"Terry Harper" wrote in message
...
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , Roland Perry
writes
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road
(see Other road markings section). You MUST NOT enter the box until
your
exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait
when
you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming
traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

It seems to me that this advice is rather naive, because it assumes
that
the only impediment to the "car in front of you that's also waiting to
turn right" is the flow of oncoming traffic - which will eventually
stop.

The wording appears to have changed. It *was* something like "...
oncoming traffic going ahead or also turning right". In other words,
*one* car can wait on the box to turn right from each direction, but
that's all; the second car in each queue must wait to enter the box,
just as when going straight ahead.

Is this one of those cases where the London habit of turning right
involves
passing off-side to off-side with the other turning traffic, instead of
the
system used everywhere else of passing nearside to nearside? The other
traffic waiting to turn right may be travelling in the opposite direction.

The "approved" method of turning right, as described in the Highway Code and
Roadcraft is to pass offside to offside (ie with the drivers' sides next to
each other) as this gives each driver a clear view of the oncoming traffic
so he can judge when it's safe for him to turn. However it is a classic case
of the safer method also being the less efficient because with most junction
layouts, each car partially blocks the other's path, so both drivers must
move at the same time - or not at all.

Where there is sufficent room, it is more efficient for cars to pass
nearside to nearside, such that neither car blocks the other's path and each
can move independently of the other - but this is only really safe if both
cars can pull forward far enough not to block each other's view of the
oncoming traffic. Some junctions actually have lane markings and arrows
which make it clear that this is what traffic must do.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 01:24:20 GMT, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

Seeing the above Highway Code URL has reminded me of the rule about
turning
into a road where pedestrians are crossing. Notice that it says "if they
are
already crossing". As a cyclist and a driver, I've seen a lot of
pedestrians
treating sideroads as if they were zebra crossings - ie as if they have
the
right to hold traffic up indefinitely, rather than waiting until the road
is
clear before crossing :-( As a pedestrian, I wouldn't dream of starting
to
cross a road (except on a zebra crossing or a pelican crossing) unless it
was safe to do so.

While many may be doing this just out of stubbornness, it's useful to
know that, in Germany, pedestrians legally have the right of way over
turning cars at this kind of junction. Indeed, the pedestrian lights
turn green when the traffic lights are still green in one direction.

I wonder how Germany's "pedestrians have priority" rule arose? I reckon our
way of doing things is much better: a green light (when you eventually get
it) really does mean "you can go" (either for pedestrians or for vehicles,
at different times) rather than "you can *both* go, but pedestrians have
priority over vehicles".


The junctions that always confuse me are the ones with two sets of lights,
one for traffic going straight on and another for traffic turning right. I'm
so conditioned to stopping at a red light that I find it very difficult to
drive straight ahead through a green light when faced also with the red
light for traffic turning right. What woudl be much better is if all the
right-turn lights were arrows (ie a red arrow, as well as a green arrow) to
make it more clear in the heat of the moment that this light only applies to
traffic that's turning right.

Peter Crosland wrote:
They have the same status as a STOP sign and there does not need to
be any other for them to take effect.

In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign? You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them is allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign?
You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them is
allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

Is it? IWUTI that your exit had to be clear *before* venturing into
the box

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml

=====
Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may
enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing
so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
=====


Robin

"Robin Cox" wrote in message
...
"Stimpy" wrote in message
...

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop
sign?
You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on*
them is
allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

Is it? IWUTI that your exit had to be clear *before* venturing
into
the box

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml

=====
Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
However, you may
enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only
stopped from doing
so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Cooo... you live and learn :-)

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:45:24 GMT, "Robin Cox"
wrote:

"Robin Smith" wrote in message
om...
I have recently received a penalty notice for stopping in a box
junction on a busy London road intersection. I recognise that I did
stop in the box junction, for some time, and probably blocked the
crossing traffic, and I intend to pay the fine.

I have reviewed the thread on "Bus Lane Penalties" and noticed that
where (temporary) bus lanes are not legally registered, bus lane
penalties can be avoided. As a matter of legal interest, I am
wondering whether there are any similar legal loopholes with respect
to box junction penalties? For example, the road in question is
reasonably well worn, and I am wondering whether there are any
requirements around the painting on the box junctions? Or, as with
recent speed camera loopholes, are there any specific requirements for
the signs associated with box junctions?

Three Robins on one thread - it must be Christmas!

If you wait poplestone will probably turn up and tell you that you it
was your fault for speedling in a hatched (no mater which Robin it
was).

--
This post does not reflect the opinions of all saggy cloth
cats be they a bit loose at the seams or not
GSX600F - Matilda the (now) two eared teapot, complete with
white gaffer tape, though no rectal chainsaw

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:51:37 +0100, "Stimpy"
wrote:



In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign?
You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them is
allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

Is it? IWUTI that your exit had to be clear *before* venturing into
the box


But what if your exit road is clear when you go into the box, but gets
blocked by oncoming cars turning left and then witing in a queue? :-)

"K" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:51:37 +0100, "Stimpy"

wrote:



In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop
sign?
You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them
is
allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

Is it? IWUTI that your exit had to be clear *before* venturing
into
the box

But what if your exit road is clear when you go into the box, but
gets
blocked by oncoming cars turning left and then witing in a queue?
:-)

I don't think the Highway Code provides advice as to best course of
action to take under that particular set of circumstances. A recent
posting established exactly what the Code does advise...

In the sense that it is a road sign. Parking restrictions and bus lanes
require statutory notices to be published to allow them to be enforced.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:51:37 +0100, Stimpy
wrote in :

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign?
You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them is
allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

Is it? IWUTI that your exit had to be clear *before* venturing into
the box

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road
(see Other road markings section). You MUST NOT enter the box until your
exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when
you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming
traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
-- Highway Code

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN