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I think London Underground is the only major underground system in the
world that actually tells passengers when their service is good (probably to celebrate this rate occasion?). Today at Stratford station I heard an expanded version - "Ladies and gentleman! There is a good service on the Central line from this station. I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line". Now aside from the questionable need for such announcement at all I see at least three unneeded parts in the announcement: 1. "Ladies and gentleman" (pretending to be polite is even worse then being impolite) 2. "from this station" (because, God forbid, there will be no Central line service from all other stations???) 3. "I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line" (is there any need to repeat that???) And don't get me started on the constant announcements for the stupid: "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the platforms of the Stratford station today - the floors has become slippery. This is due to adverse weather conditions." ("adverse weather conditions" - wtf? was it hard to say that it is raining???) "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the stairs and platforms on the Docklands Light Railway. Take special care of the children." (aka "watch your steps"?) And more from the status updates: "Ladies and gentleman! This is your status update from the control room at Liverpool Street. We have a good service on all underground lines. There are no reported station closures." (I don't care where this update comes from - this is not a radio station, dammit! And if there is not closed stations, or if the service is fine - then there is no need to say anything!) The DLR scrolling announcements are even funnier: for more then a year now they constantly show the message that "No lift service at Shadwell". I'm sure that 99,9% of DLR passengers never used this lift and would prefer to see the time when their train will arrive instead! It is actually hard to see between constant reminders to change at Poplar for other destinations (don't the already have the signs and the maps to show this?) or keep my belongings with me at all times. Urgh... |
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"alex_t" wrote in message ups.com... I think London Underground is the only major underground system in the world that actually tells passengers when their service is good (probably to celebrate this rate occasion?). Today at Stratford station I heard an expanded version - "Ladies and gentleman! There is a good service on the Central line from this station. I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line". Now aside from the questionable need for such announcement at all I see at least three unneeded parts in the announcement: 1. "Ladies and gentleman" (pretending to be polite is even worse then being impolite) 2. "from this station" (because, God forbid, there will be no Central line service from all other stations???) 3. "I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line" (is there any need to repeat that???) And don't get me started on the constant announcements for the stupid: "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the platforms of the Stratford station today - the floors has become slippery. This is due to adverse weather conditions." ("adverse weather conditions" - wtf? was it hard to say that it is raining???) "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the stairs and platforms on the Docklands Light Railway. Take special care of the children." (aka "watch your steps"?) And more from the status updates: "Ladies and gentleman! This is your status update from the control room at Liverpool Street. We have a good service on all underground lines. There are no reported station closures." (I don't care where this update comes from - this is not a radio station, dammit! And if there is not closed stations, or if the service is fine - then there is no need to say anything!) The DLR scrolling announcements are even funnier: for more then a year now they constantly show the message that "No lift service at Shadwell". I'm sure that 99,9% of DLR passengers never used this lift and would prefer to see the time when their train will arrive instead! It is actually hard to see between constant reminders to change at Poplar for other destinations (don't the already have the signs and the maps to show this?) or keep my belongings with me at all times. I remember not so long ago when the bottom line of those platform indicators on the main lines used to helpfully alternate between the destination of the 2nd and 3rd trains to arrive. Now they seem to alternate between the No Smoking or else, and Fast Trains regularly pass this platform. Progress? Paul |
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"alex_t" wrote in message ups.com... I think London Underground is the only major underground system in the world that actually tells passengers when their service is good (probably to celebrate this rate occasion?). You're right, it's probably because it's the only one that has occasions when it runs badly. tim |
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alex_t wrote:
Today at Stratford station I heard an expanded version - "Ladies and gentleman! There is a good service on the Central line from this station. I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line". I've always understood these to be in code. The statement "good service on the X line" means that lines Y & Z are truly buggered but we're going to ignore that and put emphasis on the positive aspects of the service. On a good few occasions the "good service" announcement has flown in the face of the self-evident delays or a broken down/out-of-service tube being detrained at the platform. ESB |
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On Jul 9, 7:56 pm, Ernst S Blofeld
wrote: alex_t wrote: Today at Stratford station I heard an expanded version - "Ladies and gentleman! There is a good service on the Central line from this station. I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line". I've always understood these to be in code. The statement "good service on the X line" means that lines Y & Z are truly buggered but we're going to ignore that and put emphasis on the positive aspects of the service. On a good few occasions the "good service" announcement has flown in the face of the self-evident delays or a broken down/out-of-service tube being detrained at the platform. ESB When the Olympic Committee visited London, LUL had to keep everything out as a Good service to make it look good! Even though on some lines there were waits of 15-20 minutes, |
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On Jul 9, 6:49 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: "alex_t" wrote in message ups.com... I think London Underground is the only major underground system in the world that actually tells passengers when their service is good (probably to celebrate this rate occasion?). Today at Stratford station I heard an expanded version - "Ladies and gentleman! There is a good service on the Central line from this station. I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line". Now aside from the questionable need for such announcement at all I see at least three unneeded parts in the announcement: 1. "Ladies and gentleman" (pretending to be polite is even worse then being impolite) 2. "from this station" (because, God forbid, there will be no Central line service from all other stations???) 3. "I repeat, there is a good service on the Central line" (is there any need to repeat that???) And don't get me started on the constant announcements for the stupid: "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the platforms of the Stratford station today - the floors has become slippery. This is due to adverse weather conditions." ("adverse weather conditions" - wtf? was it hard to say that it is raining???) "Ladies and gentleman! Be careful when using the stairs and platforms on the Docklands Light Railway. Take special care of the children." (aka "watch your steps"?) And more from the status updates: "Ladies and gentleman! This is your status update from the control room at Liverpool Street. We have a good service on all underground lines. There are no reported station closures." (I don't care where this update comes from - this is not a radio station, dammit! And if there is not closed stations, or if the service is fine - then there is no need to say anything!) The DLR scrolling announcements are even funnier: for more then a year now they constantly show the message that "No lift service at Shadwell". I'm sure that 99,9% of DLR passengers never used this lift and would prefer to see the time when their train will arrive instead! It is actually hard to see between constant reminders to change at Poplar for other destinations (don't the already have the signs and the maps to show this?) or keep my belongings with me at all times. I remember not so long ago when the bottom line of those platform indicators on the main lines used to helpfully alternate between the destination of the 2nd and 3rd trains to arrive. Now they seem to alternate between the No Smoking or else, and Fast Trains regularly pass this platform. Progress? Paul- The other day, all the platform indicators on the Lewisham extension of the DLR were continuously scrolling with information about a service disruption at the far end of the Beckton branch, and nothing else. It's possible that some people were planning to continue their journey in that direction, but very likely to be a minority, and even they might have liked some information about the time and destination of trains approaching the station they were currently waiting at. |
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On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:42:45 -0700, alex_t
wrote: The DLR scrolling announcements are even funnier: for more then a year now they constantly show the message that "No lift service at Shadwell". Regardless of who does or doesn't use it, isn't it a bit of a disgrace that it has been out of service for that long? Surely it could have been replaced if not repairable in that time. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
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Last week I saw the opposite side of the coin on the Amsterdam metro.
