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1938 Stock Tube Tours
So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First
impressions? :-) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
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1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, alex_t wrote:
So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) Not me, but i know at least one lurker did. I don't know if he'll post comments, but i'd bet my bottom dollar on photos appearing somewhere soon. tom -- NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:54:51 -0700, alex_t
wrote: So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) I was on the first trip, the 1039 Ealing Common - Rayners Lane - Charing X - Stanmore. It seemed exemplary to me. My car was not full, which surprised me, but there were plenty on the train in any case. The train seemed very lively indeed, and it seemed that it would have no trouble at all keeping up with today's services. The trip seemed very well organised. It was easy to pick up tickets at Ealing Common and the operation of the train was good, too. Turnarounds, such as the one in the Rayners Lane westbound, were very smart by virtue of the driver becoming the guard for the next leg. A good effort all round. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:54:51 -0700, alex_t
wrote: So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) I forgot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQZmXOEbkg |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, alex_t wrote: So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) Not me, but i know at least one lurker did. Lurker! me? Well, probably. Still, I will re-invigorate the Hammersmith Low Level Bus Station thread if the thing ever even vaguely looks like opening. There is also the minorly exciting news on TFL knocking everything behind my house down to build the new Hammersmith & City Line signaling centre, which I welcome. The blue glass hedgehog planned for the bottom of my road on the other TFL land is however evil and must be stopped. But I digress... I don't know if he'll post comments, but i'd bet my bottom dollar on photos appearing somewhere soon. There are indeed some photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nuttyxa...7602054147851/ The tour was very good. For one thing, it was easy to get to, starting from Ealing Common. If I'd known tickets could be got on the day I think I'd have asked a few others along, which probably would have made it all too crowded. I've only ever been on one heritage railway and tripped to Beamish so it was interesting to note just how many hard core railway fans were present. The tickets were rather nicely printed on photo paper and allocated me and my colleague any seat we wanted in Coach A. We sat at the back of the coach next to the guards panel. Amusingly despite numerous announcements a rather confused lady boarded our carriage and after noticing the slightly odd demographic asked sceptically if she was on the train to Ealing Broadway. The stock has a fair turn of speed, with the ride lively but helped enormously by the more giving less firm seats and we ran pretty much non-stop all the way to Rayners Lane from Ealing Common. We then reversed heading into town on the Met, switching to the Jubilee then stopping and reversing again at Charing Cross which was eerie and looking a little unloved. A particular highlight was being able to see out of the front (or rear) of the train as the drivers door was propped open. After that it was a straightforward run up to Stanmore where everyone detrained which a large number continuing for trips 2 & 3. I opted to have some lunch but wound up managing to hit Finchley Road on the way back just as the 1938 stock passed on a return journey back to Stanmore. All in all a great experience, and the only thing I'd have wished for would be to be able to go through Hammersmith or somewhere else more familiar. Also, I'd forgotten that the guards doors weren't interlocked with the motion of the train and so when we first set off with the door open my colleague found my momentary look of horror highly amusing. If anyone involved is reading this, many thanks for a great day out. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 16 Sep, 18:54, alex_t wrote:
So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) Full of foaming-at-the-mouth trainspotters, quite a few of which I suspect are frequenters of that awful District Dave's Forum. The actual tour was rather nice though. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
In message . com, BRB
Class 465 writes So, did anyone from this newsgroup attended the tour(s)? First impressions? :-) Full of foaming-at-the-mouth trainspotters, quite a few of which I suspect are frequenters of that awful District Dave's Forum. That's unfair - District Dave is a very nice chap; I often go drinking with him! -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 17 Sep, 19:53, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
That's unfair - District Dave is a very nice chap; I often go drinking with him! Pedant! I was writing about the forum not its owner... BRB Class 465. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
In message . com, BRB
Class 465 writes That's unfair - District Dave is a very nice chap; I often go drinking with him! Pedant! I was writing about the forum not its owner... Sorry, I'll take my tongue out of my cheek now ;) -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
