On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:53:41 -0700, wrote:

Sounds like a good old fashioned misunderstanding - motorman thought
he had been told to take the train back south and assumed therefore it
was a valid movement and that he had been given permission to depart.

A similar incident happened a few years ago at somewhere like Euston,
told to reverse his train (via shunt move) he simply walked to the
opposite end cab and was already to head off wrong line - can't
remember what stopped him. As a result fixed reds were hurriedly
installed at all platform 'wrong' ends presumably with trainstops, but
before starting in other direction they must check the tripcock is
correctly primed, in this case it evidently wasn't.

There would seem to be a gap in driver training.

Don't they have wrong line orders any more?

Rob

On 14 Jun, 21:20, "Clive D. W. Feather" c...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
In article .com,
Boltar writes

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.
You'd think he might have noticed something like that. What did he
do , see there was no signal at all and just thought "ooh , that must
mean green"?

Um, no signal *does* mean green.

I very much doubt that rule applies at a station.

B2003

On Jun 14, 6:52 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Jun 14, 4:34 pm, Christopher A.Lee wrote:



One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at that
end of the platform.

You'd think he might have noticed something like that. What did he
do , see there was no signal at all and just thought "ooh , that must
mean green"? What a dick. I hope he's fired just like any bus or truck
driver would be if they drove the wrong way down a main road though
I'm sure Bob Crowe will crawl out from under his rock at some point
and try and blame LU or Metronet for it.

B2003

Something doesn't ring true here. I am an occassional user of Camden
but I think that even I would know which platform I was on and if I
was about set off in the wrong direction. Some how a driver gets out
of a train in the Edgware platform but then gets in the back of a
train in the HB platform and drives off SB. Wouldn't he have noticed
something odd about the directions he took on foot. We are not talking
a non underground savvy tourist here.

Kevin

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 Jun, 21:37, chunky munky wrote:
On Jun 14, 9:20 pm, "Clive D. W. Feather" c...@on-the-





train.demon.co.uk wrote:
In article .com,
Boltar writes

One wonders why the motorman didn't notice there was no signal at
that
end of the platform.
You'd think he might have noticed something like that. What did he
do , see there was no signal at all and just thought "ooh , that must
mean green"?

Um, no signal *does* mean green. Unlit signal - not the same thing -
means red.

Having said that, I can't offhand think of any LU station that doesn't
have a starting signal at the end of the platform.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web:
http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

There is a rumour that there was a Fixed Red Light but this was
"bagged" over. Dont know about the associated train stop but within
the past few months contractors working for Tube Lines have concreted
one over in error that caused delays to the train service.

Stations without station starters are Croxley (Southbound) and
Chesham, some others do have them a fair way out of the platform.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a good old fashioned misunderstanding - motorman thought
he had been told to take the train back south and assumed therefore it
was a valid movement and that he had been given permission to depart.

A similar incident happened a few years ago at somewhere like Euston,
told to reverse his train (via shunt move) he simply walked to the
opposite end cab and was already to head off wrong line - can't
remember what stopped him. As a result fixed reds were hurriedly
installed at all platform 'wrong' ends presumably with trainstops, but
before starting in other direction they must check the tripcock is
correctly primed, in this case it evidently wasn't.

There would seem to be a gap in driver training.

AIUI the fixed reds were installed, followingv earlier incidents, at
stations where a reversing move is possible - in one direction this would be
via a shunt move, while in the other direction the reversal is directly from
the platform. As these moves are comaparatively uncommon, for any driver at
a particular station, it must be easy to confuse whether or not a shunt move
is needed.

However, in the warren of passageways at a station like Camden Town (or even
Warren Street ;-) ) it is easy to get disoriented and lose all sense of
direction - perhaps this is what happened to the driver or Sunday evening.

Peter

However, in the warren of passageways at a station like Camden Town (or even
Warren Street ;-) ) it is easy to get disoriented and lose all sense of
direction - perhaps this is what happened to the driver or Sunday evening.

Camden has to be one of the easiest stations to negotiate, unless you
were using the short interchange at the southern end and lets face it
the driver of a northbound train wouldn't have been usung that tunnel.

What I don't understand is anybody with a little knowledge of Camden,
let alone a driver, would know that on the HB platform the platform
would have been on the LHS. Why didn't the driver think that there was
something odd about the platform on his RHS. Or did he think he was
driving a southbound train heading for Euston.

Kevin

Kev wrote:

Something doesn't ring true here. I am an occassional user of Camden
but I think that even I would know which platform I was on and if I
was about set off in the wrong direction. Some how a driver gets out
of a train in the Edgware platform but then gets in the back of a
train in the HB platform and drives off SB. Wouldn't he have noticed
something odd about the directions he took on foot. We are not talking
a non underground savvy tourist here.

He might never set foot on the station.

On Jun 15, 12:25 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Kev wrote:

Something doesn't ring true here. I am an occassional user of Camden
but I think that even I would know which platform I was on and if I
was about set off in the wrong direction. Some how a driver gets out
of a train in the Edgware platform but then gets in the back of a
train in the HB platform and drives off SB. Wouldn't he have noticed
something odd about the directions he took on foot. We are not talking
a non underground savvy tourist here.

He might never set foot on the station.

Then that is really scarey that a highly professional, well paid
driver can't follow the simple signs that all the rest of us have to
follow. Alternatively if he was that lost could he have asked one of
the passengers that just got off his/her own train to hold his/her
hand. Camden is quite simple, from the front of the train walk to the
centre of the station and follow the signs for the HB platform,
basically turn left then walk straight then turn left again to head
back the way you came. It seems odd that on reaching the HB platform
he didn't think to turn back on the direction he had headed from the
train in the Edgware platfom. How many times had this driver driven a
train through Camden.
Isn't the driver responsible for the safety of the passenger or does
that only extend from the train to the platform where somebody else is
responsible for evacuation in an emergency.

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:25:02 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Kev wrote:

Something doesn't ring true here. I am an occassional user of Camden
but I think that even I would know which platform I was on and if I
was about set off in the wrong direction. Some how a driver gets out
of a train in the Edgware platform but then gets in the back of a
train in the HB platform and drives off SB. Wouldn't he have noticed
something odd about the directions he took on foot. We are not talking
a non underground savvy tourist here.

He might never set foot on the station.

However he would have known the platforms from the cab.

In message .com, at
04:42:05 on Fri, 15 Jun 2007, Kev remarked:
It seems odd that on reaching the HB platform
he didn't think to turn back on the direction he had headed from the
train in the Edgware platfom. How many times had this driver driven a
train through Camden.

Isn't it simpler than that?

1) The drivers switched trains, and unless they both left them in some
nondirectional state with red lights at both ends, the new driver would
have had to reverse the trains "direction" in that respect.

2) The driver's end of the platforms have either CCTV monitors or large
mirrors. These are very easy to recognise.

I conclude that the driver thought he had been told to reverse.
--
Roland Perry

Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:25:02 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Kev wrote:

Something doesn't ring true here. I am an occassional user of Camden
but I think that even I would know which platform I was on and if I
was about set off in the wrong direction. Some how a driver gets out
of a train in the Edgware platform but then gets in the back of a
train in the HB platform and drives off SB. Wouldn't he have noticed
something odd about the directions he took on foot. We are not
talking a non underground savvy tourist here.

He might never set foot on the station.

However he would have known the platforms from the cab.

Passengers who use the station know that the northbound platforms are at the
same depth as each other, and the southbound platforms are at the same depth
as each other. I don't expect a driver would necessarily know that.