Lightening over 2 nights had knackered the 54 Wed morn, and everything Thurs morn in the central zone (that'd be 5700 for geeks). The signs? All normal. The end stations rotated as per a normal day but with no times. The 54 was stopping short northbound in an outer station but the signs promised a Centraal Station that it would not reach that day, while shunting back south on the n/b platform. In other words, LU can handle a crisis better probably due to more experience sadly. The A'dam GVB could have done with some whiteboards last week. That didn't prevent a Heathrow 4 sign promising next train "1 in 7min", train "2 in 7 min" for over 20 minutes last Friday. And as for the random different clock times in HattonX... -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
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On Jul 9, 6:42 pm, alex_t wrote:
1. "Ladies and gentleman" (pretending to be polite is even worse then being impolite) The opening bits of an announcement should always be "disposable", as it give a moment for people to register that ther's an announcement, and start listening. For some people, including you, this can be annoying, but some need that extra moment. By launching straight into the important bit of the announcement, a lot of people will miss it completely because they won't "tune in" quickly enough. I appreciate that with constant announcements nowadays this probably doesn't matter too much overall, but that is the intention. That said, even using "Tell them you're going to tell them something; tell them; then tell them what you said", some people still miss it! PhilD -- |
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On Jul 10, 9:59 am, PhilD wrote:
On Jul 9, 6:42 pm, alex_t wrote: 1. "Ladies and gentleman" (pretending to be polite is even worse then being impolite) The opening bits of an announcement should always be "disposable", as it give a moment for people to register that ther's an announcement, and start listening. For some people, including you, this can be annoying, but some need that extra moment. By launching straight into the important bit of the announcement, a lot of people will miss it completely because they won't "tune in" quickly enough. I appreciate that with constant announcements nowadays this probably doesn't matter too much overall, but that is the intention. That said, even using "Tell them you're going to tell them something; tell them; then tell them what you said", some people still miss it! The trouble is that the preambles aren't true. If you hear "Your attention please; here is a special announcement ..." you can guarantee that there will be absolutely nothing special about the announcement. If the announcement is special and important, it will probably be garbled. Also lately I've been hearing "Here is a customer announcement", which I would have expected to be for someone specific, like "Frank Bowman, please go to the office where you lost daughter is waiting" or something, but this precedes "Please keep your personal belongings with you ..." etc. |
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On Jul 10, 10:19 am, MIG wrote:
The trouble is that the preambles aren't true. If you hear "Your attention please; here is a special announcement ..." you can guarantee that there will be absolutely nothing special about the announcement. That's true. As with all things, it has to be Done Properly to work. Eliminate the guff, use appropriate phrases, and so on. As you will appreciate, I was pointing out WHY certain things are said. Whether that is the BEST certain thing is an entirely separate debate! PhilD -- |
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PhilD wrote:
That's true. As with all things, it has to be Done Properly to work. Eliminate the guff, use appropriate phrases, and so on. As you will appreciate, I was pointing out WHY certain things are said. Whether that is the BEST certain thing is an entirely separate debate! I think everyone understands why there is a lead-in and the OP's debate *is* about the content as far as I understood. One of the worst abuses, IMHO, is the "This is a security announcement" phrase which exclusively prefixes the advice about not leaving unattended baggage. One day it might actually be a security announcement but there'll be a bunch of desensitized people oblivious to it. ESB |
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"Ernst S Blofeld" wrote in message ... PhilD wrote: That's true. As with all things, it has to be Done Properly to work. Eliminate the guff, use appropriate phrases, and so on. As you will appreciate, I was pointing out WHY certain things are said. Whether that is the BEST certain thing is an entirely separate debate! I think everyone understands why there is a lead-in and the OP's debate *is* about the content as far as I understood. One of the worst abuses, IMHO, is the "This is a security announcement" phrase which exclusively prefixes the advice about not leaving unattended baggage. One day it might actually be a security announcement but there'll be a bunch of desensitized people oblivious to it. Especially the ones caught up in the blast, I should think... Paul |
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On 10 Jul, 09:59, PhilD wrote:
I appreciate that with constant announcements nowadays this probably doesn't matter too much overall, but that is the intention. The problem with the constant announcements is that people just start to tune them out as so much background noise. If a really important announcement was made half of the passengers would probably ignore it anyway since they wouldn't be listening. Another irritation is the constant use of "customer" instead of passenger. Isn't it about time LU grew up and dragged itself out of 1990s trendy management speak? B2003 |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:19:04 -0700, MIG wrote:
The trouble is that the preambles aren't true. If you hear "Your attention please; here is a special announcement ..." you can guarantee that there will be absolutely nothing special about the announcement. On the Jubilee Line, every so often the in-car displays flash "IMPORTANT" several times (or a similar word, I forget exactly). This is followed by a message telling you to take your bags with you when you get off the train. Of course, the only thing this achieves is to train the passengers to ignore the flashing notice, so that in the event of actually having to transmit an important message, this avenue is no longer available. |
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Ah, the Jubilee - there is nothing better then constant announcements
that "This train terminates at Stratford" when ALL trains terminate at Stratford. Same on the Northern line - "This train terminates at Morden"* * - I understand that this announcements are necessary in opposite directions (especially for Northern), but why bug eastbound/southbound passengers. |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, alex_t wrote:
Ah, the Jubilee - there is nothing better then constant announcements that "This train terminates at Stratford" when ALL trains terminate at Stratford. Same on the Northern line - "This train terminates at Morden"* Some do turn round at Kennington, and that's quite important. But once the train's south of there, yes, this does seem a bit pointless. Presumably the technology is just too inflexible to handle this. Although since that degree of sophistication would be easily attainable by a bright 10-year-old working on a BBC Micro, i am at a loss to explain why! tom -- Pave the world |
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On Jul 10, 6:18 pm, alex_t wrote:
Ah, the Jubilee - there is nothing better then constant announcements that "This train terminates at Stratford" when ALL trains terminate at Stratford. Same on the Northern line - "This train terminates at Morden"* * - I understand that this announcements are necessary in opposite directions (especially for Northern), but why bug eastbound/southbound passengers. And you can see it on the platform and at the front of the train. Kind of strange that there's no equivalent for buses, where there's usually only what you see at the front, and yet a bus that stops short results in you having to pay twice, whereas if your train terminates at North Greenwich, you don't lose anything. |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:18:36 -0700, alex_t
wrote: Ah, the Jubilee - there is nothing better then constant announcements that "This train terminates at Stratford" when ALL trains terminate at Stratford. Same on the Northern line - "This train terminates at Morden"* Sorry but trains can and do terminate at North Greenwich, West Ham and Stratford heading east on the Jubilee Line. Similarly on the Northern Line trains can and do terminate at Euston, Charing Cross, Kennington, Tooting Broadway and Morden. Some of these are only used on rare occasions but announcements and displays are needed to cover this. * - I understand that this announcements are necessary in opposite directions (especially for Northern), but why bug eastbound/southbound passengers. You may consider these things to be a bug but I assume you have decent vision and hearing. For those who do not or who may not be familiar with the LU system then these messages are a source of important confirmatory information and reassurance. If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll react to the I-Bus system on the bus network. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... You may consider these things to be a bug but I assume you have decent vision and hearing. For those who do not or who may not be familiar with the LU system then these messages are a source of important confirmatory information and reassurance. A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even speak English. But no matter. So long as you shout at them loud enough in English they're bound to understand. The Basil Fawlty approach. Especialy all those non-English speaking foreign vistors who choose to travel during the rush hour when the trains are packed out with commuters. They mustn't be inconvenienced at any cost. If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll react to the I-Bus system on the bus network. Presumably that's another monopoly which will give the operators as much scope to patronise their bread and butter as does the London Underground. Because let's face it chum you'd need to be a simpleton to start with, to willingly pay £20 a week for the privilidge of being treated like one for two hours every day. michael adams .... -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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michael adams wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... You may consider these things to be a bug but I assume you have decent vision and hearing. For those who do not or who may not be familiar with the LU system then these messages are a source of important confirmatory information and reassurance. A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even speak English. There are lots of visitors who do speak English. Some of them post on this group asking for directions. Many more do not. Anyway, you don't need much of a command of the English language to find the station name being mentioned useful. They mustn't be inconvenienced at any cost. They're already inconvenienced. Because let's face it chum you'd need to be a simpleton to start with, to willingly pay £20 a week for the privilidge of being treated like one for two hours every day. Tell us how you really feel. -- Michael Hoffman |
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Sorry but trains can and do terminate at North Greenwich, West Ham and Stratford heading east on the Jubilee Line. Similarly on the Northern Line trains can and do terminate at Euston, Charing Cross, Kennington, Tooting Broadway and Morden. Some of these are only used on rare occasions but announcements and displays are needed to cover this. Well, I use Jubilee frequently and only once the train terminated at North Greenwich (without any warnings before actually stopping at N. Greenwich) - everything else continued to Stratford. As for Northern, I was talking only about the southbound part south of Kennington - where once again I've yet to catch any train going NOT to Morden (but I use Northern much less frequently, so I'm probably wrong). Anyway, the point is that many other mass transit systems do not announce the destination if the destination is the end of the line and most trains usually go there. The announcements only made when the destination is unusual. LUL for some reason uses more railway-like announcements, which is understandable on some lines, but rather strange on others. If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll react to the I-Bus system on the bus network. I was just in the mood for a quick rant. Much better now, thank you :-) And don't tell me that you think that all those excessive "security" or "important" announcements are actually needed. |
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A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even speak English. The majority of the names of places/destinations sound the same in all languages. Presumably that's another monopoly which will give the operators as much scope to patronise their bread and butter as does the London Underground. Paranoid much? |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:53:53 -0700, alex_t
wrote: Sorry but trains can and do terminate at North Greenwich, West Ham and Stratford heading east on the Jubilee Line. Similarly on the Northern Line trains can and do terminate at Euston, Charing Cross, Kennington, Tooting Broadway and Morden. Some of these are only used on rare occasions but announcements and displays are needed to cover this. Well, I use Jubilee frequently and only once the train terminated at North Greenwich (without any warnings before actually stopping at N. Greenwich) - everything else continued to Stratford. As for Northern, I was talking only about the southbound part south of Kennington - where once again I've yet to catch any train going NOT to Morden (but I use Northern much less frequently, so I'm probably wrong). Anyway, the point is that many other mass transit systems do not announce the destination if the destination is the end of the line and most trains usually go there. The announcements only made when the destination is unusual. LUL for some reason uses more railway-like announcements, which is understandable on some lines, but rather strange on others. Many lines on other networks are end to end and have no overlapping service patterns or branches. London has those in abundance and therefore information has to be provided. Certain other networks do make announcements about destinations, interchanges and safety announcements - Hong Kong MTR makes them in three languages for every stop including telling you what side the platform will be on at the next stop. Personally I find that very helpful as a visitor. If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll react to the I-Bus system on the bus network. I was just in the mood for a quick rant. Much better now, thank you :-) So glad to be of service. And don't tell me that you think that all those excessive "security" or "important" announcements are actually needed. one of the biggest gripes about the system is lack of information - this has been proven time and again via market research and customer complaints. A number of initiatives like "Good Service" and the line boards showing service status and the announcements were brought in under Tim O'Toole's instruction. I'll be the first to say it is not always perfect when an incident has happened and displays and announcements haven't caught up. I get particularly irritated to be told "good service" when the DMI shows 8 minutes for a train! However I do really like the service status boards and I will always check them before going through the gates. It is recognised that practice on announcements and messages at some parts of the network is wrong and excessive. Work is being done to give sensible guidelines to staff to get the right frequency and tone of messages - give it some time and I'm sure things will improve. I think people are forgetting that the security situation and assessment of risk to the tube network means that certain things *have* to be said. You only need to look at the impact of security alerts on the service just because people have left bags, boxes and other items lying around. The fact people leave them behind warrants a reminder! The "stand behind the yellow line" announcements are because the platform train interface is an area of high safety risk and people do not properly understand what sorts of accidents can happen if they get too close to the edge of the platform / close to a moving train. These announcements are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and security of the system. I'm sure I will now get lambasted for "defending" what everyone seems to hate. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: These announcements are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and security of the system. The problem with them is that, because there are too many of them, they become background noise, and people do not pay attention to them. IMO, the poster campaigns are far more effective at getting attention regarding the matters concerned. As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
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On 10 Jul, 21:10, (Neil Williams)
