SWT (and others) charging double for tickets from machines Options
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1975243.ece

From The Times June 23, 2007

Ticket machines charge train travellers twice the cheap fare

Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

Train companies are failing to offer the cheapest fares on their
ticket machines, causing thousands of passengers to pay double the
correct price.

Several companies in southern England are charging passengers more in
this way but the problem is greatest at South West Trains (SWT), the
operator exposed this week as having ordered guards to issue as many
penalties as possible.

Families and other groups travelling together are particularly
affected by the problem with the machines.

Last weekend SWT charged dozens of Falklands veterans on their way to
London for the 25th anniversary of the islands' liberation more than
the cheapest fare available.

The companies have chosen secretly not to programme their ticket
machines to sell the GroupSave fare, which is meant to be available
to
any group of three or four people travelling after the morning peak.
Under GroupSave, when two adults buy tickets another two can travel
free. Staff at ticket offices are obliged to sell the cheapest fare,
including GroupSave, even if passengers do not specifically request
it. But the law does not extend to machines.

When The Times tried to buy return tickets from London to Weymouth
for
four people yesterday, the ticket machine charged £212.40 and the
ticket office £106.20.

Passengers travelling alone are also unable to obtain the cheapest
fares from machines for some morning trains on which those fares are
valid. The fares can be obtained only from ticket offices. Only 44 of
SWT's 177 stations have offices open for at least 12 hours a day.
Another 105 have part-time ticket offices and 28 have no offices.

SWT has put up signs telling passengers that they must buy a ticket
before boarding and that they will be prosecuted if they try to pay
on
the train, even if there are long queues at machines and offices.

A SWT guard told The Times: "We are regularly finding groups of
passengers who have been overcharged by the machines. There are no
signs by the machines telling them they could save a lot of money by
going to the ticket office.

"People used to be able to get on board and ask us for the cheapest
fare. But now they are so terrified of getting a penalty fare that
they pay whatever amount the machine says."

He said that a group of 20 Falklands veterans travelling together
last
weekend had each paid £10 for their tickets from machines when they
should, under GroupSave, have paid only £5. "We have informed our
managers of the problem but they tell us to ignore it. They don't
care
because the company profits from it."

Passenger Focus, the rail passenger watchdog, said that it was making
a formal complaint to SWT. Anthony Smith, the watchdog's chief
executive, said: "The mad scrabble for revenue is taking priority
over
the need to offer passengers the full range of tickets. Given the
recent 20 per cent fare rises, it is very unfair not to give people a
chance to obtain the discount to which they are entitled."

After being presented with the evidence gathered by The Times, SWT
said that it would consider reprogramming its machines to offer the
GroupSave discount. A spokeswoman added: "We are looking at adding
more options, but then we get advised that the machines are really
complicated and people can't use them."

On Jun 25, 12:29 am, CJB wrote:
SWT (and others) charging double for tickets from machines Optionshttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1975243.ece

From The Times June 23, 2007

I read that as well - I had never even heard of groupsave.

Offramp wrote
On Jun 25, 12:29 am, CJB wrote:
SWT (and others) charging double for tickets from machines Options
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1975243.ece

From The Times June 23, 2007

I read that as well - I had never even heard of groupsave.

It's mentioned in the April '07 SWT leaflet as is Group Travel (10 or
more).

So The Times' idea is that anyone buying 3 or more offpeak tickets
from a machine is suddenly asked "are you going and coming back
together ?" but not if a Family or Network railcard is going to be used
(and various other combinations).

Must try a machine next time I have an hour to spare.

--
Mike D

In article 01c7b99e$e95ff5e0$LocalHost@default, (Michael
R N Dolbear) wrote:

Offramp wrote
On Jun 25, 12:29 am, CJB wrote:
SWT (and others) charging double for tickets from machines
Options
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1975243.ece

From The Times June 23, 2007

I read that as well - I had never even heard of groupsave.

It's mentioned in the April '07 SWT leaflet as is Group Travel (10
or more).

So The Times' idea is that anyone buying 3 or more offpeak tickets
from a machine is suddenly asked "are you going and coming back
together ?" but not if a Family or Network railcard is going to be
used (and various other combinations).

Must try a machine next time I have an hour to spare.

