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This morning I left Palmers Green and went to Highbury and Islington for about 8 to get the Victoria Line. The Victoria line had signal problems so we were advised to use alternative routes. So I got back on the rail line to Moorgate to get the Northern Line. The Northern line train at Moorgate didn't go anywhere because of signal problems near Stockwell. Can you see a pattern emerging ? So I got on the circle line to Kings Cross to connect with (well any sodding thing still moving south). I tried to change lines at Kings Cross but got turfed out onto the street as they were closing Kings Cross because it was too busy...... try the Angel they said. So I walked to the Angel............. nothing at all going south. At this stage I would be forgiven for just sitting in a corner and having a good hissy fit :-) But I then walked to Highbury & Islington, where I'd been an hour before and after a long wait got a Victoria Line train, and arrived at work some 1 and a half hours late !! So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap, and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform the Tube !! -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - The Revolution Starts At 9" |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote: This morning I left Palmers Green and went to Highbury and Islington for about 8 to get the Victoria Line. The Victoria line had signal problems so we were advised to use alternative routes. So I got back on the rail line to Moorgate to get the Northern Line. The Northern line train at Moorgate didn't go anywhere because of signal problems near Stockwell. Can you see a pattern emerging ? I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. I agree that it is unacceptable that you and others encounter delays like you did today. You probably won't like my next suggestion and I would agree that you shouldn't have to plan like this. I make sure I have a number of alternative routes already worked out to get me to where I want to get to. This applies for home to work and the reverse journey in particular but it can also help at other times. This typically involves using the bus network in order to keep moving - it's when everything stops that the frustration really builds. I have only got stuck once in a number of years when trying to use my alternative routes and it is much less stressful to be able to take a firm decision to go to the stop to catch bus x to get to y. By being able to decide quickly you can generally get ahead of the crowd of people who may then be forced to head for the buses and then everything gets very busy indeed. I don't know where you were headed but from Moorgate you have several good bus options to head south of the river - 76, 141, 133, 100, 43. So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap, and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform the Tube !! I think I can guess how you will be voting. Once again - sorry for being mucked around this morning. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. Ah yes but signal failures would be down to the (privatised) infracos!!!! I'm not sure about the Victoria line, but on the Northern that's the second time in just over a week that there has been a points failure at Kennington when I was on duty. I blame Tubelines - and underinvestment in general. Admits to working for London Underground! So do I! And it wasn't my fault!!! |
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On Jun 26, 7:54 pm, wrote:
I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. Ah yes but signal failures would be down to the (privatised) infracos!!!! I'm not sure about the Victoria line, but on the Northern that's the second time in just over a week that there has been a points failure at Kennington when I was on duty. I blame Tubelines - and underinvestment in general. Admits to working for London Underground! So do I! And it wasn't my fault!!! You are spot on there Hannah,having said that at least money is being spent and things are said to improve under the PPP Line Upgrades (whith equipment that wont last anywhere near as long as the current assets) Tubelines are crap too, but dont but anywhere near as much stick as Metromess, but then Tubelines must make an awful lot more money - through Transplant, Emergency Response Unit and Refuse & Distribution Services Also Kings Cross was closed earlier because of concrete coming through the tunnel roof on the Piccadilly line. Very Odd that! |
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK This typically involves using the bus network in order to keep moving - it's when everything stops that the frustration really builds. Normally I would agree as I've been using a bus to get to work over the past year. It usually takes about an hour door to door. However for the past few mornings, I've had to wait over 20mins for a bus and there's only been standing room by the time I get on. A few more stops down the route and the bus is packed to capacity because of the delay. People are standing on the stairs, jumping on from the back doors and standing by the driver. The driver then throws a hissy fit and turns off the engine until people get off the stairs and causing more delays. What happened to a bus every 8 mins ? With people going to work and children going to school during rush hour, one bus every 30 mins isn't good enough. I'm now averaging 1 hour 20 door to door ! |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:20:48 +0100, "EK"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK This typically involves using the bus network in order to keep moving - it's when everything stops that the frustration really builds. Normally I would agree as I've been using a bus to get to work over the past year. It usually takes about an hour door to door. However for the past few mornings, I've had to wait over 20mins for a bus and there's only been standing room by the time I get on. A few more stops down the route and the bus is packed to capacity because of the delay. People are standing on the stairs, jumping on from the back doors and standing by the driver. The driver then throws a hissy fit and turns off the engine until people get off the stairs and causing more delays. What happened to a bus every 8 mins ? With people going to work and children going to school during rush hour, one bus every 30 mins isn't good enough. I'm now averaging 1 hour 20 door to door ! What route out of interest? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK wrote: I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. That's the first and only apology from LU (ok, you're not a spokesman but I'll accept it). The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at 08:05. Large crowds were queueing into the underground and after a 10 minute pass by the deliberate bottleneck I got down from the concourse and onto a northern line train (Bank) and thought that would be it. The train waited for 10 minutes at Euston with the driver giving regular updates about a train stopped at Kennington. Then most bizarrely he started repeatedly shouting for people to get on the train or leave the station. I wish I could have recorded it. The station was to be closed. A sort of weird panic ensued and the train took off to Kings Cross. I think at that point we were told Euston was closing down due to a power failure. At Kings Cross the platform was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR to Canary Wharf for 10am. Buses were not an option. I have only got stuck once in a number of years when trying to use my alternative routes and it is much less stressful to be able to take a firm decision to go to the stop to catch bus x to get to y. You should have seen it outside Kings Cross. Try competing with about 500 other people trying to get where they're going. No amount of planning ahead can prepare you for that. P.S. I know the staff were under a lot of stress but I heard on various occasions people saying "well, at least they could apologise and not just shout at us". |
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:20:48 +0100, "EK" wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK This typically involves using the bus network in order to keep moving - it's when everything stops that the frustration really builds. Normally I would agree as I've been using a bus to get to work over the past year. It usually takes about an hour door to door. However for the past few mornings, I've had to wait over 20mins for a bus and there's only been standing room by the time I get on. A few more stops down the route and the bus is packed to capacity because of the delay. People are standing on the stairs, jumping on from the back doors and standing by the driver. The driver then throws a hissy fit and turns off the engine until people get off the stairs and causing more delays. What happened to a bus every 8 mins ? With people going to work and children going to school during rush hour, one bus every 30 mins isn't good enough. I'm now averaging 1 hour 20 door to door ! What route out of interest? -- Paul C It's the 63 heading North to Blackfriars. Been late 2 days in a row now and had to make up the time as well. |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:57:47 +0100,
Movilla wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK wrote: I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. That's the first and only apology from LU (ok, you're not a spokesman but I'll accept it). The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at 08:05. Large crowds were queueing into the underground and after a 10 minute pass by the deliberate bottleneck I got down from the concourse and onto a northern line train (Bank) and thought that would be it. The train waited A brompton is your friend ;-) I got the 07:46 from Watford arriving Euston at 08:08 (I didn't notice the exact time we got in) I then cycled from Euston to Moorgate and got into work around about 8:30. One option you've got when it's impossible to get down into Euston underground is to walk to Euston Square, travel to Moorgate and then walk to Bank (or catch a bus - I would guess pretty much anything travelling south on Moorgate would be ok) And despite the weather we've been having reported in the news recently, I've had two journeys this year (2007) where I've put on waterproofs for cycling across London. Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/ |
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On Jun 26, 9:57 pm, "Movilla" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK wrote: I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. That's the first and only apology from LU (ok, you're not a spokesman but I'll accept it). The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at 08:05. Large crowds were queueing into the underground and after a 10 minute pass by the deliberate bottleneck I got down from the concourse and onto a northern line train (Bank) and thought that would be it. The train waited for 10 minutes at Euston with the driver giving regular updates about a train stopped at Kennington. Then most bizarrely he started repeatedly shouting for people to get on the train or leave the station. I wish I could have recorded it. The station was to be closed. A sort of weird panic ensued and the train took off to Kings Cross. I think at that point we were told Euston was closing down due to a power failure. At Kings Cross the platform was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR to Canary Wharf for 10am. Buses were not an option. I have only got stuck once in a number of years when trying to use my alternative routes and it is much less stressful to be able to take a firm decision to go to the stop to catch bus x to get to y. You should have seen it outside Kings Cross. Try competing with about 500 other people trying to get where they're going. No amount of planning ahead can prepare you for that. P.S. I know the staff were under a lot of stress but I heard on various occasions people saying "well, at least they could apologise and not just shout at us". Why should you apologise for something that is not your fault or within your control. If I spilt a drink on someone, then I would apologise. If someone stood next to me, then I wouldn't. |