wrote: As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance. "there is a normal service on the Northern line; there is a good service on all other lines", etc. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
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On Jul 10, 9:10 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:14 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote: These announcements are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and security of the system. The problem with them is that, because there are too many of them, they become background noise, and people do not pay attention to them. IMO, the poster campaigns are far more effective at getting attention regarding the matters concerned. As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance. They did use "normal service" for a while. Every time I heard that there was a normal service on all lines I thought "So, Circle line not running, signal failure on the Jubilee ..." etc etc. Good is definitely not normal. |
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Boltar wrote:
Another irritation is the constant use of "customer" instead of passenger. The classic is the "... line has been part suspended due to a *customer* under a train ...". It is good to see the customer relationship being valued even in such trying circumstances. At Kings Cross many moons ago, I saw a notice that avoided "customer" but clearly wished to draw a clear line between 'us and them'; "The escalator is out of service due to action by a fellow passenger". That'll be one of our lot then. We should hang our heads in shame. ESB |
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The trouble is that the preambles aren't true. If you hear "Your
attention please; here is a special announcement ..." you can guarantee that there will be absolutely nothing special about the announcement. On the Jubilee Line, every so often the in-car displays flash "IMPORTANT" several times (or a similar word, I forget exactly). This is followed by a message telling you to take your bags with you when you get off the train. On the Toronto subway (underground) these days, the TTC has a regular program of stupid pre-recorded announcements in the stations. Show your student ID card when paying student fares! Don't try to board a train after the door-closing chime! On weekends a Day Pass can be shared! No smoking on the TTC! Take all your belongings with you when you leave the train! (The actual wording in each case is significantly longer.) They always play them in pairs -- and, lately, each pair of stupid announcements is preceded by the same attention-getting melody. On other other hand, when they actually have something to announce that you need to hear, i.e. about a service problem, (1) they just announce it without the melody, and (2) half the time you can't make out what they're saying. -- Mark Brader | "What a strange field. Studying beings instead of mathematics. Toronto | Could lead to recursive problems in logic." | -- Robert L. Forward (The Flight of the Dragonfly) My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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In article .com,
alex_t wrote: Ah, the Jubilee - there is nothing better then constant announcements that "This train terminates at Stratford" when ALL trains terminate at Stratford. They don't all teminate at Straford; some of them terminate at Stanmore, so the announcments are useful to infrequent travelers who might like to be reassured that they got on a train going the right way. Even if you pretend that noone could make a mistake like that, some trains eastbound will be terminated at West Ham or other locations if they are turned short. Sometimes, if one finds oneself on a train that isn't going all the way, the choice of station to wait for the next train can make a difference to the ease of the interchange, particularly for those with heavy luggage - for example, if an Eastbound trains is turned short at North Greenwich, you are probably better waiting at Canary Wharf for the next train to Stratford as that'll avoid 2 flights of stairs at Greenwich. -- Shenanigans! Shenanigans! Best of 3! -- Flash |
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In article ,
Ernst S Blofeld wrote: The classic is the "... line has been part suspended due to a *customer* under a train ...". It is good to see the customer relationship being valued even in such trying circumstances. At the point they're under the train, they're not going to go very far on LuL services, so calling them a passenger is a bit much. And while I might prefer "selfish idiot", it seems a bit unfair to label folk thus when most of them are ill, and the remainder careless. -- Shenanigans! Shenanigans! Best of 3! -- Flash |
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Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Ernst S Blofeld wrote: The classic is the "... line has been part suspended due to a *customer* under a train ...". It is good to see the customer relationship being valued even in such trying circumstances. At the point they're under the train, they're not going to go very far on LuL services, so calling them a passenger is a bit much. And while I might prefer "selfish idiot", it seems a bit unfair to label folk thus when most of them are ill, and the remainder careless. You've missed the point. Calling them a *passenger* is equally as ridiculous. It is the fact there is a *person* under a train that is the problem - their status or relationship with TfL is irrelevant to the disruption. ESB |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:14 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
