"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 25 May, 08:33, eastender wrote:
In article . com,
Mr Thant wrote:

I went and had a look yesterday. All of the new bridges are much
narrower than the viaduct.

Indeed. I think we should be thankful that it's happening at all given
the appalling transport record in this country.

Its a fairly half hearted effort though. In reality what are they
building? 1 new viaduct and a few new bridges , refurbishing a disused
route and putting a link to NR down at new cross gate. Dalston
Junction is a pointless terminus and Highbury isn't much better since
it'll cause immense crowding on the victoria line as everyone goes 1
stop from Finsbury park. Finsbury was the obvious terminus but for
reasons best know to themselves thats not going to happen even though
they could still have had the NLL link anyway.


In a joined up world they could have had GN services running through to
destinations in the south east (and vice versa obviously) - and probably
more cost effective than joining the GN into Thameslink at St Pancras,
perhaps?

Paul

Boltar wrote:

Its a fairly half hearted effort though. In reality what are they
building? 1 new viaduct and a few new bridges , refurbishing a disused
route and putting a link to NR down at new cross gate. Dalston
Junction is a pointless terminus and Highbury isn't much better since
it'll cause immense crowding on the victoria line as everyone goes 1
stop from Finsbury park. Finsbury was the obvious terminus but for
reasons best know to themselves thats not going to happen even though
they could still have had the NLL link anyway.

The point is that this track should never have been taken out in the first
place. And Dalston is not a pointless terminus for those of us who live in
Dalston, and it will be extended to Highbury, which means people in E8 and
around will have a choice of getting onto the tube via Vic line or
District/H&C at Whitechapel. Plus Jubilee and at a pinch the DLR at
Shadwell. It's just a shame there's no exchange with the Central.

E.

On 25 May, 11:07, "Paul Scott" wrote:
In a joined up world they could have had GN services running through to
destinations in the south east (and vice versa obviously) - and probably
more cost effective than joining the GN into Thameslink at St Pancras,
perhaps?

The central destinations available on Thameslink are far more
attractive than the ELL, and you'd have to build a flyover at the
Canonbury Curve junction if you wanted to run more than a couple of
trains an hour that way and not kill all other NLL traffic (Thameslink
2000 has 14 tph from the GN).

Having the outer-suburban services go through central-ish London and
the ELL act as a local service between SE/East/NE London makes a lot
more sense to me.

U

On Fri, 25 May 2007 11:07:54 +0100, Paul Scott wrote:

In a joined up world they could have had GN services running through to
destinations in the south east (and vice versa obviously) - and probably
more cost effective than joining the GN into Thameslink at St Pancras,
perhaps?

And also completely pointless. The GN connection to Thameslink is not
being built so that people from Stevenage can get to Sevenoaks. The
whole point is for people travelling from GN stations to have through
trains to the central London stations at Farringdon, Blackfriars, etc.

Whether or not a link looks pointless to you tends to depend on whether you need it. No link will be pointless to everyone. And I can see this one being quite successful as there has been a distinct movement of jobs towards docklands which it connects to via Shadwell. There is also a fair amount of office space near the entrance to the Rotherhythe tunnel and I know people who commute from West Croyden to there (I also know someone who commutes from Daganham to Croydon!

The NLL, which was thought to be pointless and useless is now overcrowded for most of the day. The DLR, described by one writer as a toy train set when it opened, has been successful and is now expanding.

However I am disappointed that we cannot have some sort of orbital service that connect to all the inter-city services. so that someone from say Watford doesn't need to go through London to get to Bristol or South Wales.

Paula

On 25 May, 11:09, eastender wrote:
The point is that this track should never have been taken out in the first
place. And Dalston is not a pointless terminus for those of us who live in
Dalston, and it will be extended to Highbury, which means people in E8 and
around will have a choice of getting onto the tube via Vic line or

Yes , but with the best will in the world , the combined populations
of users from dalston and highbury are hardly going to make the
project worthwhile. In reality it should be a shortcut for people from
the north and south to get to docklands via changing at canada water
or shadwell and avoiding central london entirely, end of story. For
the south that will probably work , for the north it won't. If it
terminated at Finsbury you'd have the piccadilly & victoria line
catchment areas plus the whole of the east coast main line who could
switch to the ELL there. Instead they'll all pile on the victoria line
for one stop. Terminating it at Highbury is a poor solution and smacks
of treasury cost cutting.

B2003

Boltar wrote:

Yes , but with the best will in the world , the combined populations
of users from dalston and highbury are hardly going to make the
project worthwhile.

If you seriously think that these trains won't be heavily used you must be
living in a different London.

E.

On May 25, 2:16 pm, Boltar wrote:

For
the south that will probably work , for the north it won't. If it
terminated at Finsbury you'd have the piccadilly & victoria line
catchment areas plus the whole of the east coast main line who could
switch to the ELL there. Instead they'll all pile on the victoria line
for one stop. Terminating it at Highbury is a poor solution and smacks
of treasury cost cutting.

You're forgetting the Northern City Line, so all inner-suburban
services also call at H&I (except at weekends when it's closed, but
that's a separate issue). That means the only ECML passengers needing
to use the Victoria Line are coming from Potters Bar and points north.
For Piccadilly Line passengers the switch to the Victoria at Finsbury
Park is so easy as to be non-existent, though the overcrowding is a
fair point.

OTOH, going to Finsbury Park requires 8 movements on the flat every
hour across the NLL freight lines, which doesn't sound viable to me.

U

On 25 May, 15:00, eastender wrote:
Boltar wrote:
Yes , but with the best will in the world , the combined populations
of users from dalston and highbury are hardly going to make the
project worthwhile.

If you seriously think that these trains won't be heavily used you must be
living in a different London.

I'll wager the northern section will be hardly used much more than the
current ELL until it links to highbury and even then it won't be that
heavy. The southern section will probably be very busy though from the
start with all the docklands commuters.

B2003

Paula wrote:

However I am disappointed that we cannot have some sort of orbital
service that connect to all the inter-city services. so that someone
from say Watford doesn't need to go through London to get to Bristol
or South Wales.

The alterations to the Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction West London
Line service, integrating it via through running with the North London Line
to Stratford, plus extending ELL services across South London to Clapham
Junction, will effectively address this. Of course, how many people will
prefer a scenic tour of the suburbs over a similar length of time on the
Underground remains to be demonstrated.