Full of foaming-at-the-mouth trainspotters, quite a few of which I suspect are frequenters of that awful District Dave's Forum. Finally somebody said it! When I came to Ealing Common the first thing I saw on the platform was a significant number of typical trainspotters - you know, freaks'n'geeks in anoraks. It was rather sad proof of stereotypes... And before you reply, I want to explain - I'm not really into judging people around me, the only thing that is really worrying for me is how much I myself fit into this crowd. Overweight anorak with receding hair line, making photographs of everything - it really got me thinking... OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* - not for the "technical" aspect, just to see creepy darkness, you know. I spent about an hour in the driver's cab looking around, which was fantastic! (if anyone from event organizers will read this - THANK YOU SO MUCH!) But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! The actual tour was rather nice though. Indeed! |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:02:51 -0700, alex_t
wrote: OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* - not for the "technical" aspect, just to see creepy darkness, you know. I spent about an hour in the driver's cab looking around, which was fantastic! (if anyone from event organizers will read this - THANK YOU SO MUCH!) Oh the running tunnels are fun. Now what bits have I done in the cab - all the Victoria line including to the depot, Northern Line - Edgware - Kennington via Charing Cross and the City branch, Picc Line - Earls Ct - Acton Town (I still have the bumps on my head from the track quality and this was over 15 years ago), Met Line - Amersham - Baker St, District Line Richmond Branch, Circle Line - HSK - St James Park, Jubilee Line - Stratford - Waterloo including the crossover. Don't think I've done any of the Central Line, Bakerloo Line or East London Line. But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! Look you post to this group which means you are a train, bus, tube and tram loony. There are also special sub variants of ticketing and cycling loony. You do realise that you can never leave this group and that you are marked for life as a loony don't you? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
alex_t wrote:
OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* - not for the "technical" aspect, just to see creepy darkness, you know. I spent about an hour in the driver's cab looking around, which was fantastic! (if anyone from event organizers will read this - THANK YOU SO MUCH!) But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
John Rowland wrote:
alex_t wrote: OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* [snip] But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... Having watched at least one person follow their folder of specially printed LU track diagrams in preference to looking out of the window I may have to disagree! Still, each to their own. Or is there yet another designation for such folk? |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
"Alex Ingram" wrote in message .. . John Rowland wrote: alex_t wrote: OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* [snip] But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... Having watched at least one person follow their folder of specially printed LU track diagrams in preference to looking out of the window I may have to disagree! He was probably the man from the ministry making sure no-one saw the secret tunnels... Paul S |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:02:51 -0700, alex_t wrote: OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. [...] But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! Look you post to this group which means you are a train, bus, tube and tram loony. I resent that implication - i am *not* a bus loony! There are also special sub variants of ticketing and cycling loony. We also have specialist freight, boat, map (divided into geographic and diagrammatic), aerial photo, road and subterranea loonies. tom -- All we need now is a little energon and a lotta luck |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Alex Ingram wrote:
John Rowland wrote: alex_t wrote: OK, I can say to myself that I'm not really a trainspotter. I mean, I can appreciate nice wooden interior of the train, but the real goal of my participation was to have a glimpse at the running tunnels* [snip] But still - it is scary to realize such things about myself! It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... Having watched at least one person follow their folder of specially printed LU track diagrams in preference to looking out of the window I may have to disagree! My instant reaction to that was, "ooh, i want those". I mean, when you're in an unlit tunnel, how much does looking out of the window tell you? A good map is like a pair of X-ray specs! Or is there yet another designation for such folk? I don't know a specific term, but they come under the map loony (diagrammatic) classification. Mapspotters? Map nerds? You know, despite being one, i don't know what it's called. Whatever, for my bloods, here's a map of Springfield, from the Simpsons: http://www.mapofspringfield.com/spring_map.png tom -- All we need now is a little energon and a lotta luck |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
In article ,
Alex Ingram wrote: John Rowland wrote: It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... Having watched at least one person follow their folder of specially printed LU track diagrams in preference to looking out of the window I may have to disagree! Still, each to their own. Or is there yet another designation for such folk? There's a phenomenon known as microgricing, which is like track bashing but involves individual crossovers and platforms - preferably keeping track of the direction you were travelling and scoring it both ways or (for bays) for both arrival and departure :) Myself I still have a 1984 Baker. I might think about getting a new one if I still went out track-bashing, but there would be too many closed lines to ink in ! Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 9th Sep 2007) "The Internet, an ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
Oh the running tunnels are fun. Now what bits have I done in the cab - all the Victoria line including to the depot, Northern Line - Edgware - Kennington via Charing Cross and the City branch, Picc Line - Earls Ct - Acton Town (I still have the bumps on my head from the track quality and this was over 15 years ago), Met Line - Amersham - Baker St, District Line Richmond Branch, Circle Line - HSK - St James Park, Jubilee Line - Stratford - Waterloo including the crossover. Don't think I've done any of the Central Line, Bakerloo Line or East London Line. What can I say... LUCKY! I'm totally jealous now :-| Look you post to this group which means you are a train, bus, tube and tram loony. There are also special sub variants of ticketing and cycling loony. I'm just a tube tunnel loony, thank you very much! You do realise that you can never leave this group and that you are marked for life as a loony don't you? He-he, I don't care much about the loony label - I'm mostly concerned about the looks ;-) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
It's okay, you're just a trackbasher. Them trainspotters are the weird ones... Well, it's not exactly tracks... it is mostly about the tunnels, the darkness, and the age of it all. More like a history of the underground or something :-) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
"Nick Leverton" wrote There's a phenomenon known as microgricing There is indeed. I *invented* that word, and I was responsible for its first appearance in print - in an issue of Branch Line News (publ. Branch Line Society) a few years ago. , which is like track bashing but involves individual crossovers and platforms - preferably keeping track of the direction you were travelling and scoring it both ways or (for bays) for both arrival and departure :) I'm also one of the compilers of "Baywatch" (publ. Kentrail Enthusiasts Group). Myself I still have a 1984 Baker. I might think about getting a new one if I still went out track-bashing, but there would be too many closed lines to ink in ! I upgraded from Baker a long time ago. I was on the LU tours - I was the one who mentioned having seen all current LU passenger stock except 96663, one of the extra Jubilee Line cars. Sad really, but it's harmless. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
In article ,
John Salmon wrote: "Nick Leverton" wrote There's a phenomenon known as microgricing There is indeed. I *invented* that word, and I was responsible for its first appearance in print - in an issue of Branch Line News (publ. Branch Line Society) a few years ago. Hi John ! As a lurker on Gensheet myself, I knew you hung around in uk.r but wasn't sure offhand if you microgriced LU as well :-) I was on the LU tours - I was the one who mentioned having seen all current LU passenger stock except 96663, one of the extra Jubilee Line cars. Sad really, but it's harmless. Indeed, a pleasant diversion and vastly preferably to some of the other pursuits discussed in these froups ... Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 9th Sep 2007) "The Internet, an ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
In message . com,
alex_t writes Oh the running tunnels are fun. Now what bits have I done in the cab - all the Victoria line including to the depot, Northern Line - Edgware - Kennington via Charing Cross and the City branch, Picc Line - Earls Ct - Acton Town (I still have the bumps on my head from the track quality and this was over 15 years ago), Met Line - Amersham - Baker St, District Line Richmond Branch, Circle Line - HSK - St James Park, Jubilee Line - Stratford - Waterloo including the crossover. Don't think I've done any of the Central Line, Bakerloo Line or East London Line. What can I say... LUCKY! I'm totally jealous now :-| If Mr C. cared to dust off his cab pass, he could no doubt add to that list too! Look you post to this group which means you are a train, bus, tube and tram loony. There are also special sub variants of ticketing and cycling loony. I'm just a tube tunnel loony, thank you very much! The novelty wears off after a bit, but I can see what you mean. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:48:21 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote: In message . com, alex_t writes Oh the running tunnels are fun. Now what bits have I done in the cab - all the Victoria line including to the depot, Northern Line - Edgware - Kennington via Charing Cross and the City branch, Picc Line - Earls Ct - Acton Town (I still have the bumps on my head from the track quality and this was over 15 years ago), Met Line - Amersham - Baker St, District Line Richmond Branch, Circle Line - HSK - St James Park, Jubilee Line - Stratford - Waterloo including the crossover. Don't think I've done any of the Central Line, Bakerloo Line or East London Line. What can I say... LUCKY! I'm totally jealous now :-| A very small perk of the job. I'm sure I could probably get more cab rides but it takes time to organise and I'd certainly not make a direct approach to a driver without a cab pass. While many drivers are happy to have some company up front they are paid to concentrate on driving not be yapping to some stranger. If Mr C. cared to dust off his cab pass, he could no doubt add to that list too! What cab pass? I don't have one as I really cannot justify it as part of the day job. The above were done via a previous "last day" special run out, one organised trip I sorted for people on another newsgroup, on the staff preview of the JLE days before it opened for public service and last but no least bumping into a former apprentice who'd worked in our office but had made it to driver - he said "hop in". -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
What lines did this stock run on ?
