Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

I was at least half cut so probably missed something obvious, however
this is what I found...

My Fleet to London Terminals season ticket did not operate the
barriers, to be honest I'm not sure whether it's valid at West
Brompton or not.

Despite the gates being closed, there was no member of staff visible
who I could have asked for advice.

I could see no ticket machine selling National Rail tickets.

There were Underground ticket machines, but Clapham Junction was not
listed as a destination.

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

So - what should have I done? Is there something obvious that I
missed? However I remember last time I made this journey I couldn't
work it out either - but it was a Sunday afternoon and the barriers
were opened and I just walked through.

Finally - how can I get the journey resolved? Last time, when I
foolishly walked through an open barrier at Euston without swiping my
card, I got it sorted out at a Tube ticket office, however will this
still work as it was a National rail journey?

Phil Clark wrote:

Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

[...]

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

So - what should have I done? Is there something obvious that I
missed?


The problem is that Oyster PAYG is not valid on that particular National
Rail route. The Oyster readers at West Brompton are intended for
District Line passengers only.

A map showing which National Rail sections where Oyster PAYG is valid:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...YG-Diagram.pdf

I don't remember the West Brompton station as I have not been there for
a long time, but it sound strange that there was no National Rail ticket
machine there... Without such a machine and with the station unstaffed I
don't know what you were supposed to do, especially because you would
have had to pay penalty fare if you had been caught buy a ticket
inspector on the train (because Oyster PAYG is not valid).

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

On Aug 12, 6:22 pm, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
Phil Clark wrote:
Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

[...]

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

So - what should have I done? Is there something obvious that I
missed?

The problem is that Oyster PAYG is not valid on that particular National
Rail route. The Oyster readers at West Brompton are intended for
District Line passengers only.

A map showing which National Rail sections where Oyster PAYG is valid:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...YG-Diagram.pdf

I don't remember the West Brompton station as I have not been there for
a long time, but it sound strange that there was no National Rail ticket
machine there... Without such a machine and with the station unstaffed I
don't know what you were supposed to do, especially because you would
have had to pay penalty fare if you had been caught buy a ticket
inspector on the train (because Oyster PAYG is not valid).


My first reaction is to consider a complaint on safety (and ripoff)
grounds that the gates were closed when no staff were available, even
if just for a comfort break.

To avoid the unresolved journey, you could have touched at an exit
gate in the subway at Clapham Junction. For once, this wouldn't have
been a great inconvenience, because you'd have to go through either
the subway or the bridge to get to the platform for Fleet anyway.

On Aug 12, 7:11 pm, MIG wrote:
On Aug 12, 6:22 pm, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:





Phil Clark wrote:
Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

[...]

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

So - what should have I done? Is there something obvious that I
missed?

The problem is that Oyster PAYG is not valid on that particular National
Rail route. The Oyster readers at West Brompton are intended for
District Line passengers only.

A map showing which National Rail sections where Oyster PAYG is valid:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...YG-Diagram.pdf

I don't remember the West Brompton station as I have not been there for
a long time, but it sound strange that there was no National Rail ticket
machine there... Without such a machine and with the station unstaffed I
don't know what you were supposed to do, especially because you would
have had to pay penalty fare if you had been caught buy a ticket
inspector on the train (because Oyster PAYG is not valid).

My first reaction is to consider a complaint on safety (and ripoff)
grounds that the gates were closed when no staff were available, even
if just for a comfort break.

To avoid the unresolved journey, you could have touched at an exit
gate in the subway at Clapham Junction. For once, this wouldn't have
been a great inconvenience, because you'd have to go through either
the subway or the bridge to get to the platform for Fleet anyway.-


Sorry, that's assuming PAYG is valid on the WLL. I realise it
probably isn't, so you would still be stuck. I lose track of the odd
little routes where it is valid. It will be as part of Overground,
presumably.

"Phil Clark" wrote in message
...

Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

I was at least half cut so probably missed something obvious, however
this is what I found...

My Fleet to London Terminals season ticket did not operate the
barriers, to be honest I'm not sure whether it's valid at West
Brompton or not.


I checked this in the opposite direction recently, although not on a season,
the SWT guard said that an Eastleigh to London Terminals did not allow
travel on the WLL, so I guess a Fleet ticket wouldn't either.

There were Underground ticket machines, but Clapham Junction was not
listed as a destination.

Underground machines rarely include non Underground destinations.

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

So - what should have I done? Is there something obvious that I
missed? However I remember last time I made this journey I couldn't
work it out either - but it was a Sunday afternoon and the barriers
were opened and I just walked through.

Go to Wimbledon on the District and change there?

Finally - how can I get the journey resolved? Last time, when I
foolishly walked through an open barrier at Euston without swiping my
card, I got it sorted out at a Tube ticket office, however will this
still work as it was a National rail journey?

Possibly give the help line a ring and admit to 'forgetting to touch out
somewhere in zone 1'?

Paul S

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:12:08 GMT, Phil Clark wrote:

Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

My Fleet to London Terminals season ticket did not operate the
barriers, to be honest I'm not sure whether it's valid at West
Brompton or not.

It is. A Permitted Route from Fleet to London Terminals is via
Farnborough (Main), Farnborough North, Redhill, Clapham Junction,
Kensington Olympia, and Acton Main Line, to Paddington. Although it's
not possible to make this entire journey due to there being no trains
from Kensington Olympia to Acton Main Line, season tickets are also
valid for intermediate journeys, so West Brompton to Clapham Junction
is fine.

However, it's common for season tickets to not work in the gates at
every intermediate station.

Despite the gates being closed, there was no member of staff visible
who I could have asked for advice.

Closed gatelines must be monitored at all times (although this may be
done via CCTV). If there's no one around, the manual gate would
usually be left unlocked. Otherwise, you could call for assistance
using the button for this on the touch-screen ticket machine.

I could see no ticket machine selling National Rail tickets.

There were Underground ticket machines, but Clapham Junction was not
listed as a destination.

Underground touch-screen ticket machines sell tickets to all National
Rail stations in the zones (and the Network SouthEast area?).

Was the touch-screen ticket machine not working?

So at a loss I swiped my Oyster expecting to find an Oyster reader on
the platform at Clapham Junction.

However, I couldn't find one when I got there. So I have an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

There are Oyster readers on the ticket gates at the exits, but these
wouldn't have helped you in any case as they would reject PAYG-only
Oyster cards (PAYG is not valid to Clapham Junction).

Finally - how can I get the journey resolved? Last time, when I
foolishly walked through an open barrier at Euston without swiping my
card, I got it sorted out at a Tube ticket office, however will this
still work as it was a National rail journey?

It won't still work as (AFAIK) Tube ticket offices are now under
orders not to resolve anyone's journeys. You must phone the Oyster
helpline instead, although even then I'm not sure what would happen.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:29:22 +0100, asdf
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:12:08 GMT, Phil Clark wrote:

Last week, travelling home from the Great British Beer Festival, I
caught a train from West Brompton to Clapham Junction.

My Fleet to London Terminals season ticket did not operate the
barriers, to be honest I'm not sure whether it's valid at West
Brompton or not.

It is. A Permitted Route from Fleet to London Terminals is via
Farnborough (Main), Farnborough North, Redhill, Clapham Junction,
Kensington Olympia, and Acton Main Line, to Paddington.

I was not sure, although I do have a copy of the routing guidance
somewhere (I carry it with me when travelling on the Redhill line).

However, it's common for season tickets to not work in the gates at
every intermediate station.

In my case, any intermediate stations - it doesn't work at Woking, for
example, although indisputably valid there.

Despite the gates being closed, there was no member of staff visible
who I could have asked for advice.

Closed gatelines must be monitored at all times (although this may be
done via CCTV). If there's no one around, the manual gate would
usually be left unlocked.

