DLR Penalty Fares
 

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

DLR Penalty Fares
 

Oliver Beattie wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

For penalty fares issued on TfL services the relevant legislation is
Schedule 17 of the Greater London Authority Act 1999.

Peter Smyth

DLR Penalty Fares
 

"Oliver Beattie" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

For railways generally its the Railways Act 1989, The Railways (Penalty
Fares) Regs 1994, and the Penalty Fares Rules 2002; but for TfL it seems to
be the GLA Act 1999 Schedule 17.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1999/90029-be.htm#sch17

Paul S

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 13, 7:27 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

You got busted, eh? Didn't swipe in I suppose... PAYG?
An important thing to remember also is that if you buy any travelcard
then your Oyster has PAYG enabled; so if you have a zone 1-4 weekly,
and you don't swipe in, and there is otherwise no way of knowing
whence you have travelled, then you are liable for a penalty fare. You
can appeal against that and you may well get away with it.

If you have PAYG only and you didn't swipe in on the DLR, then if you
got caught on the Underground then you would normally be prosecuted
for fare evasion. Perhaps you were lucky. I don't know your circs.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 13, 8:23 pm, Offramp wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:27 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

You got busted, eh? Didn't swipe in I suppose... PAYG?
An important thing to remember also is that if you buy any travelcard
then your Oyster has PAYG enabled; so if you have a zone 1-4 weekly,
and you don't swipe in, and there is otherwise no way of knowing
whence you have travelled, then you are liable for a penalty fare. You
can appeal against that and you may well get away with it.


There is not yet and has never been any way of knowing for sure where
you've been with a travelcard. If you have a zone 1 - 4 travelcard,
all that the (what are they called? captain?) on the DLR will do is
confirm that it is valid for where you currently are.

I am not aware even of any moves towards forcing people to touch in
with travelcards, but perhaps someone knows more.

I've certainly never done it and never had any problem as a result.




If you have PAYG only and you didn't swipe in on the DLR, then if you
got caught on the Underground then you would normally be prosecuted
for fare evasion. Perhaps you were lucky. I don't know your circs.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

In article . com,
Oliver Beattie wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?


How did you get caught? I think the DLR is inconsistent - there are
gates at Bank but not at other stations, so if you use it on the odd
time as I did to go to City Airport you can wonder - briefly if you're
rushing for a plane - why there was no gate at the other end.

I got caught on the way back, very tired after a long trip - but wasn't
given a penalty - just made to get off and swipe the card at some
mid-point. Several other passengers also had to do the same.

E.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:27:28 -0700, Oliver Beattie
wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie


its on the TFl web site.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 13, 7:27 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

As for using your Oyster card, how to use it is laid down int e
Conditions of Carriage, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/May2007.pdf.

"6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use London Underground and National Rail services, you
must touch your Oyster
card on the card reader at both the start and the end of your journey.
If the ticket gates at stations are
open you must still touch your Oyster card on the card reader."

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 14, 1:15 am, Martyn Dawe wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:27:28 -0700, Oliver Beattie

wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

its on the TFl web site.

http://ourcommunity.dlr.co.uk/pdf/co...f_carriage.pdf

"6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card
on the card reader."

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 14, 8:53 am, Offramp wrote:
On Jun 14, 1:15 am, Martyn Dawe wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:27:28 -0700, Oliver Beattie

wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

its on the TFl web site.

http://ourcommunity.dlr.co.uk/pdf/co...f_carriage.pdf

"6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card
on the card reader."



The paragraph quoted is nonsensical, since it refers in general to
touching at the start and end of the journey where there might be no
Oyster reader "when you use Docklands Light Railway, London
Underground and National Rail".

There is also a following paragraph about presenting your Oyster card
for inspection at stations where there is no reader.

This doesn't really cover the situation where your ticket is inspected
while you are travelling, and no one can tell whether or not you are
travelling to or from a gated station.

In practice, I have never had any problem presenting a travelcard
valid where I currently am, regardless of any previous touching.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On 14 Jun, 23:01, MIG wrote:
On Jun 14, 8:53 am, Offramp wrote:



On Jun 14, 1:15 am, Martyn Dawe wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:27:28 -0700, Oliver Beattie

wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

its on the TFl web site.

http://ourcommunity.dlr.co.uk/pdf/co...f_carriage.pdf

"6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card
on the card reader."

The paragraph quoted is nonsensical, since it refers in general to
touching at the start and end of the journey where there might be no
Oyster reader "when you use Docklands Light Railway, London
Underground and National Rail".

There is also a following paragraph about presenting your Oyster card
for inspection at stations where there is no reader.

This doesn't really cover the situation where your ticket is inspected
while you are travelling, and no one can tell whether or not you are
travelling to or from a gated station.

In practice, I have never had any problem presenting a travelcard
valid where I currently am, regardless of any previous touching.

I thought that touching in/out was only required for Oyster Pay and Go
and for ANY Oyster card at gated stations.
I never touch in and out on DLR or Bendybuses. I am sure that's why
people think fare evasion is so high on them.

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 13, 8:23 pm, Offramp wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:27 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,
I wondered if anyone could let me know whether the The British Rail
(Penalty Fares) Act 1989 applies here? If not, if you could possibly
point me to what act does apply?

Many Thanks!
Oliver Beattie

You got busted, eh? Didn't swipe in I suppose... PAYG?
An important thing to remember also is that if you buy any travelcard
then your Oyster has PAYG enabled; so if you have a zone 1-4 weekly,
and you don't swipe in, and there is otherwise no way of knowing
whence you have travelled, then you are liable for a penalty fare. You
can appeal against that and you may well get away with it.