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"Tim Woodall" wrote in message
e.uk... On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:57:47 +0100, Movilla wrote: The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at 08:05. I got the 07:46 from Watford arriving Euston at 08:08 (I didn't notice the exact time we got in) That's the one I got. I actually got on at Bushey (07:49). I really hate that train. The 08:09 (so leaves Watford circa 08:06) has 12 coaches and space to sit down but the 07:49 is only 8 coaches and it's always packed. I then cycled from Euston to Moorgate and got into work around about 8:30. One option you've got when it's impossible to get down into Euston underground is to walk to Euston Square, travel to Moorgate and then walk to Bank (or catch a bus - I would guess pretty much anything travelling south on Moorgate would be ok) Thanks. I never thought of that. Unfortunately I only really hit the chaos once the train got to Kings Cross. I guess I could have walked back to Euston Square. |
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In message ,
Movilla writes At Kings Cross the platform was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR When all other forms of transport fail taxis keep people moving (well nearly always). Yet we get no subsidy and have to comply with some of the tightest regulations on vehicles and drivers in the world. I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO) which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me. -- Mike Hughes A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England |
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Paul Corfield wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 26 Jun 2007
19:48:56 +0100 : You probably won't like my next suggestion and I would agree that you shouldn't have to plan like this. I make sure I have a number of alternative routes already worked out to get me to where I want to get to. Agreed on both counts (that one shouldn't have to plan for this, but that contingency plans are well worth it). I've regularly been amazed at the number of fellow travellers during the peaks who don't appear to realise that there *are* alternatives to their chosen route, even without running the risk of being turned into a toad by getting on (shock, horror) a *bus*. Heading the "wrong" way from the congestion point for a while in order to get on a bus heading back in the right direction before the pressure of hundreds of folk at a bus stop is a further option that I've found pays dividends. (Insert further disclaimers about the preferability of perfectly-designed, resourced and planned systems, catering for irregular users, my not working for TfL, etc, etc.) Dave "are you trying to tell me coconuts migrate?" |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:51:33 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: I am a senior manager and people who post here are our passengers (delete as applicable). :-) |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:29:10 +0100, Mike Hughes
wrote: I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO) which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me. Comparing taxi fares when I moved to London with how they are now - sorry, but I have no sympathy. |
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In message , James Farrar
writes On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:29:10 +0100, Mike Hughes wrote: I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO) which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me. Comparing taxi fares when I moved to London with how they are now - sorry, but I have no sympathy. Strangely enough, for short distances it is actually cheaper for 4 or 5 people to take a taxi than to take a bus or tube - and you get door to door service! That's because we used to get a small amount extra for extra passengers and that was taken away from us. In fact for 3 or more people it's cheaper to go all the way to Heathrow than use the Heathrow Express. You have to look at the overall costs. One person a taxi is more expensive two- marginal cost difference three - cost saving four or five - considerable cost savings And yet we are not allowed to advertise this fact at Heathrow allegedly because BAA have a financial stake in HEx. -- Mike Hughes A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England |
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On Jun 26, 7:54 pm, wrote:
I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. Ah yes but signal failures would be down to the (privatised) infracos!!!! I'm not sure about the Victoria line, but on the Northern that's the second time in just over a week that there has been a points failure at Kennington when I was on duty. I blame Tubelines - and underinvestment in general. Admits to working for London Underground! So do I! And it wasn't my fault!!! So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/ Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have known what they were letting themselves in for. Kevin |
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Hi,
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap, and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform the Tube !! Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available from leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the amount one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream of vouchers through the post. I've been considering handing them out to other passengers when delayed, but there isn't the space to walk through the carriage in the mornings. Luke |
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On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote:
