No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

As there doesn't seem to have been any comments on this since the ban
came in, I thought I'd share the text of an email I've just sent to
Southern:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

The fact that you chose to bring in your non-smoking policy on the
same day as the Smoke-Free regulations (which only cover enclosed
spaces) came in to force is, I am sure, intended to encourage a
perception in the public mind that the non-smoking policy at open-air
railway stations is a consequence of the new law. It is not, and I
would therefore request that you remove this misleading signage: I am
sure there are many other open-air stations on your network where the
same thing has been done, so please consider those as well."

From a frustrated weed addict....

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On Jul 3, 9:41 pm, "Obadiah Jones" wrote:
As there doesn't seem to have been any comments on this since the ban
came in, I thought I'd share the text of an email I've just sent to
Southern:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

The fact that you chose to bring in your non-smoking policy on the
same day as the Smoke-Free regulations (which only cover enclosed
spaces) came in to force is, I am sure, intended to encourage a
perception in the public mind that the non-smoking policy at open-air
railway stations is a consequence of the new law. It is not, and I
would therefore request that you remove this misleading signage: I am
sure there are many other open-air stations on your network where the
same thing has been done, so please consider those as well."

From a frustrated weed addict....



Questions rather than answers:

1) If the railways ban smoking from certain premises or trains, is
there some kind of legal force or by-law behind it, such that it would
then be illegal so smoke there?

2) Is it stated (however much it might be inferred) that the ban has
anything to do with the recent changes to the law?

I have noticed that other operators have chosen to ban smoking from
all their premises, enclosed or not, to coincide with 1 July. It's
probably a case of burying bad news (unless one finds it good).

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:41:22 +0100, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

They own the ground. Their rules apply..
No like? Do not go there!

--
|\ |
| \|ico

Panic now and avoid the rush!

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On Jul 3, 9:53 pm, MIG wrote:
On Jul 3, 9:41 pm, "Obadiah Jones" wrote:



As there doesn't seem to have been any comments on this since the ban
came in, I thought I'd share the text of an email I've just sent to
Southern:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

The fact that you chose to bring in your non-smoking policy on the
same day as the Smoke-Free regulations (which only cover enclosed
spaces) came in to force is, I am sure, intended to encourage a
perception in the public mind that the non-smoking policy at open-air
railway stations is a consequence of the new law. It is not, and I
would therefore request that you remove this misleading signage: I am
sure there are many other open-air stations on your network where the
same thing has been done, so please consider those as well."

From a frustrated weed addict....

Questions rather than answers:

1) If the railways ban smoking from certain premises or trains, is
there some kind of legal force or by-law behind it, such that it would
then be illegal so smoke there?

2) Is it stated (however much it might be inferred) that the ban has
anything to do with the recent changes to the law?

I have noticed that other operators have chosen to ban smoking from
all their premises, enclosed or not, to coincide with 1 July. It's
probably a case of burying bad news (unless one finds it good).

It is much easier to enforce the new law if you say that all
platforms, ticket offices etc are smoke free. The Railways have
changed this using their existing by-laws, so whilst it is not
illegal, you could be prohibited from entering the railway or be
removed by staff or police.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:41:22 +0100, Obadiah Jones wrote:

As there doesn't seem to have been any comments on this since the ban
came in, I thought I'd share the text of an email I've just sent to
Southern:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

Under the railway byelaws, it is in fact illegal to smoke anywhere
where the railway has decided to prohibit smoking.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

"MIG" wrote in message
ps.com...


Questions rather than answers:

1) If the railways ban smoking from certain premises or trains, is
there some kind of legal force or by-law behind it, such that it would
then be illegal so smoke there?

Its been discussed in uk.railway - it is believed that the existing railway
byelaws already allowed for the extension of the non smoking area to the
whole of stations.

2) Is it stated (however much it might be inferred) that the ban has
anything to do with the recent changes to the law?

SWT for example were, and are now, definitely explaining on signs and with
announcements that the ban is due to government legislation, without
elaboration on how they've extended it (as have others - see below)

I have noticed that other operators have chosen to ban smoking from
all their premises, enclosed or not, to coincide with 1 July. It's
probably a case of burying bad news (unless one finds it good).