I was a bit p*ssed, this didn't occur to me.

Otherwise, you could call for assistance
using the button for this on the touch-screen ticket machine.

Didn't notice that either.

I could see no ticket machine selling National Rail tickets.

There were Underground ticket machines, but Clapham Junction was not
listed as a destination.

Underground touch-screen ticket machines sell tickets to all National
Rail stations in the zones (and the Network SouthEast area?).

Didn't know that.

As it is also a National Rail station, would it not be a good idea to
have a sign up saying how to buy National Rail tickets? They really
should make it more obvious.

Was the touch-screen ticket machine not working?

It didn't look a likely way of buying an NR ticket.

Finally - how can I get the journey resolved? Last time, when I
foolishly walked through an open barrier at Euston without swiping my
card, I got it sorted out at a Tube ticket office, however will this
still work as it was a National rail journey?

It won't still work as (AFAIK) Tube ticket offices are now under
orders not to resolve anyone's journeys. You must phone the Oyster
helpline instead, although even then I'm not sure what would happen.

I will try, and say that I erroneously used it when my season ticket
was valid.

Thanks to everyone who posted,

Phil

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:38:34 GMT, Phil Clark wrote:

I could see no ticket machine selling National Rail tickets.

There were Underground ticket machines, but Clapham Junction was not
listed as a destination.

Underground touch-screen ticket machines sell tickets to all National
Rail stations in the zones (and the Network SouthEast area?).

Didn't know that.

As it is also a National Rail station, would it not be a good idea to
have a sign up saying how to buy National Rail tickets? They really
should make it more obvious.

Err, why? You buy them in exactly the same way as you buy Underground
tickets.

Was the touch-screen ticket machine not working?

It didn't look a likely way of buying an NR ticket.

If it was working, and you didn't even check, I have to say you
weren't trying very hard.

On Aug 13, 4:45 pm, asdf wrote:
As it is also a National Rail station, would it not be a good idea to
have a sign up saying how to buy National Rail tickets? They really
should make it more obvious.

Err, why? You buy them in exactly the same way as you buy Underground
tickets.


Yes, but it's entirely non-obvious that a ticket machine labelled
"London Underground" would sell NR tickets - while I might give one a
go on the off-chance if there were no other option, I certainly
wouldn't have expect it to do so before reading this thread - and I'm
fairly sure I'm more clued up [/geeky] about transport around London
than most people.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:46:00 -0000, John B wrote:

On Aug 13, 4:45 pm, asdf wrote:
As it is also a National Rail station, would it not be a good idea to
have a sign up saying how to buy National Rail tickets? They really
should make it more obvious.

Err, why? You buy them in exactly the same way as you buy Underground
tickets.


Yes, but it's entirely non-obvious that a ticket machine labelled
"London Underground" would sell NR tickets - while I might give one a
go on the off-chance if there were no other option, I certainly
wouldn't have expect it to do so before reading this thread - and I'm
fairly sure I'm more clued up [/geeky] about transport around London
than most people.

I was also not exactly sober at the time...

There is very little at West Brompton to tell you that it is an NR
station, once you're inside. And although I've lived and worked in
the London area for over 10 years, I probably haven't bought a ticket
at a tube station in all that time, apart from possibly the occasional
zone extension when I had a 1-4 travelcard, but I'm not even sure
about that. Since trading in my travelcard season ticket I have had
an Oyster.

Of course the answer is that Willesden Jcn - Clapham Jcn is exactly
the sort of inner urban rail route that should be on Oyster, and the
sooner it happens the better. Alternatively, if my season ticket is
valid, they should program the bloody gates properly. And in
addition, to find out the permitted route for your ticket there should
be an easy way of doing it through official channels, not by having to
ask geeky (but extremely helpful) people on newsgroups.

Thanks for everyone who posted: I have decided to write it off as one
of those things that happens when you're drunk, and not a particularly
expensive one at that.