So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/ Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have known what they were letting themselves in for. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. Between 1945 and 2000, with the exception of the absolutely-necessary- to-avoid-gridlock Victoria Line, the half-arsed-compromise Jubilee Line, and the Thatcher's-Docklands-project-must-succeed-or-else JLE, there was no investment in the Underground system. None. Central government skimped on the money for essential maintenance, and didn't make any money available for capital projects such as major line or signalling upgrades. London was a declining city and the train was a declining transport mode - cars and suburbs were the way forward. So anyone who blames Ken, LUL management, or even Metronet and Tubelines for the state of the tube today is simply wrong. Ken, the current government, LUL's current management and the infracos are the first people since the days of LPTB in the 1930s to embark on a serious programme of upgrades to the underground. This isn't necessarily because they're all wonderful people, just that people have suddenly noticed that London is growing again and the private car is not a viable means of transport within London. Yes, it gets frustrating when there are signal failures because 30, 50 or 80 year old kit doesn't work very well. It's also frustrating when there are signal failures or lift failures or train failures because brand new kit hasn't bedded in yet[*]. But there's a generally understood curve over time in reliability of major capital assets - it doesn't work very well when brand new, works quite well for some time after that, and then doesn't work very well again because it's too old. And at the moment, most of the kit on the Tube is either brand new, being replaced, or very old and knackered... Hopefully, Ken's Tory rival will also be aware of the glaring reality that continued investment in London's transport system is absolutely vital - although given their previous choices of a perjurer and a road- builder, I've got to admit I'm sceptical. But IMO anyone who refuses to vote Ken because they think he isn't doing a good job on London's transport is an idiot (if they refuse to vote Ken because they don't agree with his left-wing politics in other areas, then that's a different story). [*] or because a new high-speed train control system makes the trains accelerate so fast that the motors fall off, as with ATO on the Central line. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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On Jun 26, 7:24 pm, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote: So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap, and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform the Tube !! One thing that I very much like about living in London is that, if you end up late for more or less any kind of appointment for more or less any reason, you can say "sorry, the Tube was rubbish" and get sympathetic nods and no grudges held (obviously with the exception of a few special one-off events such as exams, court appearances, weddings, for which you just need to head off an hour early). It would be far worse to live somewhere like Japan, where turning up late for work is a sacking offence unless you have the signed suicide note of the train company's CEO for running his train five minutes late. So three cheers for successive central and local governments for accidentally and incompetently striking a blow against the tyranny of the clock! -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote:
On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote: So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/ Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have known what they were letting themselves in for. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee Line extension. I accept that the Victoria Line signalling is probably knackered I just wish that all concerned would stop going on how the probelms are all due to the "Victorian" infrastructure. The DLR is hardly Victorian and the signalling and all the trains have been replaced since it was built. I can't wait for the first signal failure on the new Westinghouse system on the Victoria Line and on the new Thales system on the Jubilee Line. Kevin |
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On Jun 27, 2:43 pm, Kev wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote: On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote: So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/ Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have known what they were letting themselves in for. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee Line extension. I accept that the Victoria Line signalling is probably knackered I just wish that all concerned would stop going on how the probelms are all due to the "Victorian" infrastructure. The DLR is hardly Victorian and the signalling and all the trains have been replaced since it was built. I can't wait for the first signal failure on the new Westinghouse system on the Victoria Line and on the new Thales system on the Jubilee Line. Kevin But lots of the newer kit is bolted on to or "talks to" the Victorian or kit from the 20's-60's! There will be problems with the new stuff, as it won't be built to last.... |
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Kev wrote:
On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote: On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote: So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee Line extension. Oh, that's still being settled in! tom -- Science is bound, by the everlasting vow of honour, to face fearlessly every problem which can be fairly presented to it. -- Lord Kelvin |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007, Mike Hughes wrote:
In message , Movilla writes At Kings Cross the platform was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR When all other forms of transport fail taxis keep people moving (well nearly always). Yet we get no subsidy Oh really? We're having that argument in another thread! :) tom -- Science is bound, by the everlasting vow of honour, to face fearlessly every problem which can be fairly presented to it. -- Lord Kelvin |