I don't think its necessarily been buried, rather the explanation hasn't
been thorough enough. But it is standardised on all Network Rail stations,
don't forget the TOCs are only the station operators, not the owners...

Paul

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

Obadiah Jones wrote:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

You are mistaken. Railway Byelaw 3 makes it illegal to smoke on any part
of the railway where there is a notice indicating that smoking is not
allowed. There is no reason to believe these notices can only be placed
in enclosed spaces.

Interestingly, violation of this byelaw is an offence with a penalty of
a fine of up to £1,000, while smoking in violation of the Smoke-free
Regulations can result in only a fine up to £200.
--
Michael Hoffman

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

asdf wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:41:22 +0100, Obadiah Jones wrote:

As there doesn't seem to have been any comments on this since the ban
came in, I thought I'd share the text of an email I've just sent to
Southern:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

Under the railway byelaws, it is in fact illegal to smoke anywhere
where the railway has decided to prohibit smoking.

Just to add to that, some TOCs (Midland Mainline springs to mind) banned
smoking *anywhere* on their premises well before the July 1st regulations
(MML did so from the beginning of the year or thereabouts, IIRC). As others
have mentioned, railway premises are not public spaces - they are private
property on which members of the general public are entertained, subject to
the conditions of the owner/occupier - usually the holding of a valid ticket
to travel. Therefore rules/regulations over and above national laws can be
implemented as a condition of admittance.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

Michael Hoffman wrote:
Obadiah Jones wrote:

"I notice that you have placed an 'it is illegal to smoke on these
premises' sign near the entrance to the Up platform at East Dulwich
station.

Both the entrance ramp and the platform are actually entirely in
the
open air, and it is therefore emphatically not 'illegal' to smoke
there.

You are mistaken. Railway Byelaw 3 makes it illegal to smoke on any
part of the railway where there is a notice indicating that smoking
is not allowed. There is no reason to believe these notices can only
be placed in enclosed spaces.

Interestingly, violation of this byelaw is an offence with a penalty
of a fine of up to £1,000, while smoking in violation of the
Smoke-free Regulations can result in only a fine up to £200.

Ah, IANAL, as you can probably tell - And thanks for this and all the
other replies.

Its just that in the past a simple 'no smoking' or
'burning-fag-with-red-slash' pictogram seems to have proved sufficient
deterrent on trains etc, even though lighting up was illegal under the
Byelaw. Now that NR stations put up the same 'statutory'-type signs
that pubs, shops, etc have to display, it does tend to imply that they
want people to believe that the blanket ban at stations is a result of
the new law.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

Obadiah Jones wrote:

Its just that in the past a simple 'no smoking' or
'burning-fag-with-red-slash' pictogram seems to have proved sufficient
deterrent on trains etc, even though lighting up was illegal under the
Byelaw. Now that NR stations put up the same 'statutory'-type signs
that pubs, shops, etc have to display, it does tend to imply that they
want people to believe that the blanket ban at stations is a result of
the new law.

It's probably for cost efficiency reasons, in that they'd have to put
the specified signs up *inside* the station buildings (and on covered
platforms) anyway, so they just ordered a job lot rather than two
different sets depending on the location.

That and it means whoever applied the signs/stickers didn't have to make
sure they had the right one before doing so.

Cheers,

Barry

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:59:38 GMT, wrote:

The do not eat this or drink that or smoke tobacco fanatics talk
through their backsides if you ask me .

Anecdotal evidence of a few isolated data points is bad science.

To take just one example of good science:

http://tinyurl.com/3b524h

"From 25 through 84 yr of age, the cumulative incidence of lung cancer
was 0.9% in nonsmoking males and 0.5% in nonsmoking females. The
cumulative incidence rates were much higher for smokers; for males who
smoked 20 or more cigarettes daily from age 25, the cumulative risk of
lung cancer through age 84 was 31.7%. For females with the same
cigarette smoking history, the estimate of cumulative incidence
through age 84 years was 15.3%."

In other words, if you want to increase your chance of getting lung
cancer 300-fold, just smoke.

Clearly, that's not to say that everyone who smokes will die of
smoking-related diseases - evidently, you are one of the lucky ones.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

James Farrar wrote:

evidently, you are one of the lucky ones.

Not necessarily - the molecular changes that cause cancer may well be on
their way, and he may well be suffering from other effects such as skin
ageing.

