North Western Railway which involved not only the current DC and North London Lines but also services to Earls Court, Kew Bridge, Croxley Green and Rickmansworth. It was a combination of new build and upgrading using common rolling stock and electrification. None of which has anything to do with London Overground. So TfL is building new railway lines for the service ? |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar, 19:29, Charles Ellson wrote:
So TfL is building new railway lines for the service ? No, but as you mentioned, only a fraction of the old network exists (or at least, is available to LO services), so it's not really relevant to current and future service provision. U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar 2007 11:47:18 -0700, "Mr Thant"
wrote: On 30 Mar, 19:29, Charles Ellson wrote: So TfL is building new railway lines for the service ? No, but as you mentioned, only a fraction of the old network exists (or at least, is available to LO services), so it's not really relevant to current and future service provision. The greater part of the network still exists in use. Apart from the diversion of the eastern end of the NLL and no services now running via Primrose Hill, the two main sections are running the same core services (apart from reduction in traffic) much the same as they have for the last 80-odd years. It is hardly "a fraction". |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 30, 7:47 pm, "Mr Thant"
wrote: No, but as you mentioned, only a fraction of the old network exists (or at least, is available to LO services), so it's not really relevant to current and future service provision. I'm sorry, but I agree with the earlier comment that you seem to know 6ugger all about it - or at least not about the history of it - since the majority of the old network DOES exist. The only bits that do not exist today are Broad Street itself from Dalston Junction, and the short electrified sections to Kensington and Earls Court, and the Rickmansworth bit. The rest - Euston to Watford and Richmond - Dalston (junction) remain - by far the greatest mileage, the core routes of the old network, and the core routes of Silverlink metro today. -- Nick |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 29, 7:06 am, "THC" wrote:
Jack, tryhttp://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Croxleylink/ Kev, I'm sure you're aware that TfL have already committed funding to this project - £18m if memory serves me - as part of their five-year investment programme. This project would provide excellent network benefits and open up the commercial centre of Watford to rail access from large parts of north-west London and south Bucks. It suffers for falling between the gaps in public sector responsibility but is backed locally, regionally and in the Government Office for the region. Someone at DfT needs to have their arse kicked, I think, metaphorically speaking of course. I for one hope this project gets the go-ahead. THC My "signature" is on the pettition. I sincerely hope this happens. It will give Metroland residents a direct link to the WCML. I am sure it will save many trips to Euston by way of Euston Square. :-) It remains to be seen if the politicians have the will to make this connection happen. Adrian |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 30, 9:04 pm, "Adrian" wrote:
it will save many trips to Euston by way of Euston Square. :-) If that is the priority, new exits at the far eastern end of Euston Square with steps/escalators inclined towards Euston would be a far more cost effective solution. -- Nick |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
... Sounds like a good idea to me, if it gives a link to the WCML northbound from places like Harrow, Harrow and Wealdstone to Euston or Watford Junction ? Nowhere near Harrow. Etc. Is it just a co-incidence that this "oh my god, hands up in horror, what's the point, nothing can be done and even if it could it wouldn't work so why try" thread appears at the same time as "Airdrie to Bathgate re-opening". Regards Jonathan |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
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Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar, 21:04, "Adrian" wrote:
On Mar 29, 7:06 am, "THC" wrote: Jack, tryhttp://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Croxleylink/ Kev, I'm sure you're aware that TfL have already committed funding to this project - £18m if memory serves me - as part of their five-year investment programme. This project would provide excellent network benefits and open up the commercial centre of Watford to rail access from large parts of north-west London and south Bucks. It suffers for falling between the gaps in public sector responsibility but is backed locally, regionally and in the Government Office for the region. Someone at DfT needs to have their arse kicked, I think, metaphorically speaking of course. I for one hope this project gets the go-ahead. THC My "signature" is on the pettition. I sincerely hope this happens. It will give Metroland residents a direct link to the WCML. I am sure it will save many trips to Euston by way of Euston Square. :-) Ah, but as people will find out at a briefing on Tuesday, from December 2008 VWC will see a serious reduction in calls at Watford Junction. So will the link be needed for that particular purpose. (just a note again here - DfT Rail basically decides on the calling pattern for franchises and wants to push people from Watford onto the new West Midlands franchise semi-fast trains that will serve Watford Jn every hour - before the usual anti-Virgin flames ignite again). However I am personally in favour of restoring the Croxley Rail Link and will sign the petition - even as a Manchester resident! Tony |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On Mar 30, 2:23 pm, "D7666" wrote:
On Mar 30, 9:44 pm, wrote: I don't think that that is the priority. I agree - I am sure it is not, it just appeared it was the previous commentators' priority. -- Nick On the contrary, it was precisely my point. Currently any resident of Metroland wanting to use what BR termed "InterCity" services from Euston had to make his or her way to that terminus. This link will make the WCML directly accessible at Watford Junction. Adrian |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
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Croxley Rail Link Petition
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Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 31 Mar, 13:38, Tom Anderson wrote:
This is for Watford - London trips? Aren't most of those set-down only already? Only for Virgin. The semi-fasts (Silverlink County/West Midlands) and local (Silverlink Metro/London Overground) are meant for journeys to London (journey times are 15/25/50 minutes respectively). U |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
Ah, but as people will find out at a briefing on Tuesday, from December 2008 VWC will see a serious reduction in calls at Watford Junction. So will the link be needed for that particular purpose. (just a note again here - DfT Rail basically decides on the calling pattern for franchises and wants to push people from Watford onto the new West Midlands franchise semi-fast trains that will serve Watford Jn every hour - before the usual anti-Virgin flames ignite again). However I am personally in favour of restoring the Croxley Rail Link and will sign the petition - even as a Manchester resident! Tony What briefing is this? Is it open to the public? Burkey |
Croxley Rail Link Petition
On 30 Mar 2007 12:13:55 -0700, "D7666" wrote:
On Mar 30, 7:47 pm, "Mr Thant" wrote: No, but as you mentioned, only a fraction of the old network exists (or at least, is available to LO services), so it's not really relevant to current and future service provision. I'm sorry, but I agree with the earlier comment that you seem to know 6ugger all about it - or at least not about the history of it - since the majority of the old network DOES exist. The only bits that do not exist today are Broad Street itself from Dalston Junction, and the short electrified sections to Kensington and Earls Court, and the Rickmansworth bit. I suggest that the Kensington section still exists! Other non-existent bits are the direct kink from Bushey to the branches and (as an electrified passenger line) the Kew Bridge branch. The rest - Euston to Watford and Richmond - Dalston (junction) remain - by far the greatest mileage, the core routes of the old network, and the core routes of Silverlink metro today. -- Nick -- Peter Lawrence |
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