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:57:47 +0100, "Movilla"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK wrote: I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say sorry instead given that I work for LU. That's the first and only apology from LU (ok, you're not a spokesman but I'll accept it). Thank you. [snip tale of woe] Buses were not an option. They would have helped in part in getting you closer to where you were heading. I have only got stuck once in a number of years when trying to use my alternative routes and it is much less stressful to be able to take a firm decision to go to the stop to catch bus x to get to y. You should have seen it outside Kings Cross. Try competing with about 500 other people trying to get where they're going. No amount of planning ahead can prepare you for that. I can imagine KX was awful but I would contend that making a move quickly to make progress is still helpful. The other suggestion about walking back a stop or station to avoid the immediate crowd is also useful. For your information you could have taken a 205 to Mile End direct and then changed for a frequent bus to Canary Wharf. Alternatively a 17 bus would have taken you direct to London Bridge for the Jubilee Line. Alternatively a Thameslink train might have got you to London Bridge although I accept the peak frequency is not very good for that link. A 45 or 63 bus would take you to Southwark Station to catch the Jubilee Line. A 214 or 205 would get you to Moorgate which is but a short walk to Bank for the DLR. The 205 also serves Aldgate which is a short walk to Tower Gateway for other DLR services or else stay on to Whitechapel for the East London Line to Canada Water and then the Jubilee Line. P.S. I know the staff were under a lot of stress but I heard on various occasions people saying "well, at least they could apologise and not just shout at us". I think part of the reason for this is that passengers are resistant to obeying evacuation announcements. People don't want to head for the exit for entirely understandable reasons and they therefore try not to. It can mean the staff do need to shout to get the message across that people *have* to leave the station. If the priority is to get people to a place of safety then perhaps apologies come a little way down the immediate list of priorities. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Jun 26, 9:51 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
There are a lot of issues here and a hell of a lot of effort from people in LU and Tube Lines to make the Northern Line work. I know! I'm one of them! Operational staff also get frustrated by trying to do a good job and being perpetually hampered by the delapidated infrastructure we have to work with. Well I know I do. I know that our job is to provide the best possible train service to the travelling public, and on the Northern line a lot of the time it seems we are operating on a wing and a prayer. I'm sure you have quite a different perspective on it to me as I am more involved in day-to-day keeping the railway running as best we can no matter what goes wrong, while you (by the sounds of it) are more looking at how the Northern line can be improved in the longer term. Hannah |
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On Jun 27, 5:49 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Kev wrote: On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote: On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote: So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee Line extension. Oh, that's still being settled in! tom This reminds me of the early 1990s when slam-door suburban stock on the South Eastern was replaced by class 465 "Networkers". The excuses changed seamlessly from the trains being old to the trains being new. |
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On Jun 27, 7:59 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
My team do their fair share of the day to day trouble shooting of faults with the FRC and TLL engineers. We do a daily review of faults and incidents and investigate what has gone wrong and why. Do you do this independantly of operational managers who also investigate incidents? Or do you work with/from what they find? Just curious. A lot of the contractual stuff is also day to day with people on the trains team doing cab rides for speed restrictions or visiting site after serious disruptions as well as operating all the data collection and contractual processes that we have to do. Fair point, I think to put it slightly more clearly, you are more focussed on making sure things get fixed, whilst I am more focussed on how to run the railway as best we can round whatever bit of it happens to be broken at the moment. Just so you know where I'm coming from here, I am a Service (Line) Controller on the Northern. Hannah -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Jun 27, 8:22 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
We will use a wide range of information but a lot of it comes from DMTs via EIRFs / F&Ds etc. If it is a very complex incident that is worth a lot of money then obviously there can be more challenge from TLL so we work to make sure we know exactly what went on. This can involve talking to lots of people and collating a lot of extra information over and above the basic sources. Controllers write F&Ds! You'll be able to spot my items because my writing is actually legible :D A lot of the contractual stuff is also day to day with people on the trains team doing cab rides for speed restrictions or visiting site after serious disruptions as well as operating all the data collection and contractual processes that we have to do. Fair point, I think to put it slightly more clearly, you are more focussed on making sure things get fixed, whilst I am more focussed on how to run the railway as best we can round whatever bit of it happens to be broken at the moment. Just so you know where I'm coming from here, I am a Service (Line) Controller on the Northern. An inhabitant of Coburg St - you are lucky ;-) There's lots of worse places to work than Cobourg St :) Hannah |
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"Luke Ross" wrote in message