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1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, "
wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? You mean 1938 stock in general? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I have no idea of the lines the stock used in the tours might have run on; possibly several. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sep 20, 3:37 pm, MIG wrote:
On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, " wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? You mean 1938 stock in general? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I have no idea of the lines the stock used in the tours might have run on; possibly several. so i may have rode them my first trip to london in 1966 |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sep 20, 8:51 pm, "
wrote: On Sep 20, 3:37 pm, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, " wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? You mean 1938 stock in general? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I have no idea of the lines the stock used in the tours might have run on; possibly several. so i may have rode them my first trip to london in 1966- By then I think they would have been covering the whole of the Northern and the Bakerloo, and there would have been a few on the Piccadilly. There wouldn't have been any on the East London Line yet. I forgot to mention that they would also have been running from Moorgate to Drayton Park in 1966, on what is now part of First Capital Connect. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, MIG wrote:
On Sep 20, 3:37 pm, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, " wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I forgot to mention that they would also have been running from Moorgate to Drayton Park in 1966, on what is now part of First Capital Connect. As seen on the strip map in this photo from the tour: http://flickr.com/photos/nuttyxander/1396357082/ Bigger he http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/...86b55a4e_o.jpg I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), and those were taken over by the construction of the Victoria line, but i assumed the line was re-plumbed into the GN mainline at the same time. I infer that that happened later on. This seems rather silly - having the line only go to Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern from King's Cross instead. Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? tom -- science fiction, old TV shows, sports, food, New York City topography, and golden age hiphop |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Sep 21, 1:43 am, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 3:37 pm, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, " wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I forgot to mention that they would also have been running from Moorgate to Drayton Park in 1966, on what is now part of First Capital Connect. As seen on the strip map in this photo from the tour: http://flickr.com/photos/nuttyxander/1396357082/ Bigger he http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/...86b55a4e_o.jpg I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), and those were taken over by the construction of the Victoria line, but i assumed the line was re-plumbed into the GN mainline at the same time. I infer that that happened later on. This seems rather silly - having the line only go to Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern from King's Cross instead. Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? Well, the thing is that there were empty stock movements between Drayton Park and Highgate via Finsbury Park, Crouch End etc till 1970 or so, so I'd think the link was there (this off the top of my head). |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
Tom Anderson wrote:
Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? There was a book called the 'northern line extensions' published in 1981 by the London Underground Railway Society showing the planned expansion from Finsbury Park to Stroud Green and Crouch End. It deals with the early plans and has photographs of Drayton Park in Tube owneship and as relaid for BR. It was originally part of an ambitious plan involving the 1938 tube stock interrupted by the war and ultimately never to see fruition even though signs and tunnels and stations were built. You would also have been able to travel from Alexandra Palace Via Finsbury Park to Moorgate. and out as far as Bushey Heath. The book says "When the 1938 stock was ordered a number of cars were designated as owned by L.N.E.R these being that companys share of operating the service to High Barnet and Edgware via Finchley. Each of these cars carried a plate "Property of L.N.E.R" which remained in place until refurbishment for the Bakerloo, or scrap circa 1973 There is a fiar amount of detail in this particular pamphlet about the 1938 stock but heres a pertinent paragraph (slightly compressed) talking about its introduction: "The Northern Line would be operated totally by 1938 stock. The Bakerloo would continue with Pre-1938 stock but would have eight new trains. The Northern City Line (Moorgate to Alexandra Palace) would be operated by both pre-1938 and 1938 stock. So that extra trains could be made up 1927 trailers were reserved for the Northern City Line but in any event went to Bakerloo by 1941. The central line would be wholly operated by ex nothern line pre-1938 stock, and in consequence there was a lot of spare pre-1938 stock stored in sidings and depots." mysteryflyer. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), Surely WW2 and a complete lack of money, rather than corporate politics? Paul |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 21 Sep, 08:59, MIG wrote:
This seems rather silly - having the line only go to Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern from King's Cross instead. Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? Well, the thing is that there were empty stock movements between Drayton Park and Highgate via Finsbury Park, Crouch End etc till 1970 or so, so I'd think the link was there (this off the top of my head). AIUI, there was always a single-track, single-lead link for ECS/depot usage, but the remodelling to create the current set of flyovers only happened as part of the King's Cross suburban electrification programme, with the civils work taking place from c1974 onwards. I guess it was lucky (in so much as these things can ever be lucky) that the line wasn't much use at the time of the Moorgate disaster, since that meant the train was carrying its seated capacity of 300ish people rather than its design capacity of 800ish... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 21 Sep, 01:43, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 3:37 pm, MIG wrote: On Sep 20, 8:07 pm, " wrote: What lines did this stock run on ? At various times, Northern, Piccadilly, Bakerloo and East London Line. Also, refurbished coaches on bits of the Central. The last line it ran on as part of a large everyday fleet was the Bakerloo, although I think a few trains ran more recently on the Northern to cover for shortages or something. I forgot to mention that they would also have been running from Moorgate to Drayton Park in 1966, on what is now part of First Capital Connect. As seen on the strip map in this photo from the tour: http://flickr.com/photos/nuttyxander/1396357082/ Bigger he http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/...86b55a4e_o.jpg I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), and those were taken over by the construction of the Victoria line, but i assumed the line was re-plumbed into the GN mainline at the same time. I infer that that happened later on. Correct. This seems rather silly - having the line only go to Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern from King's Cross instead. I've no idea how well loaded the Northern City line was when it was evicted from Finsbury Park and just ran Drayton Park to Moorgate. However I do remember reading a fairly detailed account of the Moorgate crash in 1975 which happened in the morning rush-hour, and it certainly gave the impression that the line was well used. Bear in mind that the line would have found a number of new passengers who would have started to make use of it from Highbury & Islington southwards when the Victoria line opened from Walthamstow Central to High & I in 1968 - I'd suggest the number of pax reaching it via this interchange may well have been substational. Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? The link from the NLL to the GN - the Canonbury Curve - has existed since 1875. See http://www.nlrhs.org.uk/history.html It carried a number of suburban trains from the GN down to Broad Street via the Canonbury Curve (between Finsbury Park and Canonbury) then down via the closed line (though shortly to be mostly reopened as part of the ELLX) from Dalston Junction to Broad Street. Some diesel trains continued on this route until the 1976 GN electrification, from whence customers could of course use direct GN trains that were routed through the Northern City tunnels to Moorgate (a stone's throw from Broad Street). I understand that the Canonbury Curve was singled at the time of electrification because the OHLE for two lines wouldn't have fitted in the tunnel on the curve otherwise, not without major work at least. Before the 1976 changes, there was nonetheless a single line link between the LU depot at Drayton Park (adjacent to the station) and the GN line at Finsbury Park, and this was used for LU rolling stock transfers. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, Paul Scott wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), Surely WW2 and a complete lack of money, rather than corporate politics? Since the line was opened in 1904, this seems unlikely. Clive tells all: http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/northern.html#GNCR You're getting confused between the GN&CR's plan to link the line to the GNR, which was blocked by the GNR before the line was event built, and LU's plan to link the line to the Edgware, Highgate & London Railway (part of the infamous Northern Heights scheme), which was indeed nobbled by WW2. It's poetic that the fate that was finally delivered is exactly the one originally planned. Shame that it took 71 years to be delivered! tom -- All we need now is Jesus the Lord, fine corn liquor and the courage to think the unthinkable. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, John B wrote:
On 21 Sep, 08:59, MIG wrote: Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? Well, the thing is that there were empty stock movements between Drayton Park and Highgate via Finsbury Park, Crouch End etc till 1970 or so, so I'd think the link was there (this off the top of my head). AIUI, there was always a single-track, single-lead link for ECS/depot usage, but the remodelling to create the current set of flyovers only happened as part of the King's Cross suburban electrification programme, with the civils work taking place from c1974 onwards. Aha. Any idea if the Canonbury Curve existed at that time? tom -- All we need now is Jesus the Lord, fine corn liquor and the courage to think the unthinkable. |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 21 Sep, 10:43, John B wrote:
On 21 Sep, 08:59, MIG wrote: This seems rather silly - having the line only go to Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern from King's Cross instead. Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? Well, the thing is that there were empty stock movements between Drayton Park and Highgate via Finsbury Park, Crouch End etc till 1970 or so, so I'd think the link was there (this off the top of my head). AIUI, there was always a single-track, single-lead link for ECS/depot usage, but the remodelling to create the current set of flyovers only happened as part of the King's Cross suburban electrification programme, with the civils work taking place from c1974 onwards. Just to be clear - I think part of Tom's question actually related to the Canonbury Curve line from the NLL to the GN. This was a double line until the 1976 GN electrification scheme , and apparently hosted diesel services from the GN to Broad Street up until that time (I can't say that the dates are precise - things may have changed a bit before '76). This Canonbury Curve line was used until fairly recently for 'one' railway ECS moves between the Hornsey depot and Hackney Downs/ Liverpool Street (via the NLL and new-ish Graham Road curve). But nonetheless thanks for the confirmation of the LU Drayton Park depot to GN single-lead link. One thing I've never been able to locate is exactly where are the blocked off tunnel portals north of Drayton Park are, i.e. the start of the disused tunnels that lead up to Finsbury Park. There is an interesting account of a visit down there on the Abandoned Stations website... http://www.pendar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Tube/ Drayton_Park_station.html ....which speaks of "passing through the single steel gate entrance" to gain access to the tunnels, but I've never been able to pin down where this entrance is, and indeed it's unclear whether that is just the entrance to one of the running tunnels or to both. I guess it was lucky (in so much as these things can ever be lucky) that the line wasn't much use at the time of the Moorgate disaster, since that meant the train was carrying its seated capacity of 300ish people rather than its design capacity of 800ish... Thanks for that. I have read a fairly horrendous account of the Moorgate disaster, yet if the train had been fully loaded it sounds like it could have been even worse. I have just found a webpage regarding the Moorgate disaster he http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvolvz Th quoted death toll on that page is 42, which conflicts with the BBC 'On This Day' article which gives the toll as 43 (maybe the difference is whether the driver was counted as not, as he may have committed suicide though no-one can know what really happened). The webpage on the disaster also says there were "more than seventy badly injured, of whom some subsequently died as a result of their injuries." BBC On This Day article: http://preview.tinyurl.com/354bb |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
On 21 Sep, 12:17, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, John B wrote: On 21 Sep, 08:59, MIG wrote: Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in, say, 1965? Well, the thing is that there were empty stock movements between Drayton Park and Highgate via Finsbury Park, Crouch End etc till 1970 or so, so I'd think the link was there (this off the top of my head). AIUI, there was always a single-track, single-lead link for ECS/depot usage, but the remodelling to create the current set of flyovers only happened as part of the King's Cross suburban electrification programme, with the civils work taking place from c1974 onwards. Aha. Any idea if the Canonbury Curve existed at that time? The Canonbury Curve opened in 1875: http://www.nlrhs.org.uk/history.html |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message .li... I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to Drayton Park; it originally terminated in underground platforms at Finsbury Park (having been planned to go further and then wrecked by corporate politics, as i'm sure we all know), Surely WW2 and a complete lack of money, rather than corporate politics? Since the line was opened in 1904, this seems unlikely. Clive tells all: http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/northern.html#GNCR You're getting confused between the GN&CR's plan to link the line to the GNR, which was blocked by the GNR before the line was event built, and LU's plan to link the line to the Edgware, Highgate & London Railway (part of the infamous Northern Heights scheme), which was indeed nobbled by WW2. You're right - I was indeed thinking of the latter... Paul |
1938 Stock Tube Tours
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