E,

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On 3 Jul, 23:59, wrote:
Listen here frustrated weed addict having spent from 1960 till 1985
breathing in peoples second hand smoke first as a bus conductor then a
driver all this none smoking is nothing but a nonsense.

Regardless of any possible risks to health, myself and plenty of other
non-smokers find it thoroughly unpleasant to occupy an area where
people are smoking. This is fair game where it is a designated area
like in a restaurant, but there's nothing more annoying than waiting
on a station platform and someone lighting up. This ban is not before
time, and I for one hope it gets further extended in the future.

BRB Class 465.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

It made sense when the rules were "below ground - smoking banned",
"above ground - smoking allowed".

When LU brought in a total ban, how could be "dangerous" to smoke at
East Ham and Upney, but not at Barking? In fact the above ground LU
smoking ban is widely ignored and never enforced (frequent PA
announcements are useless as smokers just carry on regardless).

Until recently they were still bombarding LU passengers with repeated
messages saying "it is illegal to smoke in any London Regional
Transport bus station" which patently wasn't the case (see Finsbury
Park, Becontree Heath, Victoria etc), and just what is "LRT" anyway?

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

BRB Class 465 wrote:

Regardless of any possible risks to health, myself and plenty of other
non-smokers find it thoroughly unpleasant to occupy an area where
people are smoking. This is fair game where it is a designated area
like in a restaurant, but there's nothing more annoying than waiting
on a station platform and someone lighting up.

I can think of many things that are more annoying. For example, the
habitual overuse of needless hyperbole that everyone does these days.
But I agree it is a nuisance.
--
Michael Hoffman

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

Michael Hoffman wrote:
BRB Class 465 wrote:

Regardless of any possible risks to health, myself and plenty of
other non-smokers find it thoroughly unpleasant to occupy an area
where people are smoking. This is fair game where it is a
designated area like in a restaurant, but there's nothing more
annoying than waiting on a station platform and someone lighting up.

I can think of many things that are more annoying. For example, the
habitual overuse of needless hyperbole that everyone does these days.
But I agree it is a nuisance.

The thing that used to irritate me most was that on bright, breezy days you
would find the non-smokers confined to the platform, whilst the waiting
shelters were infested by the smokers, making them unusable by the majority.
It always seemed bizarre since, in the weather conditions, smoke outside
would quickly dissipate and cause very little inconvenience to anyone
(unless it was a particularly packed platform) - keeping everyone happy.

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

On 4 Jul, 13:21, BRB Class 465 wrote:


Regardless of any possible risks to health, myself and plenty of other
non-smokers find it thoroughly unpleasant to occupy an area where
people are smoking. This is fair game where it is a designated area
like in a restaurant, but there's nothing more annoying than waiting
on a station platform and someone lighting up. This ban is not before
time, and I for one hope it gets further extended in the future.

Right. If I'm standing waiting for a train having a bunch of smoker
stand around me and light up (its happened all too often) is really
horrid. It can set off my asthma and makes me feel yuck for some time
afterwards.

Obviously if smokers *really* wanted to carry on with what they were
doing they would have (a) organised themselves to be more considerate
(eg by having designated smoking places on platforms) (b) lobbied
their manufacturers (who aren't poor) into making less polluting ways
of enjoying their addiction (as has happened with most other
technology).

But no. Absolutely nothing has been done by any smoking group to get a
way to smoke without causing lots of unpleasantness to others. That is
why I feel little sympathy (and much joy) that, after 40 years, I can
go some places without breathing in smoke. I look forward to the ban
in all public places in due course.

Francis

No-Smoking policy at open-air NR stations
 

In article ,
Obadiah Jones wrote:
Its just that in the past a simple 'no smoking' or
'burning-fag-with-red-slash' pictogram seems to have proved sufficient
deterrent on trains etc, even though lighting up was illegal under the
Byelaw. Now that NR stations put up the same 'statutory'-type signs
that pubs, shops, etc have to display, it does tend to imply that they
want people to believe that the blanket ban at stations is a result of
the new law.

Silverlink open-air stations have 'ordinary' no-smoking signs (or
at least, the ones at Upper Holloway were ordinary; I haven't checked
all Silverlinks stations).

--
Shenanigans! Shenanigans! Best of 3!
-- Flash