oups.com... Hi, Edward Cowling London UK wrote: So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap, and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform the Tube !! Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available from leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the amount one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream of vouchers through the post. Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was no way I could claim it back. |
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On 27 Jun, 22:28, "Movilla" wrote:
Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was no way I could claim it back. Well, if it was a work journey, I'd suggest claiming it back from work (you needed me at place X at time Y for a meeting or whatever, the only way to achieve this was by taxi, therefore you owe me for a taxi). If not, then you're probably right. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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On Jun 27, 3:48 pm, chunky munky
wrote: On Jun 27, 2:43 pm, Kev wrote: On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote: On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote: So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/ Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have known what they were letting themselves in for. Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years is Pretty Damn Old. I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee Line extension. I accept that the Victoria Line signalling is probably knackered I just wish that all concerned would stop going on how the probelms are all due to the "Victorian" infrastructure. The DLR is hardly Victorian and the signalling and all the trains have been replaced since it was built. I can't wait for the first signal failure on the new Westinghouse system on the Victoria Line and on the new Thales system on the Jubilee Line. Kevin But lots of the newer kit is bolted on to or "talks to" the Victorian or kit from the 20's-60's! There will be problems with the new stuff, as it won't be built to last....- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Not on the Jubilee Line and that still gets problems. Kevin |
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On 27 Jun, 19:06, wrote:
On Jun 26, 9:51 pm, Paul Corfield wrote: There are a lot of issues here and a hell of a lot of effort from people in LU and Tube Lines to make the Northern Line work. I know! I'm one of them! Operational staff also get frustrated by trying to do a good job and being perpetually hampered by the delapidated infrastructure we have to work with. Well I know I do. I know that our job is to provide the best possible train service to the travelling public, and on the Northern line a lot of the time it seems we are operating on a wing and a prayer. I'm sure you have quite a different perspective on it to me as I am more involved in day-to-day keeping the railway running as best we can no matter what goes wrong, while you (by the sounds of it) are more looking at how the Northern line can be improved in the longer term. Hannah How many times does it come down to apparant sheer incompetance from the line controllers as happened on Sunday Evening on the Northern at Finchley central? Mill Hill East trains delayed by the fact that the 38TS was on a rail tour Scenario Arrive 18.45 ish No trains to Mill Hill 38 allegedly in public service for this stretch cause it would cause unacceptable delays 38ts does not stop reemerges from Mill Hill 15 odd mins later does not stop Train to Mill HIll sits in siding south of Station for at least another 10 minutes This was now close to 19.30 by the time it came Result pax for MIll Hill delayed for at least 30 if not 40 minutes This has nothing to do with infrastructure Great Idea put a special in service so it does not inconvienence your customers Shame if you are not capable of implementing it. |
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On 28 Jun, 08:31, Kev wrote:
But lots of the newer kit is bolted on to or "talks to" the Victorian or kit from the 20's-60's! Not on the Jubilee Line and that still gets problems. Err, the kit on the Jubilee line is a mixture of original Met/Bakerloo signalling north of Baker Street, 1970s kit compatible with the retro systems between Green Park and Baker Street, and a hastily implemented bolt-on version of classic LUL signalling on the JLE (built after the moving block ATO that had been originally planed for the JLE proved to, err, not work at all). -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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Hi,
Movilla wrote: Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available from leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the amount one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream of vouchers through the post. Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was no way I could claim it back. Sadly the charter only covers the cost of the journey - no consequential loss (which the taxi would fall under, I believe). They pay-out is £4 per single journey, as that's the cost of a cash single tube journey. The form is postage-paid and takes about five minutes to fill in. You can also claim online, but it isn't as flexible and I don't believe in reducing the admin cost of charter claims :-) Regards, Luke |
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On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 20:33 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
Between 1945 and 2000, with the exception of the absolutely-necessary-to-avoid-gridlock Victoria Line, the half-arsed-compromise Jubilee Line, and the Thatcher's-Docklands-project-must-succeed-or-else JLE, there was no investment in the Underground system. None. Oblox! For example, you have ignored the investment in rolling stock which covered the entire fleet in that period, some twice (e.g. most of the District stock). I know for a fact that the District signalling was replaced in the 1950s/60s too. That's just maintenance and renewals though, which is in a different category from investment in new infrastructure (which I think is what the PP meant). |
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