The Shere machines at Cambridge will sell up to four of the same tickets.
Not checked at what rate, though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jun 29, 12:34 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article 01c7b99e$e95ff5e0$LocalHost@default, (Michael





R N Dolbear) wrote:
Offramp wrote
On Jun 25, 12:29 am, CJB wrote:
SWT (and others) charging double for tickets from machines
Options
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1975243.ece

From The Times June 23, 2007

I read that as well - I had never even heard of groupsave.

It's mentioned in the April '07 SWT leaflet as is Group Travel (10
or more).

So The Times' idea is that anyone buying 3 or more offpeak tickets
from a machine is suddenly asked "are you going and coming back
together ?" but not if a Family or Network railcard is going to be
used (and various other combinations).

Must try a machine next time I have an hour to spare.

The Shere machines at Cambridge will sell up to four of the same tickets.
Not checked at what rate, though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I'd like to buy a ticket to start the next day. Like I used to at a
ticket office or from the guard on the train.

The machines don't allow me to do this either.

My point is that the machines cant be expected to sell all the
different premutations of tickets without over complicating the
procedure.

I think the way forward is to allow people to buy tickets which aren't
available from the machine from guards or at the destination ONLY if a
permit to travel or similar ticket is purchased.

A.

Londoncityslicker wrote:

I'd like to buy a ticket to start the next day. Like I used to at a
ticket office or from the guard on the train.

The machines don't allow me to do this either.

The Shere machines used by Chiltern Railways do - there is a touchpad field
for 'Today' and 'Tomorrow'. So, the technology is available.

In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

Londoncityslicker wrote:

I'd like to buy a ticket to start the next day. Like I used to at
a ticket office or from the guard on the train.

The machines don't allow me to do this either.

The Shere machines used by Chiltern Railways do - there is a
touchpad field for 'Today' and 'Tomorrow'. So, the technology is
available.

As do the Shere machines at Cambridge, but only later in the day.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote .
, (Jack Taylor) wrote:

The Shere machines used by Chiltern Railways do - there is a
touchpad field for 'Today' and 'Tomorrow'. So, the technology is
available.

As do the Shere machines at Cambridge, but only later in the day.

SWT are planning to add that feature "within the next year" - latest
(today in fact) SWT free magazine, p9.

Also, referring back upthread, "looking at ways to make buying
GroupSave from our machines possible" p28.

--
Mike D

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c7bff6$4cba8260$LocalHost@default...

Colin Rosenstiel wrote .
, (Jack Taylor) wrote:

The Shere machines used by Chiltern Railways do - there is a
touchpad field for 'Today' and 'Tomorrow'. So, the technology is
available.

As do the Shere machines at Cambridge, but only later in the day.

SWT are planning to add that feature "within the next year" - latest
(today in fact) SWT free magazine, p9.

Also, referring back upthread, "looking at ways to make buying
GroupSave from our machines possible" p28.


Seems to me this is a lot easier for staff than a machine - I see many
groups, especially youngsters, who buy individual tickets, a person behind a
window may well be able to ask 'are you all together' but a machine can't,
surely it can only work if people ask for multiple tickets in one
transaction, or does the machine ask everyone if they are part of a group,
delaying everything?

Paul

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c7bff6$4cba8260$LocalHost@default...

Colin Rosenstiel wrote .
, (Jack Taylor) wrote:

The Shere machines used by Chiltern Railways do - there is a
touchpad field for 'Today' and 'Tomorrow'. So, the technology
is available.

As do the Shere machines at Cambridge, but only later in the day.

SWT are planning to add that feature "within the next year" -
latest (today in fact) SWT free magazine, p9.

Also, referring back upthread, "looking at ways to make buying
GroupSave from our machines possible" p28.

Seems to me this is a lot easier for staff than a machine - I see
many groups, especially youngsters, who buy individual tickets, a
person behind a window may well be able to ask 'are you all
together' but a machine can't, surely it can only work if people
ask for multiple tickets in one transaction, or does the machine
ask everyone if they are part of a group, delaying everything?

The Shere machines at Cambridge allow multiple ticket purchases. Indeed,
to buy a ticket with a Network Card you _have_ to specify the numbers of
adults and children travelling.

--
Colin Rosenstiel