Anyway, the point is that many other mass transit systems do not announce the destination if the destination is the end of the line and most trains usually go there. The announcements only made when the destination is unusual. LUL for some reason uses more railway-like announcements, which is understandable on some lines, but rather strange on others. Many lines on other networks are end to end and have no overlapping service patterns or branches. London has those in abundance and therefore information has to be provided. Certain other networks do make announcements about destinations, interchanges and safety announcements - Hong Kong MTR makes them in three languages for every stop including telling you what side the platform will be on at the next stop. Actually, that's a good example of only making the announcement in the case of something unusual. The MTR uses left-hand running with mostly island platforms, so most platforms are on the right-hand side of the train. If the next station has its platform on the left side, the announcement is made that "doors will open on the left". If its platform is on the right side, *no* announcement about this is made. I think people are forgetting that the security situation and assessment of risk to the tube network means that certain things *have* to be said. You only need to look at the impact of security alerts on the service just because people have left bags, boxes and other items lying around. The fact people leave them behind warrants a reminder! But it surely only works if the reminder takes place just as they are leaving their belongings behind. Is there any empirical evidence that these announcements actually make a difference? |
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"alex_t" wrote in message oups.com... And don't tell me that you think that all those excessive "security" or "important" announcements are actually needed. TRANSEC - Transport Secuity Agency do. There is a minimum requirement from them to play security announcements every 10 minutes. If service information changes shortly after one being played, you will invariably hear another security announcement before the 10 minute standard as even the most modern PA systems provided do not allow you to change one message whilst the system is running with others. You have to stop all messages, insert your new recording then queue them all up to play again. |
Too much information!
On 11 Jul, 12:36, Mike Bristow wrote:
might prefer "selfish idiot", it seems a bit unfair to label folk thus when most of them are ill, and the remainder careless. Not always , some people have been pushed. Usually by some nutter who hasn't taken their medication because it stops them hearing the pixies. B2003 |
Too much information!
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Paul Corfield wrote:
I think people are forgetting that the security situation and assessment of risk to the tube network means that certain things *have* to be said. You only need to look at the impact of security alerts on the service just because people have left bags, boxes and other items lying around. The fact people leave them behind warrants a reminder! If *and only if* those announcements are actually effective. The whole point of the whinge is that because people hear them every five minutes every day, they tune them out, and they have no effect. If this is true, the announcements are a Bad Thing; if not, they're a Good Thing. Until someone points us to a study which actually determines this, we're all ****ing in the wind. I'm sure I will now get lambasted for "defending" what everyone seems to hate. Yep! :) tom -- Come on thunder; come on thunder. |
Too much information!
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Paul Corfield wrote: I think people are forgetting that the security situation and assessment of risk to the tube network means that certain things *have* to be said. You only need to look at the impact of security alerts on the service just because people have left bags, boxes and other items lying around. The fact people leave them behind warrants a reminder! If *and only if* those announcements are actually effective. The whole point of the whinge is that because people hear them every five minutes every day, they tune them out, and they have no effect. If this is true, the announcements are a Bad Thing; if not, they're a Good Thing. Until someone points us to a study which actually determines this, we're all ****ing in the wind. Don't know if there have been any specific studies about those announcements. But it has long been axiomatic in human factor research that too many warnings causes people to start ignoring the warnings. You could repeat the notice "This is a security announcement: Please do not leave personal belongings unattended" every few minutes. If it is ignored you are no worse off than not making the announcement from the point of view of leaving bags unattended. But when you have a really important security announcement, lots of people will ignore it. I know that at my local station when I hear "this is a special announcement" it means just the opposite and I can safely tune out. -- Michael Hoffman |
Too much information!
Recently I was a witness of evacuation from Stratford station (because
of "customer under a train"). About half of the people did not evacuate until they were told that by station staff - they totally ignored the announcements. Of course it was usual Stratford crowd, so you can argue that they just did not understand the announcement as it wasn't in Polish :-) |
Too much information!
alex_t wrote:
Recently I was a witness of evacuation from Stratford station (because of "customer under a train"). About half of the people did not evacuate until they were told that by station staff - they totally ignored the announcements. If the station staff were in the habit of yelling "please do not leave your bags unattended" every 10 minutes they probably would have been ignored too. -- Michael Hoffman |
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