If you have PAYG only and you didn't swipe in on the DLR, then if you
got caught on the Underground then you would normally be prosecuted
for fare evasion. Perhaps you were lucky. I don't know your circs.

How can forgetting to swipe be construed as fare evasion, the
deliberate act of evading the fare. I guess a revenue inspector would
say we've heard that excuse before but if it happens to be true then
tough. What about people who genuinely lose their tickets or have them
stolen.

Kevin

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On 13 Jun, 19:27, Oliver Beattie wrote:
Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,

Did you give them your real name and address? Silly boy. Just make
something up and make sure your Oyster isn't registered.

B2003

DLR Penalty Fares
 

The never-ending hectoring messages on LUL bang on about "Oyster PAYG
customers(sic) should remember to touch in /touch out to pay the
corrrect fare". No mention of "Oyster Travelcard" users. And who
remembers when it was to pay the "cheapest fare" (what happened to
that?).

DLR Penalty Fares
 

Exactly just as on LUL where revenue staff still consult an address
database that's around 3 years' old - useless! The transient London
population, esp re. those most likely to evade fares, means that this
info is worthless to them, but they still rely on it...

DLR Penalty Fares
 

Hey Everyone,

Many thanks for your replies. Basically, I'll give you a run-down of
what happened that day, see if any of you can make any sense of it. I
personally think it's due to an error in the Oyster system; I know it
sounds crazy, but please hear me out.

That morning, I'd been to quite a lot of places on business. I'd just
been from North Greenwich, on the Jubilee Line, to Canary Wharf, where
it would have been impossible for me not to have Touched Out from the
Tube as it's all Ticket Barriers there. According to the Ticket
Inspector, I had not Touched Out at Canary Wharf, even though the
Oyster Help-line people say that I in fact did.

Anyway, I'd just come from North Greenwich - Canary Wharf, where I
spent about an hour on some business, grabbed a bite to eat and then
got on the DLR at Heron Quays to go to Custom House. I had a price cap
anyway (as Oyster people confirmed) so none of my journeys that day
would have cost me anything more anyway. I changed onto another DLR
train at Poplar, and spent about 10 minutes at Custom House (just a
quickie) - after I Touched Out there. After the 10 minutes or so, I
had a bit of difficult touching back in - I had to try a few times
before it went green, but I figured that it was just because I wasn't
removing it from my wallet. Anyway, in the end it did go green so I
thought that must be all OK.

I got on a DLR going to Tower Gateway, on which two ticker inspectors
got on at Poplar. I gave them my Oyster card, and they both spent
about 2 minutes looking at their reader thing before informing me I
didn't have a valid Oyster Card, and would have to pay a £20 fine. I
tried to explain to them what I had done that day, but they just told
me (quite rudely, in fact) that I had to pay the fine, or there would
be 'action taken against me'.

Having never received a fine previously, I didn't know that I had 21
days in which to pay, and the ticket inspectors obviously took
advantage of this by making me pay right there and then (in cash). I
did so with a view to taking it up with Tfl as soon as I had finished
with my business. I did so about an hour later, and they told me to go
to a ticket office to get a printed Oyster usage statement. I got that
from Embankment, and here's what it said (notice my markup to indicate
that it was wrong):

26/05 12:22: Add Pre Pay Covent Garden (£10.00)
*****loads of missing journeys here*****
12/06 10:23: Bus Boarding Route 47
12.06 10:23: *price cap applied*
*****again, some missing journeys*****
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
*****should have been N Greenwich - Canary Wharf, then Heron Quays -
Custom House*****
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
12/06 11:59: N Greenwich - Custom House: £0.00
*****I would love to know how I managed all those in 1 minute!*****
12/06 12:28: N Greenwich - Tower Gateway
*****How was I still travelling from from North Greenwich I do not
know ;)*****

Strange or what? Anyway, I've written a very nice letter to DLR (I'll
post it if anyone's interested) to get my money back (Oyster card
informed me I _was_ entitled to a refund as I had Touched Out/In
properly everywhere, but DLR on the phone seemed to think
differently). It's quite a corker (I'm charging an administration fee,
on top - cheeky I know, but I spent about an hour on the phone, then
the time to write the letter and to get the statement from the arse of
a man at Embankment).

If anyone can make head or tail of this, please feel free to tell me
off if I'm wrong :)

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 15, 11:17 am, Boltar wrote:
On 13 Jun, 19:27, Oliver Beattie wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Having just been issued a £20 Penalty Fare demand from DLR officials,

Did you give them your real name and address? Silly boy. Just make
something up and make sure your Oyster isn't registered.

B2003

I bought the Oyster online a while back :(

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 16, 2:20 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:
I got that
from Embankment, and here's what it said (notice my markup to indicate
that it was wrong):

Can you access your history online? The display there shows each touch
in and out rather than consolidating it into journeys, and thus is
much more easy to decode.

U

DLR Penalty Fares
 

On Jun 16, 3:09 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 16, 2:20 pm, Oliver Beattie wrote:

I got that
from Embankment, and here's what it said (notice my markup to indicate
that it was wrong):

Can you access your history online? The display there shows each touch
in and out rather than consolidating it into journeys, and thus is
much more easy to decode.

U

Yeah, I can, and that confirms that I did touch in/out as I said
(Canary Wharf, Heron Quays, etc...) Wierd.